Transcending space - time

[Jon777]

Hi everybody, I am new to here but not Magick. I studied Crowley, performed Magick over 50 years ago.
This year something incredible happened to me. I want to share this with you. I have documented this in a presentation I just put up on u tube. It links, religion, science, and Magick.
Here is the link,

 

[northape]

I wouldn't believe too much in what AI (or LLM, which is a more appropriate name for what we have) spits out. Usually, people end up reaffirming their own ideas because of these algorithms. It'd be much more interesting to read a small essay written just by you, presenting these ideas in your own words. It's not like AI holds some supreme authority...

Further, I'd advise reading More Than Allegory: On Religious Myth, Truth and Belief by Bernardo Kastrup. It's a good, easy book about how people create meaning through myths and storytelling. I've no experience with magic, but to me it's one more story to give you some sense of control and meaning in life.

Welcome

 

[Jon777]

I understand cosmology, AI was to make the inforrmation inpartial. Besides AI, the rest are my words.

 

[teleccomythy]

The tone of how this is expressed is helpful !! Many people in todays and prior worlds will feel overstimulated in terms of calibrating where we are and how many disparate phenomena are possibly nearby. But reading along with this and feeling the ideas, none of which feel imposing or ideological, solves the overstimulation for me somehow and i think maybe it's your tone especially !!

Good true ideas presented neutrally, and i would say also, like cordially, are deeply good entheogens !! So, thank you for your works of learning and sharing this !!

 

[Jon777]

The tone of how this is expressed is helpful !! Many people in todays and prior worlds will feel overstimulated in terms of calibrating where we are and how many disparate phenomena are possibly nearby. But reading along with this and feeling the ideas, none of which feel imposing or ideological, solves the overstimulation for me somehow and i think maybe it's your tone especially !!

Good true ideas presented neutrally, and i would say also, like cordially, are deeply good entheogens !! So, thank you for your works of learning and sharing this !!

 

[Jon777]

Ty for your kind words, every word ture except I never rayed for rain lol

 

[teleccomythy]

Ok, here is something that may work with your own ideas and ways !!

If and or when, as part of this reality, distance and meaning are a gradient, similarly, if passion and hearing ( experiencing any senses including of the psyches conceptualities ) are a gradient; and, if possibility and " quantum error detection " are also the same phenomena as a gradient, and, if " rate of change of a system " and contentment are a joined gradient.

it's like distance becomes meaning after a certain yet immeasurable point ( but because of this it already was and is meaning and distance simultaneously and both phenomena are nested within eachother naturally and have their own realms as numinous nuances thereof )

 

[ommani]

I too have transcended space and time, on many occasions, yet am constantly running late haha

 

[redbird]

Further, I'd advise reading More Than Allegory: On Religious Myth, Truth and Belief by Bernardo Kastrup. It's a good, easy book about how people create meaning through myths and storytelling.

Can't remember why but I bought this book on a whim about a year ago and its sat on the shelf. Decided to pick it up after seeing this post. Only a chapter in so far but I can tell I am gonna like it. Thanks for the nudge

 

[northape]

"Indeed, the English word ‘myth’ derives from the Ancient Greek μῦθος (muthos): something said in words, like a story, speech or report. That we think of reality according to myths is even suggested by the Common Slavic derivative of the original Greek: мысль (mysl’), which means ‘thought’ or ‘idea.’ Therefore, the word ‘myth’ originally meant a story that evokes thought; not necessarily an untrue story, as it is often understood today. Throughout this book, I use the word ‘myth’ in this broader, original sense: myth is a story that implies a certain way of interpreting consensus reality so to derive meaning and affective charge from its images and interactions. As such, it can take many forms: fables, religions and folklore, but also formal philosophical systems and scientific theories. Clearly, a myth can be true or false without ceasing to be a myth."

- More Than Allegory: On Religious Myth, Truth and Belief by Bernardo Kastrup

One of his better works, if not the best, imo. We are all storytellers here, and it's very important for people to understand. Even after many strong psychedelic experiences, some still believe they are real and living in a real world. By that, I mean they never question their stories about the world, taking them as absolute truth. When you change your perspective and see that we are only dealing with myths here, it can be both disorienting and liberating. Direct experience of the world is still possible, but that's not how humans relate to it.

 

[redbird]

I like it because so far what I'm reading is a very grounded version of something I've been toying with, which is the idea that we do not have any unmediated experience of reality itself. I've been trying to avoid pure solipsism and so it will be interesting to see how this fits in with that.

 

[northape]

"Why Materialism Is Baloney" may be a better read about his analytic idealism. "More Than Allegory" is a more practical and down-to-earth book. I feel they go well together and cover like 90% of what Bernardo presents. Some of his books lean into an academic style of writing, while others are more into popular science.

