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to many pulls = low quality spice?

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Electro Monk

Electro Monk

Rising Star
i have been precipitate the products from the pulls of my two last extractions separately.

doing this i noticed that the first pull yielded me very bright, extremely potent spice, while the successive pulls got darker and darker and where MUCH less psychoactive.

of course, i am still very new to all this, and the darker color could be a result of less pure pulls - after all, in my first pulls i wont mind much if there is some nps left in my solution, while in the final pull i would try to get it all out.

in any case, i think i see a pattern here, and i do wonder if it actually hurts to pull to often.

can anyone of you with more experience give me some insight here? i am unsure how to do it optimal.

thank you!
 
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hey, thanks for your input shenmue :)
i think you are right with your possible reasons, however, i think most of them ca not be the reason for what i see.

i have used my naphta many times now. the first pull usually was the hottest (i do not re-heat between pulls). so if heat or recycling would be the reason, i would see it with the first pull, too.

i do not think i give it to little time to separate neither, i only pull when the nps layer is clear and fully separated.

total time could be a factor though. i sometimes have 24h between the first and the last pull.

still. its not (only) about the color. the product i get from later pulls also just does not seem to work as well.
 
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hm, but if whatever i pull there gets pulled by the nps in the first place, wont it get re-xed too?
i really do n0t think the problem is contamination with soup. i am quite careful and usually have very very little of that in my dish when i freeze it.

in any case, i will try that next time. lets hope it helps :)
 
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Electro Monk said:
hm, but if whatever i pull there gets pulled by the nps in the first place, wont it get re-xed too?
i really do n0t think the problem is contamination with soup. i am quite careful and usually have very very little of that in my dish when i freeze it.
Click to expand...

You lose the fats and other alkaloids that you don't want so your weight will go down a little bit. It's why people do it. Personally I do it with every extraction. Best of luck... :)
 
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I did not read all above posts, I just want to contribute with my setup:


I am always heating the Soup to the lower boiling range, which is currently 40°C (using Naphtha with 40-60°C Boiling Range, called *Petrol Ether*).

Now if I do 3 pulls, then the 3rd pull does not yield anything (Colour = nearly crystal clear).

The 1st pull yields 80% (Colour = brownish), while the second one yields 20% (Colour = orange).

Therefore any 3rd pull does not only not give any Spice, but also not any other stuff.

Also I combine the 1st and the 2nd (and also a 3rd, if I do one just to be sure).



Then after evaporation I throw in a very little Naphtha (like 50 ml) to that brownish remaining stuff and heat this up to boiling temp = 40 °C.

This will dissolve a lot (not everything, but you will repeat it and then get all) of the spice and the Naphtha will be only slightly yellowish.
Then I decant it and add a little more Naphtha (50 ml everytime) and repeat.

This will dissolve any pure Spice out of the brownish mixture and at least the 40-60-Naphtha will nearly only dissolve the Spice at that step.

I do this like 3-5 times and I combine the slightly yellowish Naphtha to evaporate nearly pure Spice. The residue which is left behind by that other stuff is very dark brown and partially oily. This is just waste which can be tossed.



Easy way for a pure product without any loss. Therefore I have to say that when heating while you pull from your soup you won't even pull anything after the 2nd or at least 3rd pull and you can purify it so easy and fast with just a little extra Naphtha.

A lot people tell only to heat the Naphtha SLIGHTLY otherwise you may pull to much waste. I ALWAYS heat to the maximum and get that waste out afterwards anyways. Everyone should do it like this ;D
 
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thanks for your feedback man!

yeah, i probably should do re-x, at least for the second and third pull.

and yet. with my last extraction i had the first and second pull crystallized separately.
both crystals where snow white after freezing. yet, the first pull was much more potent then the second pull.
it looks the same, but it does not kick the same.
ah well. i guess i should mix the pulls together. its not really an issue that some of my product is less potent, but it makes dosing much more difficult.
 
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If you recrystalize then it should be all very pure normally ... : O

I also do not freeze-precip that recrystallized stuff, as when using the 40/60 Naphtha you will only dissolve the spice nevertheless and nearly nothing else.

So what I do is always combine any pulls and let it evaporate, then throw the hot 40/60 Naphtha on it in multiple portions and unite that portions again, who will contain the complete spice (just make sure you make multiple *pulls* on your crude spice from the original pulls) and you can also just evaporate it.

Everything recrystallized in 1 step and it should be at maximum potency if it is white with just slightly yellowish touch. There are no impurities which are also white or at least no impurities which can be inside at a worthwhile number - or at least for all Bark I used - but I think this is a general thing. So white Spice should always kick ass! Just make sure to get everything out of your original crude pulls.
 
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I just still don't get, why people are evaporating the solvent? Why not salt with HCl, base with NaOH and do pulls/re-x with naptha/heptane? Solvent can be reused many times
 
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Well at least I don't do it because if you bought something like 10 L Naphtha it's only 5€ / liter so the price is not a matter.

Now if you pull with Naphtha it will also dissolve some crap all the time and as I have never done it before, I just assume that this will accumulate over time.

A *recovered* Naphtha will never be as clean as free one. And the solubility of Spice will be lower and lower the more other junk is loaded in the Solvent.

Well of course - now all people may say: Yeah but nevertheless it still works pretty awesome.
But on the other hand you also do not know how much spice was NOT pulled, as you cannot X-Ray your stuff. So well just IN THEORY, using a fresh solvent all the time will guarantee that you are definetly not losing any of your goodies by using Naphtha which is already (even if only a little) loaded with stuff.

But if people would have problems doing this, they would quit doing it on the other hand ...
 
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I prefer lab-grade chemicals, and there the price is higher. I would never use anything that is not lab-grade. Especially when evaporating and not doing re-x. I understand people can evap for test and see what's left, but still, I stay on the safe side.

Solvent (when reused) really keeps a lot of stuff between extractions, but it simply doesn't matter for initial extraction. It can be purified quite easily, but I am not doing it and there is not problem at all. Purity of the solvent is only important when doing freeze-precip. If we are planning to continue with A/B, no need to worry. And the fact there is something from previous extractions in fact doesn't have to cause lower solubility of dmt in the solvent. And people can always use as much solvent as they wish, because when not freeze-precipitating, there is no limit for it. I use 300ml toluene for 100g MHRB. This solvent is immediately available for next pull.

And how to know how much was not pulled? Well, with back-salting with HCl, when using precise titration (very simple), you know exactly how much you've pulled immediately when salting. There is no need to wait for evaporation or freeze-precipitation. And if you pulled nothing, there is (almost) nothing left.
 
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