Trying to improve Acacia information

[nen888]

..INDEX OF THIS THREAD [yellow links to relevant post]
note:
the main objectives of this thread, when it started in June 2011, were:
1) to improve the veracity of phytochemical info on Acacias worldwide
2) to encourage SUSTAINABLE use of Acacias, by growing
3) to find enough active species that i) legislation to ban becomes impractical and ....ii) a couple of species being presently harmed are less targeted, and 2-3 Endangered species are less vulnerable..
4) to evenly distribute and make accessible the information, to discourage the selling or buying of acacia dmt..(commodification=non-sustainability)
5) to bring about an understanding and caring for these lifeforms, and conservation for the future..

This Index is the Key to this Thread..use it to navigate...

Please note this index is only current up to approx. page 85
(Please also note that due to some contributors subsequently deleting their posts, in some cases page numbers will slightly change)

Acacia: (discussion or pic)
acuminata p1,3,7,9,11, p12,19,21, 22 ,25, twig, narrow-phyllode p37; varieties p85
adunca p17
albida (Faidherbia albida) p2,6,7,10,40, p.52
alpina p5, 27
angustissima p3,7,8,58,83
armillata p25
aroma p3, 20
aulocopcarpa p43
auriculiformis p6
bahiensis p81
baileyana p10
blakei p7
berlandieri p5,9, 12
binervata p5
burkittii p11,p23,61,67
caesia p7,14,24
caffra here
campechiana (Vachellia campechiana) p45
cardiophylla p9,20
caroleae p50
catechu (Khadira) p5,6,22,49,57,62,63,68,80
caven p4,5,18
chundra p49
cincinata p39,42
cohliacantha p45
colei p2,6,17,23, 98
complanata p10
concinnia p49
concurrens p17, 33,57
confusa p5, p10,11,p15, p21, 33 , 49, 72
constricta p8,11, here,69
coolgardiensis var. latoir p12, 29
cornigera p4,18, 34
cultriformis p4, 23,30, 87
cyclops p2, p3,4,9,12,18
dallachiana p5, 23
dealbata p19,20
decurrens p20
difformis p7,15
drepanolobium p72
dunnii p85
eburnea (india) p53
elata p3, 7,51,65
erioloba (Camel Thorn) p53,85
excelsa p25,39
falcata p5
farnensiana p4,p49,69,82,86
ferruginea 18, p62
fimbriata p15
flavescens p19, 80
floribunda p1,3,6,7, p9, p14, 16, 23, 24, 56, 79
giraffe p6,11
goldmanii p49
gregii p8,13,76,82
haematoxylon p60
hanburyana p17
harpophylla p10,50
hebeclada p45
heterophylla p14
holosericea p28,55
horrida p20
intsia p22, 49
implexa p23
johannis p25
jurema (A. olivensana/A. santossi Lewis) p4,5,6,9,33, photo p40
karroo p20,83
kingiana p62
koaia p5,14
laeta p3,6
leiocalyx p18, p.57
leprosa 'scarlet blaze' p39,45
leucophloea p49
ligulata 27
longifolia p1,3, p9,14,20,23, 84,87
longissima p1,11,26
mabellae p.49, 50
maidenii p1,2,3,8,9, p13,p22,p23,24, p29,43,44
macradenia p5,20,42
mangium p1,5,19,28
mearnsii p3,6,11,14,20,41,74
melanoxylon p5,23, 53 ,65,69,70
mellifera p21
modesta (pulahi0 p73
montis-utsi p45
mucronata p1,p11, 28, 29, 30, var. longifolia p.46, var. mucronata p.52, 56, var. dependens p56
multipinnata (senegalia) p65
multisiliqua p11,20,45
myrtifolia p16
neovernicosa p69
nerifolia p29
neurophylla p7,21,24,71
nilotica p11,19,29, 40, 53, 57,p60,83
nubica p7, 23,57,85,87
obtecta p20
obtusifolia p1,2,7,14,23,44,48; obtusifolia x maidenii p11,14
oerfota (see A. nubica)
oxycedrus p1,2,12 x sophorae p14, p37
penninervis p29, p.51, 63
phlebophylla p7,10
podalyriaefolia p15
polyacantha p3,4,5,10
polyphylla ('Paricá' )p39,p40, p56
pycnantha (golden wattle) p31
provinicialis p5,10,56,86
raddiana (A. tortillis sub.sp raddiana) p.54,57,65,71,82
redolens p26
retinodes p4,14,p15, 30, p51, 66, 69,71,86
riceana p62
richii p5,11,24
rigidula p5,9,44,75,85
riparia (senegalia) p81
roemeriana p9
saligna p5, 30
schaffneri p69
schotii p9
senegal p3,6,10,12
seyal p2,3
siberiana p3,6
simplicifolia (simplex) p5,p8,11, 32, 49
simsii p46
sophorae p56, 57
spirorbis p10, 49
suma 57,68,72
swazica p25
tenuiflora (Senegalia multipinnata) p65
texensis p9
tortillis p3, 30 ,42, 53,
tortuosa p8, p28,69
urophylla p80
vestita p28
victoriae p7,8,p18, &here, 60 (avicin) ,61,78
willardiana p82
xanthophloea p29
xiphophylla p39
yunnanensis p5,18,22