I like his hypothesis, but it's just one more working theory for me. It has its place and fills quite a few holes in the mundane worldview we got from the culture, yet it's one more myth. I like Madhyamaka the best honestly, because it tries to dismantle any view, leaving you with nothing. From a practical standpoint, it feels much closer to reality. The Middle Way always leads you away from concepts and that limiting box we tend to create for ourselves. There is a nice video about it from Bernardo's Essentia Foundation:

 

[Jon777]

I took the advice of several people ty. I have done a 5 MINUTE utube video on Invocation only. My previous video - some of the science on Evocation was not correct so I took it done. This time the science of Invocation is ata deeper level - no AI.
Link,

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And also a 3 minute video on Evocation,

 

[bezevo]

done or down the vid goes around

i myself be DizzzzyLexxxica

 

[HumanOcean]

In my humble opinion, it's hubris and very presumptuous to re-define some pretty basic English terms, add quantum shenanigans to the definitions, and even worse, base the definitions themselves on some ramblings of delusional Crowley...

Not trying to attack you or anything, but as you said, you've read some book 6 times over 50 years and this is the outcome, the benefits and fruits? Youtube videos of you trying to course-correct Crowley? You came out with some new definitions because you were not satisfied with Crowley's ignorance appearing as wisdom?


Here's some google'd definitions according to Bardon's books:

Franz Bardon (1909–1958) was a Czech occultist, ceremonial magician, and author who defined magic not as supernatural intervention, but as a natural, universal science based on the mastery of elemental forces and the laws of Hermeticism

In the Hermetic system of Czech occultist Franz Bardon, invocation is a technique of magical self-identification where a practitioner projects their consciousness or embodies a specific energy, state of consciousness, or—in some interpretations—invokes themselves into an object or sphere to deepen their connection with that space.

Core Aspects of Bardon’s Approach
Self-Identification: Unlike traditional evocation (which summons a separate spiritual entity into an external space), invocation involves stepping into or merging with an energetic state or quality.
Prerequisites: Bardon stressed that high-level magical work requires strict foundational training (such as completing the practical steps of his first book, Initiation into Hermetics) to maintain mental and astral purity.
Distinction from Evocation: While evocation calls upon an intelligence or spirit to manifest externally, invocation focuses on internal alignment, mastery of the elements, and embodying specific cosmic or planetary forces.

In Franz Bardon's Hermetic system—detailed in his book The Practice of Magical Evocation—evocation is the practice of calling a spiritual entity to manifest outside the magician's own body and sphere of consciousness.

Key Elements of Bardon's Definition
Separation from the Magician: Unlike invocation (which draws a spirit's energy or consciousness inside the practitioner's body or aura), evocation keeps the entity and the magician strictly separate. Communication happens through external dialogue rather than inner blending.
External Manifestation: The spirit is projected to appear in a designated, prepared physical or astral focus outside the magician—such as a magic mirror, a triangle of manifestation, a fluid condenser, or a specific atmospheric space.
Requirement of Developed Senses: Bardon emphasizes that outer ritual words alone are insufficient. The magician must first develop high-level clairvoyance (astral sight) and clairaudience (astral hearing) to properly perceive, hear, and interact with the evoked entity.
Hierarchy and Safety: Bardon's system maps out a structured hierarchy of beings—beginning with elemental beings (gnomes, undines, sylphs, salamanders) and moving through planetary and sphere intelligences—stressing that the practitioner must master the moral and energetic discipline of his first book (Initiation into Hermetics) before attempting these external operations.

 

[HumanOcean]

Here's some Youtube Gemini's dumps, because I just woke up and haven't had coffee yet to write on my own.

The video's framing of "evocation" differs significantly from the Hermetic system established by Franz Bardon in his seminal work, The Practice of Magical Evocation. Below are the primary contradictions based on Bardon's teachings:

• Misinterpretation of Evocation (0:30-1:00): The video suggests evocation is a way to "create your own linear electromagnetic fields" for personal outcomes like daily tasks. In Bardon's system, evocation is the precise ritual act of calling forth a specific spiritual intelligence—an entity existing in the spheres—to manifest in a controlled space for communication or specific magical work. It is not a tool for managing mundane activities like "cooking or washing."
• Focus on "Electromagnetic Fields" (0:00-0:15, 2:10-2:30): The video attempts to reduce occult operations to modern physics terminology. While Bardon acknowledges that all matter is built upon the elements (Fire, Air, Water, Earth), he teaches that true magic requires the development of the magician's own mental, astral, and physical equilibrium (Step I of Initiation into Hermetics). Simply aiming to create fields is an externalized, mechanical view that ignores the essential internal development of the initiate.
• Disregard for Elemental Balance: The video treats evocation as a quick, results-oriented technique. Bardon explicitly warns that attempting any form of evocation or advanced magic without first achieving complete mastery over one's own character, elemental balance, and mental discipline is not only ineffective but potentially dangerous to the practitioner's psychological and spiritual stability.
• Misuse of Terminology: The video implies the goal is to control the "microcosm" for comfort (0:22). Bardon's work is dedicated to the purification of the soul and the realization of one's unity with the divine. The objective is never to bypass effort through the "instant" manifestation of results, but to achieve a higher state of consciousness and cosmic alignment.

