Tobacco in Shamanism

[Aeternus]

Greetings fellow members.
I am wondering about the role of Tobacco in Shamanism and healing process.
Yesterday, on acid I have felt that Tobacco contains definitely a toxin but when it is used wisely in good manner approach it can purify the whole body. Now I would like to know how to use this plant for healing myself, not only to poison myself with cigs.
Shamans in the Amazon has been using it for decades in their healing techniques and spirit realm voyages. Considering myself as autodidact apprentice with the help of spirits, including good Nexus souls , I need to know its healing properties for try to benefit from them. The preparation techniques with dosage and some clues to the approach are the most important I think. My general stand on this subject is very respectful and responsible.
It would be great to reach some good and deep lectures at this topic. Please if you have a deeper insight than me into this realm post some information here, thank you.

 

[Aeternus]

The importance of tabacco was lost by the civilization of endless consumption and destruction.

 

[kerelsk]

I think what you ask is pretty controversial.

Tobacco can definitely be helpful during an experience launching you out too far. It can help you keep your focus on your ideas and where you want to go. Perhaps you will find it helpful in sending away nasty spirits/entities/vibes.

Smoking isn't the only way, a bit of homegrown tobacco taken buccally will work just as well.

As Dale Pendell says, it's a costly ally, and using it ritually doesn't give you any free pass on the cumulative health effects.
I still love it for being such a sacred plant :roll:

Check out this wonderful post from the ayahuasca forums

Tobacco - Ayahuasca Forums

 

[kerelsk]

Ah, and as long as there's a lot of links going around...

https://archive.org/details/Psychonautica052-53


Kathleen Harrison speaks about her experiences with the Mazatecs. There's a really excellent tidbit on tobacco somewhere in this talk.

 

[darklordsson]

I use tobacco regularly before I go to sleep, it gives me the bump im looking for, not to mention it calms me down at the end of the day. Its a good plant but all in moderation. I heard from somewhere apples cause cancer:? look what they are doing to them http://www.fastcoexist.com/3026165/...apples-created-the-modern-organic-food-market o well, I don't know anything anymore!!:shock:

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Considering tobacco is a medicine, stimulant, inebriant, and divinatory agent; roots in shamanism are well known. Tobacco corrects the reward system and has a stimulating/relaxing effect which can stimulate digestion, heart rate, energy level, focus, concentration and well-being. Shamans are known to blow tobacco to protect themselves and their people from evil spirits as well as purifying the air/repelling insects or animals. It also can propel us into realms of complete intoxication while under the experience of a psychedelic or cannabis. Or just by itself. Personally, I feel tobacco and cannabis fit very well and opens radical space when mixed with other entheogens. Even in moderation, tobacco is quite dangerous. Not recommended for long-term use.

Tobacco and Shamanism in South America

 

[Coja]

Don't discount the purported MAOI activity of tobacco either. Even when, years ago, I was a long term, chronic smoked nicotine addict, I would still get a substantial increase in effects from psychedelics, different classes of stimulants and even alcohol when I smoked a strong cig like an American Spirit.

 

[Koornut]

Tobacco spirals out of the top of the head, the spiral bends forward in front of the body towards the floor only to bend around onto itself; not quite a torus. The point where the out-spiral and in-spiral meet inside the body is exactly that, a point (Euclid). The semi-torus body can weave itself into experience, the point stays within you.
I think it's a shield, but not for deadly blows....just against mischief, for me anyway. But I'm addicted. Could be different for others. The shield works by colouring experience, so that which ismight not be all that. It started off as protection, against absurdity, but has become bloated and fat with the monotony of habit.

That's what cannabis told be when I tried quitting last time anyway.

 

[Intezam]

It makes sense to follow a 'dieta' when taking tobacco, for example to avoid meat, fish & lonnng piggg, if it is true that cooked meat contains even higher amounts of harmane, including (the meat of) the only other two legged, large brained, high metabolism reptilian ppl such as birds (chicken, turkey..etc)....:surprised

We've read, the reasons some western amazon shamans and curanderos use tobacco is: some keep a (tobacco-pacified) hereditary (flesh/smell eating) spirits in their phlegm within their bodays chest -- that spirit must be fed with spirit currency analog nutrient (here: tobacco smoke) constantly, which can then be used to send darts....etc (healing/protection/brujeria) or pacify others.