World Guide to Entheo-Acacias p.39 here

Acacia Analysis Thread
Acacia Identification Thread
African & middle-eastern acacias list p3,77
Albizzia julbrissin p5
American (USA) acacias p8, p27, p28; South America p4, p20.
Asian acacias (incl. India & the Himalayas) p5; p22, p49
'acacian' philosophy p83
Australian List p4;
avicin p60
betacarbolines p.43
botanical terms relevant to acacias here
Brazil acacias/mimosas p40, 81
Britain (Acacias growing in UK) p.51, 71
burning bush p2,6, 41, p54
Calliandras p3, p14,p16
changa p58
chemical signalling (between plants) p61
Chinese mythology p82
christianity (early) p.41, 56, 80
cinnamide p84
Citrus bergamot p40, p43
CSIRO acacia alkaloid screenings p15
cuttings (growing from) p12, 25,55
discoveries of the thread (to dec. 2012) p64
ethics & wild destruction p1, p8-9, p8, p23
Egypt (ancient) p30, 41, 42, 68, 76, 78, 83
European naturalized acacias p15
extraction p8, p22,25,38
fatty acids p57
flowers (constituents) p46, 58
galapagos islands p69
genetics and sex p.10, p16#315; genetic relationships p86
giraffes p11
Gnostics p.54
growing p19 ,p.55, p82 (#1635)
Hawaii p13
harmine p31
histamines p10, p10
India p5, p49, 53, 80, 83, 86
information theory p46
insect interaction p47
Islam and acacias p45, p.51, 82, 84, 85
Judaic tradition p45, 54, 71, 80
legislation to ban acacias (proposed) - Acacia Study Group submission against p15
Leucaena leucocephala p7#131,11,13#242
Los angeles p66
5-Methoxy-DMT (5Meo) in acacias p18,44
madagascar p63
Maasai (Masai) p26, p72, 83
masons p45,70,71,76,79
Mesquite (p12, p.44, 54, 57, 87,88
Mimosa biuncifera p75 M. pudica p.14,p49; M. scabrella p3
mistletoes on acacias p.16
native americans p12, 44, 58
NDMA receptor p82,84
NMT p53
n-methyltransferase enzyme p51
Oils p57
oral activity p.7, p.19, p26
Oxytropsis puberula p31
Pacific Island Acacias p4, p47 (new findings)
pegaline p84
phenethylamines (PEAs) p8 , p52
Paraserianthes lophantha p4#72,p6#110
Persia (ancient) p51
Persian Silk Tree (Albizzia jullibizin) p5
pollen (viability) p87
Prosopis (see Mesquite); P. cineraria 'shami' p86
rhinos p60
rhyzobium p44, 61,62
safety and risks p.12
salt form (of tryptamines) p22, 35
Samanea saman p65
seasonal variation p43
seed longterm viability p18
spermidine alkaloids p16, p47
sonora desert p45
Saudi Arabia p83
South & Central America p4, p20
sustainable harvesting p21
Talmud p45
Tara (green) p64
tars (amphoteric resins), gums; salts; acids p22
testing proceedures (TLC etc) p2, p9a, p9b, p11,p18, p.53
tree of Ténéré p82
tryptamine p26
UK p.51,71
Wikipedia acacia listings (worldwide) p.5