The video attempts to bridge modern quantum mechanics and Hermetic magic. However, when measured against the rigorous, experiential system of Franz Bardon as detailed in Initiation into Hermetics, there are several fundamental conceptual mismatches.

• Misuse of "Quantum Tunneling": The video posits that human beings can "quantum tunnel" through invocation (3:53 - 4:10). In Bardon’s system, magic is based on mastery of the elements, the mental, astral, and physical planes, and the development of the Akasha. He does not frame magical travel or influence as a physical "tunneling" of the body, but rather as the projection of consciousness or the balancing of universal laws. Applying quantum terminology to spiritual practice is a modern metaphor that is absent from, and arguably contradicts, Bardon’s grounded, step-by-step methodology.
• Invocation vs. Evocation: The video conflates aspects of invocation with a scientific mechanism for changing outcomes. Bardon makes very strict distinctions between these processes. Invocation (welcoming a force into oneself) and evocation (calling a being into a space) require significant, long-term mastery of one's own character and elemental balance. Bardon warns heavily against "sorcery" or seeking shortcuts to change life outcomes without first undergoing deep internal transformation (self-realization).
• The Nature of "Higher Will": The video suggests that connecting to "Higher Will" acts like a magical switch to gain "special discoveries" (2:12 - 2:20). For Bardon, connecting to higher intelligence or divine providence is not a transaction for "outcomes" or "discoveries." It is the natural result of purification, moral development, and the ennoblement of one's character. Using magic for personal gain or "hacking" reality without this foundation is explicitly contrary to the spirit of Bardon's work.

In essence, Bardon teaches that true magic is a disciplined science of the self, not a way to bypass physical laws via quantum shortcuts.

The video's interpretation of the "microcosm" and "evocation" differs significantly from the rigorous Hermetic system defined by Franz Bardon in his seminal work, Initiation into Hermetics (IIH).

Defining the Microcosm (Bardon's View):In Bardon's teachings, the microcosm refers specifically to the human being—a reflection of the entire universe (the macrocosm). Bardon views the human entity as a complex structure of body, soul, and spirit, which must be systematically balanced and developed through the four elements (fire, water, air, and earth) and the Akasha principle (the quintessence). The objective of the practitioner is self-mastery and the attainment of higher consciousness through disciplined, step-by-step internal training, not merely the manipulation of external electromagnetic fields as the video suggests (0:22 - 0:38).

1. Materialist Reductionism: The video frames "evocation" and magical operation through a lens of modern physics (electromagnetic fields, particles). Bardon’s Practice of Magical Evocation treats these operations as specific interactions with intelligence entities or elemental beings in their respective planes, grounded in Hermetic laws, rather than as a technical, bio-electric engineering process.
2. Misinterpretation of Will: While Bardon emphasizes the power of the will, his system requires a foundation of moral integrity, elemental control, and mental stability established in Initiation into Hermetics (0:53 - 1:12). Simply using the will to create "higher" states without this foundational discipline—as the video implies—is not consistent with the safety and progression protocols Bardon established.
3. Scientific Analogy vs. Magical Reality: Bardon uses scientific analogies sparingly to explain the functions of the elements; however, he emphasizes that the practitioner must move from the intellectual understanding of these principles to direct experiential mastery. The video mistakes the language of science for the practice of magic, potentially leading to a superficial understanding that lacks the deep alchemical transformation Bardon demands.

Ultimately, Bardon's path is one of rigorous self-development, while the video suggests a more mechanical approach to magical results that risks stripping away the spiritual depth and ethical requirements essential to Hermetic practice.

 

[blig-blug]

I agree with the point you're making, but

I just woke up and haven't had coffee yet to write on my own.

Wait until you've had a coffee, then?

Thread 'Just A Little Friendly Posting Guidance: Thoughts on Long-form and LLM Dumps'

Jul 31, 2026

What follows is shared from the heart, without judgment or malcontent.

There has been a couple of trends that have popped up on the forum. This is meant to address these trends in a productive way and this is an open space for discourse about it.

LLM Dumps: Generally, not a good idea on this particular forum. It may be amenable to some others, but the standard here, generally, is to develop oneself by thinking for oneself. When I say generally not a good idea, I am not hinting at any negative ramifications other than a lack of interaction with a given LLM dump, because it's just that...

• Voidmatrix
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Announcements

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[northape]

I feel everything was covered in the previous thread about it. Why is this an announcement anyway?

 

[blig-blug]

I feel everything was covered in the previous thread about it. Why is this an announcement anyway?

You're right, I'll merge it. (edit: done)