For example, we learned (while we was there) that the Onge and Jarawa tribes of the Andaman islands are really paranoid of frying or boiling meat or fish in the open (but they like meat a lot, specially dugong and turtle) so they cook it in a fully covered earth oven. Yet the terrifying moment arrives when the meat is done and the oven must be opened. THey then place a kid with a smouldering smoke torch nearby, to mask the smell and distract the flesh (harmane smell) hunting spirits.

Also, when they walk in their (scary) forests, the smallest member of the tribe walks ahead with a smoke torch to mask the fleshy flesh smell of their bodays.....:lol:

Many of these customs have fallen into disuse since tambaku paan, cheroot and khaini was intoduced to them.

If we are right in our assumption, then other harmalas can hardly be used as a substitute for harmane except perhaps harmaline (?) to some degree.However, unless one entraps a spirit (inside ones boday) they would be no need to actually inhale or ingest tobacco...

For example, one could also pacify, convert and make a spirit live inside an agate bead, much loike a bottle jinn (moar like bottle dzi)and blow smoke on it....(without inhaling) and then it be called a: Cintamani

 

[Psilociraptor]

This is one of the parts of shamanism I really don't jive with. I've always had a thing against cigarettes due to bad family history, but when given a snuff by a curandero thought what the hell. A month since starting to use it I had a tumor over my sinuses. Turned out benign after 8 months of waiting but I won't personally repeat that experience I won't discourage anyone from using appropriately though. I could see how it could aid a tough experience with aya, but I don't suggest making a habit of it personally. It's actually a big turn off for me because id love to get to the point in my life where I could administer aya ritualistically but I know these two are considered to go hand in hand

 

[travsha]

I dont know if snuff would cause a tumor in one month. There was actually a 30 year Swedish study on tobacco nasal snuff use by heavy habitual users.... And it showed "zero" health consequences. The group of daily heavy users had similar health to the control group after 30 years. Only noticeable difference was that their mucous had changed but the researchers couldnt see any health consequences of the mucous change. Interestingly enough - tobacco use in the amazon is associated with "magical" mucous they call "mariri."

People get tumors from all kinds of other things besides just tobacco - most people actually get multiple tumors throughout their life without even knowing because in most cases their body deals with it before it grows enough to be noticed. If a 30 year study of heavy users showed no ill health effects then I find it unlikely that 1 month of use caused a tumor - though I wouldnt rule it out since anything is possible... But maybe the tumor was caused by something else - I think that is also a possibility (a likely one). I think part of the reason most tobacco is so associated with cancer though is from the hundreds of additives they add to it - they put some crazy stuff in tobacco! (luckily no additives in the jungle tobacco or rape' snuff's!)

I have found when working with mapacho that it is probably the most helpful plant in any plant ceremony. Whether you are working with Ayahuasca, San Pedro or mushrooms it doesnt really matter.... Mapacho can offer protection, can cleanse or purge energies, can clear your thoughts, can focus your mind, can ground you or help you go deeper, can reduce or induce a purge, can wake you up and give you energy.... And it has its own spirit which can teach you many things! Very useful in ceremony.

I only work with mapacho in ceremony though - I never use it recreationally or habitually. I do work with both the smoke and with rape' snuff. Rape' is amazing - I think I have 11 different kinds right now and they all have their own unique personality.... If I smoke a little mapacho outside of ceremony I dont really enjoy it - it is a bit harsh and I can only handle a puff or two at most. But in ceremony I can smoke it non-stop and it doesnt seem to bother me at all. Even if the ceremony is only mapacho and no other plants - something about working with the spirit of the plant seems to change how it effects me.

I am actually looking into apprenticing with a tobaquero - maybe as soon as this coming August. Still working out the details, so I am not positive it is going to happen, but I think it is pretty likely. This guy only works with mapacho and heals people with just songs and blowing smoke - he is really effective too. Apprenticeship involves 14 weeks straight dieting in isolation where I will diet 13 trees plus mapacho. The first week is just mapacho and then each week after that is a new tree and mapacho so you do 13 trees for one week each and mapacho for 14 weeks straight. So I would be drinking a tobacco purgative every day for 14 weeks - but you only purge it the first week... Afterwards you keep it all inside you. Slightly dangerous, but he is real experienced and I am very healthy so I think it will go well. Hoping it works out and the details fall into place

 

[Psilociraptor]

I dont know if snuff would cause a tumor in one month. There was actually a 30 year Swedish study on tobacco nasal snuff use by heavy habitual users.... And it showed "zero" health consequences. The group of daily heavy users had similar health to the control group after 30 years. Only noticeable difference was that their mucous had changed but the researchers couldnt see any health consequences of the mucous change. Interestingly enough - tobacco use in the amazon is associated with "magical" mucous they call "mariri."

