Trying to improve Acacia information

[phyllode]

Black Rhino grazing Acacia haematoxylon.

 

[nen888]

^..nice to see you phyllode! haha..and thank you

Parshvik C...one compound almost nothing has been biologically researched on re role in plants is DMT..
but we can learn about plant physiology and dynamics from other compounds (gotta find that book)

..A. mearnsii <recent experiment thread link..
and aussies, have updated Australian Tryptamine & Psychoactive Acacias list p.4..43 species (with more around the corner), a separate side-list now for phenethylamine species..will keep tweaking away at these lists over time..
to know what's consistent/reliable, read this thread and the nexus in general..
as said a few times, if DMT is the objective, then A. acuminata is the most recommended of australian species..
3-4 years of tree growing patience will yield a lot the desired alkaloid..

my own interests also cover medicinal use (many kinds of compound) of acacias..and the spirit..

be well all..

Diceros bicornis grazing acacia, Tanzania..

 

[cave paintings]

^..hey cave paintings, it is very interesting..
i don't quite have the time to cover all this sort of stuff right now, but there has been a lot of work done in biology on chemical signalling between plants..this can be via roots/soil, or as gaseous release into the air, absorbed through foilage..while plants do not have anything like animal receptors/neurons, they are none the less able to transmit signals to eachother..a wide range of chemicals can be both released and absorbed through leaves..
the level of information contained in these signals is not understood..
i will dig out a great plant biology book i have somewhere when i can, which has some good references..
.

Yes I wasn't sure if I was quite 'asking the right questions' about it.. real interesting stuff. The interplay between rhizobium and the legumes in nodule formation is very cool too. Funny, the gaseous signaling seems so olfactory in nature, something never attributed to our green friends. My mind starts musing and bumbling about interplays between our pheromones (as well as other animals) and plants. To what extent do each of our respective signals affect each other I wonder.

.. back to acacias. I see more every day, I can predict where many will be before I have been there, and still new ones surprise me, species I have never seen will announce their presences in resplendent bloom as one did yesterday... didn't have my camera :| . Time and circumstances probably will not permit extractions for a bit unfortunately, but want you all to know that data will be gathered on some of our SW-USA friends when possible as I recognize the importance. Until then.. reading.. always reading.

good vibes and appreciation to all

 

[Seldom]

cavepaintings i like your words :d just thinking about it i spose where neurons' functions are endogenous, pheromones are like gaseous strategies which plants have for huge variety of purposes, Acacia cornigera for eg. supposedly to ward off cattle foraging, others mimicking chemical signals of insects, something interesting BBC News - Acacia plant controls ants with chemical

nen, wira, trout, or torsten, or anyone, i live in a place with a good number of acacias listed in CSIRO and other screenings as containing PEA substances. .. don't have to know a lot of chemistry to really wonder what kind of peas are in these plants? .. some seem according to data to have amounts comparable to trichocereus cacti, has anyone heard of extractions or brew + maoi-style experiments with PEA acacias? i have access through uni to toxicology studies of the area which include a number of the species i would look at, this will probably be what i look into for the next while, and i have free time, so any hints or advice are welcome




huge appreciation to contributors, have genuine admiration for your expertise

 

[Major Tom]

RE : Rhizobium bacteria for acacias . I have never introduced this bacteria [ via soil inoculation from established acacias ?? ] , but nevertheless , all of my acacias are thriving without doing so . Perhaps this bacteria is already present in the potting mix I use [ made by my local nursery ] , and in the soil I transplant into ? ? . What I am noticing is that the pot size - even for seedlings and small plants - seems to influence the growth rates . Usually A. Maidenii grows the fastest for me , but before Xmas and heading off interstate for a month , I sowed some A . Maidenii , Floribunda , and Acuminata [ narrow phyllode type ] . I ran out of smallish seedling pots and sowed the Acuminata seeds into largish [ 10 inch ] pots . On returning home I was astonished to see the Acuminatas were more than twice the size of the other species - about 30 cm [ 12 inches ] high at est 6 - 7 weeks old . The only explanation for this that I can think of is the larger pot size has contributed to the growth rate [ ? ]. While away the seedlings were watered daily by a neighbor , and the pots were sitting in saucers , so I doubt that water is a factor ... . [ BTW , if any Nexus folk out there would like some free Acacia or Mimosa Hostilis seeds , PM me for details , but please , unless you live in a warm climate forget about Mimosa ... ]

 

[nen888]

cave paintings..i have a little specific acacia chemical signalling (between plants info), which i'll post when i can..

certainly, Pheromones affect behaviour and carry information between each other, other species, and even other kingdoms..such as their symbiot allies, the Rhyzobium..