page links: #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12, #13, #14, #15, #16, #17,#18, #19, #20, #21, #22,
#23





……....................................................




..Original first post discusses abuse of certain Australian species and calls for more growing of and research into more common species (list of alternative species now later on)..damage to wild trees has been extremely harmful to ecosystems and survival of wild populations...
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[a1pha]

Excellent work! And, Thank You!!

This is exactly the type of work needed in light of the bad press MHRB is getting and the looming difficulty to acquire here in the US and other places.

I look forward to your contributions on the wiki.

 

[endlessness]

Hey, thanks a lot for the info!!!

If you want, feel free to do an introduction essay so we can properly welcome you to the community

See you around!

 

[nen888]

Hey, nice to 'meet' you two...when i get back from the bush i'll get into a beautifully nerdy essay...thanks for acknowledgment... there's a lot more info out there in multiple places..

 

[nen888]

...actually, now i've checked out the intro. essays section and the whole nexus out in more detail i must say i'm impressed after (believe it or not) staying away from the internet for near 9 years...(early fatigue & no community quite like this one)... my brief tour has uncovered the best nexus of 'devotees'& friendly characters i've seen on the net, & the only one i feel like participating in right now...got some plants to meet now, thanks all

 

[SoundOfFire]

I'm based in Oz too, so this thread is immensely helpful.. though will be more so when I start travelling again. I'm in Queensland atm, and to my knowledge, most of the wattle's known to contain DMT grow further south than where I'm at.. though I'll be heading north again soon and devoting some time to research while I'm working on some music, so I'll be sure to do some exploring and see what I can identify and maybe test while I'm up there.

Don't suppose you've heard of any useful acacia's that are common enough in the north that I should keep an eye out for?

 

[nen888]

i havent looked much at QLD acacias... i'll have a think

 

[nen888]

...having jolted my memory, i was referred to a north QLD species by an underground researcher i did not know well.
It was Acacia mangium (grown widely in Malaysia for timber). It has been crossed with A. auriculformis of which there is a lone ref. to 5meoDMT in the stem bark (Lycaeum). It is known for plants with 5meo in stems to have DMT instead in leaves or bark.
i do not know what the compostion or yields were or if(more than 1) bio-assays were done, but the fellow seemed excited.
taxonomically it is very similar to known tryptamine spp. & would be a very interesting candidate.
very fast growing...

 

[chocobeastie]

Well, it may be that mangium may be a good candidate for containing DMT, but until you talk to someone who acutally has extracted from it. It is just heresay.

I do hear heresay around QLD of people extracting DMT from different acacias that ony grow up in far north QLD, but am yet to confirm or find out what any of these species are.

It is not really so hard, Obtusifolia and Acuminata are your big hitters on the both sides of the coast and there are a couple of much rarer one's most leave alone, and a mostly dud species smug American/Europeans mention (Maidenii), and Floribunda on the east coast which people are starting to get onto.

You might get a tiny bit out of Longifolia when it is flowering and you may luck out with Sophorae, but that is about it. There are no other reliable common Acacia species I am aware of.