People get tumors from all kinds of other things besides just tobacco - most people actually get multiple tumors throughout their life without even knowing because in most cases their body deals with it before it grows enough to be noticed. If a 30 year study of heavy users showed no ill health effects then I find it unlikely that 1 month of use caused a tumor - though I wouldnt rule it out since anything is possible... But maybe the tumor was caused by something else - I think that is also a possibility (a likely one). I think part of the reason most tobacco is so associated with cancer though is from the hundreds of additives they add to it - they put some crazy stuff in tobacco! (luckily no additives in the jungle tobacco or rape' snuff's!)

I have found when working with mapacho that it is probably the most helpful plant in any plant ceremony. Whether you are working with Ayahuasca, San Pedro or mushrooms it doesnt really matter.... Mapacho can offer protection, can cleanse or purge energies, can clear your thoughts, can focus your mind, can ground you or help you go deeper, can reduce or induce a purge, can wake you up and give you energy.... And it has its own spirit which can teach you many things! Very useful in ceremony.

I only work with mapacho in ceremony though - I never use it recreationally or habitually. I do work with both the smoke and with rape' snuff. Rape' is amazing - I think I have 11 different kinds right now and they all have their own unique personality.... If I smoke a little mapacho outside of ceremony I dont really enjoy it - it is a bit harsh and I can only handle a puff or two at most. But in ceremony I can smoke it non-stop and it doesnt seem to bother me at all. Even if the ceremony is only mapacho and no other plants - something about working with the spirit of the plant seems to change how it effects me.

I am actually looking into apprenticing with a tobaquero - maybe as soon as this coming August. Still working out the details, so I am not positive it is going to happen, but I think it is pretty likely. This guy only works with mapacho and heals people with just songs and blowing smoke - he is really effective too. Apprenticeship involves 14 weeks straight dieting in isolation where I will diet 13 trees plus mapacho. The first week is just mapacho and then each week after that is a new tree and mapacho so you do 13 trees for one week each and mapacho for 14 weeks straight. So I would be drinking a tobacco purgative every day for 14 weeks - but you only purge it the first week... Afterwards you keep it all inside you. Slightly dangerous, but he is real experienced and I am very healthy so I think it will go well. Hoping it works out and the details fall into place

All i know is i had "good" health, used rape' and then had a knot the size of a gumball at the site of administration. I can't think of what else it could be unless it was contaminated. I acquired several other symptoms of inflammatory disease later that year so it's highly possible that I was already primed for such events by systemic low grade inflammation, but those are the sorts of things you can't always account for until it happens. The study you referred is certainly encouraging, but having studied a lot of health sciences it's little consolation. It's embarrassing how little we actually understand disease processes versus what we pretend to understand. And furthermore susceptibility is always changing across region and generation as new environmental and epigenetic variables come into play. While looking for the study you mentioned i stumbled into this Snuff-induced malignancy of the nasal vestibule: a case report - PubMed though i can't access the full text. It does discuss the lack of evidence for dangers, but also makes you wonder.

Anyways I'm not trying to convince anyone its dangerous or suggest not to use it or even trying to criticize shamanic practices. I just know that I personally would feel like a total fool if I messed with it and ever went through an experience like that again. I have no place for tobacco in my life so it's unfortunate that one of the most meaningful experiences in my life is so intertwined with it

 

[travsha]

Interesting study - thanks for sharing that!

I am sure there is some danger with tobacco in any form. I think there is some danger with almost anything in life.... One case of cancer caused by snuff in 2 centuries sounds like pretty good odds though - probably better odds then drinking alcohol or driving a car even.

Seems like snuff overall is pretty safe. I dont think everyone needs to use it at all though, we all have different paths. It is really nice stuff though - glad I was introduced to it last year.

 

[Psilociraptor]

Interesting study - thanks for sharing that!

I am sure there is some danger with tobacco in any form. I think there is some danger with almost anything in life.... One case of cancer caused by snuff in 2 centuries sounds like pretty good odds though - probably better odds then drinking alcohol or driving a car even.

Seems like snuff overall is pretty safe. I dont think everyone needs to use it at all though, we all have different paths. It is really nice stuff though - glad I was introduced to it last year.

Yeah i'm not going to lie i miss it :roll: I never knew something could be so flavorful in the nose