 

[nen888]

..the person told me they had bio-assayed it, that's all i know.
'hearsay' has led to the discovery of many more species than have been mentioned, these will eventually (i hope) get published
by various sources.

the main point i want to make is that wild plants are highly variable. You can sample the same species in different locations,
or even at different times of year and get different results. i assure you A. longifolia has been tested at academic level and found
to contain dmt at reasonably large am.(0.2-0.3%), but usually with other alkaloids. There should be a published reference to this in the
next few months.

an example of published chemical variability in wild australian plants is Duboisia myoporides (Corkword) which contains exclusively
scopolamine in some regions, nor-nicotine(anabasine) in others (get u ref asap, but search it out if in hurry) ..A. maidenii, obtusifolia and longifolia vary tremendously from place to place...the internet and published data on acacia chemistry is hopelessly & verifiably out of date.

i'd like to see more people with the resources go out and conduct more research. the book is not written yet on this subject.

i predict another 15-30 tryptamine of interest species of acacia will emerge into public info. in the next 5 years or so (from multiple sources).

the more research, the more will be clarified...that's why i'm trying to get the discussion going, not create hearsay.

thanks for pointing out that some species are too rare to be reasonably or practically utilized.
hope others out there have more to add to our conjecture on this topic.

ps.get the right strain of A. maidenii and it's definatly not a dud! Were the CSIRO wrong? up to 0.6% in the Leaves in one! Also has small ammounts betacarobline. Good strain of maidenii the original "drugs>deoxy.org post c.1992" which kicked the whole ball rolling. i concede some strains are almost devoid of alkaloid, however argue that these are finely taxonomically differing from the active strains.

 

[nen888]

..thanks chocobeastle for getting in on the topic, by the way..

i just feel compelled at this point to say i don't think anyone should be wildharvesting (except in small amounts for true research). the plants used in the work i describe elsewhere were roadside in small town 'suburbia'. Seeds of confirmed active strains have been avail. of all relevant species from multiple reliable vendors for years..

while some trees (like obtusifolia) are actually very slow growing in the wild (they need rain), in loving cultivation they are fast and eager to please.
Most acacias in cultivation can reach 5-6ft in 3-4years. They also work with rhizobial bacteria to improve nitrogen absorbtion in the soil for all plants around them.
they're like friends for me...

would-be wild-harvesters should note that a 1ft diamter, 20ft 'mother' seed tree (obtusifolia) at measured growth rates can be over 100 years old. it is a much longer lived species than longifolia for example. the death or ill health (by taking bark) of such trees seriously affects the future wild gene population.

let us researchers, voyagers & plants all work together in lasting symbiosis.

 

[nen888]

..Just to try & clarify this thread a bit from this end of the branch:

Here is a list of Confirmed Active Tryptamine Acacias in Austr. So Far
(defined as having had 20+ approx. multi-subject bio-assay/&or other very strong evidence)

A. acuminata, A. floribunda, A.longifolia(var), A.longifolia var. sophorae, A.maidenii(coastal), A. mucronta, A. obtusifolia, A. oxycedrus, A. phlebophylla (very rare, single location), A. victoriae
4 strong contenders requiring a few more tests/bio-assays are: A. alpinia, A. longissima, A. colei &
A. cyclops (net reports).
1 (from N. NSW) has been omitted for now as it is super-rare (200-300 known adult trees). it can hopefully hide in the forest of the many more spp. that willturn up soon in the public domain, and when more of it has been cultivated

so that makes 10 (+1) [& prob.14(+1)] 4 now.
all have yeilded (relatively) safe and obtainable amounts of alkaloids (such as dmt), though may vary greatly in content from published results.

if i've left anything out anyone please feel free to update this thread...

[i have seen an internal uni-chemistry list, circulated c.1995, in which 0.5% alkaloid was found in the bark of A. pycnantha (Golden Wattle - Australia's national floral emblem). this document contained many interesting findings. a subsequent test found 0.18%. alkaloid (re-agent dmt postive). that's all i know about that for now,
but hope it gets followed up (in more than 1 attempt).] so, for now, 'hearsay' ..]

..thank you to the plant teachers for what they have given us...

PS this list being updated as new info. comes in...

[EDIT: the list of confirmed tryptamine acacias grew considerably by p.5; A. elata has had 1 positive and 1 negative result so far]

 

[nen888]

for those who read this thread a while back..

couple of photos of typical A. mucronta...

 

[nen888]

..oh, 4 Queenslanders, an update,

Acacia mangium reported as "psychoactive" (Rätsch, Christian. Enzyklopädie der psychoaktiven Pflanzen, Botanik, Ethnopharmakologie und Anwendungen, 7. Auflage. AT Verlag, 2004, 941 Seiten. ISBN 3855025703), making that 2 positive activity accounts i know so far (though no tests of alkaloid/s yet)...

 

[chocobeastie]

hey, yes I know about longifolia, and have found the same alkaloid content levels, but the QUALITY of the DMT is just not the same, re: what I am talking of in the changa thread. As far as I am concerned, the tree just doesn't have the chutzpah of the other trees. No offence, some may like it, but others I have talked to agree!

Myself and other people are doing this research, it is not easy to do, often fruitless. You should get into it!

I have only discovered two species.

I have a friend who has discovered a couple of dozen species.

wild harvesting should not be an issue, especially after storms there are plenty of big, old trees that have fallen down

 

[chocobeastie]

oh, I have long been aware that longissima has been active, as you can taste it in the bark! But have never found any of those big trees!

Most maidenii strains seem to be non-active, or have 0.1% DMT in them. I know there are some strains that are active, and there may well be sub-species of this tree, as they can look very different area to area. I have heard of some strains having 0.6% DMT in the phyllodes.

Originally, people discovered Obtusifolia because they thought it was Maidenii!

 

[nen888]

..thank you for your comments,

probably the best way to help more gain stable access is, when people have found active strains, to attempt to find it's seeding time & collect,
especially just from single, unique trees. this is essentially how 'cultivar' strains in horticulure begin.

the more time i've spent in wild forests, the less i've wanted to interfere with them..
a fallen tree here or there, sure, but it's a possible larger scale scenario that bothers me. animals/fungi/birds need fallen/dead trees too...

thank you for your brief research reports. i hope that, when you or your friend are ready, you will share some of your findings here.
i chose this forum to start sharing mine to 1) pool all the info. for researchers world wide & 2) try to make available as many new species names to the
nexus to provide as many possible options.
this is not only in the interests of diversity, but will make attempts by agencies to prohibit acacias (a ridiculous & self defeating act) more ludicrous.

as i said earlier in thread, i estimate 15-30 are already known (but the information not released), with perhaps another 20 highly likely candidates.

respect all trees...

 

[nen888]

..keeping the info. flowing,

i can confirm from observing several bio-assays, and reports by another researcher, the succesful tryptamine activity of
Acacia oxycedrus (Vic.,NSW,SA) (2 varieties + x-breeds with longifolia & mucronata)
was hoping to have a HPLC or GCMS before announcing, but there are delays. Good yields, effects good but composition unknown.
There may be a bit of variation, but the sampled plants are 'good'. Good enough that, despite no GCMS, i'm prepared to put
it on the list..

another researcher has vouched for Acacia blakei (SE Qld,NSW,possibly Vic.) (not real common, needs propogation).i don't have details.

i know of one Australian bi-pinnate species (fern-leaf kind) that appears to contain tryptamines, but work is in progress...

(ps A. mucronata photos now a few posts back..)

 

[bluntmuffin]

Thanks very much for this research. Now if only you guys could crossbreed some nicer plants... hehehe.

 

[bfly]

I've semi-recently become extremely interested in DMT but cant seem to figure out exactly what specific acacias to look for in SE-QLD, for quality extraction results.
Any tips?

Cheers

Also, Nice to meet you all! Have spent endless hours browsing, great place!