Studies of chemical signaling between plants and bacteria in the past have been largely confined to two models: (a) the rhizobial-legume symbiotic association and (b) pathogenesis between agrobacteria and their host plants. Recent studies are beginning to provide evidence that several plant-associated bacteria undergo chemical signaling with the plant host via low molecular weight compounds. Plant-produced compounds interact with bacterial regulatory proteins that affect gene expression.

[pre publication abstract of Chemical Signaling between Plants and Plant-Pathogenic Bacteria
Annual Review of Phytopathology, Vittorio Venturi 2013]

technically a pheromone is only a chemical signal that is used between two members of the same species. If it’s a signal between members of different species it’s called an allochemical (even if it’s the exact same signal being used for a different purpose). These words don’t refer to different types or structures of molecules, only to their function. Allochemicals are broken down in to functional groups of allomones, kairomones, and synomones,

Everybody Stinks: Chemical Signaling in the Undergrowth

Most of us know that as far as sense of smell goes, humans are one of the worst mammals around. Compared to many other species our noses are nearly, well, blind. We can usually only detect odors if…

oleaeuropea.wordpress.com

regarding phenethylamines (see PEAs p8) Seldom, i have not focused on or done much research on these species as PEAs can have some toxicity compared with tryptamines..so i don't know a lot..see also p52..the principal pea's found in acacias are phenethylamine, N-methyl-2-phenethylamine and hordenine..

and Major Tom, i wonder about rhyzobium blowing about in the wind, but certainly in reasonably intact native environments they are common and only too happy to get in with local acacias..you wrote:

What I am noticing is that the pot size - even for seedlings and small plants - seems to influence the growth rates .

..i think you are right here..keeping an acacia in a smaller pot for longer periods will retard it's root growth rates and hence overall growth rates..if the roots sense greater depth they'll head down..
also, potting mix should not be too dense..softer allows small roots to push through faster..

once acacias are happy they will grow very fast and reward and astonish you..perhaps even signal to you..
.

 

[Gowpen]

Anyone had any first hand success with Acacia Pycnantha?
Do people think I should attempt to find some and try an extraction?
Have tried so many failed extractions on local sources (Cyclops, Victoriae, Phalaris grass) that I am losing faith
Trying to find anything which will result in spice (that is within an hour or so drive) so I do not have to order online....but alas, my location seems to be terrible :/.
Any help would be most helpful.

Shane, A. Burkittii grows wild in South Aus. Have you tried that ?
On-line link to a pdf.

 

[nen888]

^..nice one Gowpen and hi..a very comprehensive treatment of the species and it's varieties indeed..

he'll still have a bit of a drive, the closest a. burkitti grows naturally to adelaide is 190km..

Acacia burkitti (A. acuminata subsp. burkittii) is, however, in inland australia one of the most common acacias on the continent..
distribution shown below..

but also, i had another look at the photo what shanedudddy2 posted as possible a. victoriae on p12 of the Acacia Identification Thread..and, i was dubious at the time, and i am fairly convinced it is not A. victoriae..
reasons 1) the phyllodes in photo don't have a very prominent central mid vein, and are glaucous; 2) the peduncles (join flower balls to stem) in victoriae are defined as paired..none of the peduncles in the photo are paired; and 3) the flowers are not as abundant as most specimens of A. victoriae i have seen..
it looks a lot more like A. murrayana..so i'm still not personally convinced that you did get a negative from victoriae..

at the end of the day sourcing as developed as possible young trees from nurseries, and growing them up fast with attention is the best way to go..get on to it!

A. burkitti (known as Fine Leaf Jam Tree) range, then phyllode/flower;
then A. victoriae (another look)

 

[shanedudddy2]

Gowpen, Burkitti is approximately a 4 hour drive each way to the nearest Burkitti locations, and last time I went, picked a very similar plant to Burkitti, but appears to be something different...so I would hate to do that again.
I`ll try a different source/location for victoriae.
I was near sure that it was victoriae, based on reasons that I can not disclose (due to source discussion rules).
Although, it does look different to the picture you posted, so it's likely you are correct.
I`m going to try and get 3 samples, one of victoriae, pycantha and retinodes.
It seems this is the best options I have that aren't 8 hr roundtrip minimum :/
I wish I lived in Vic, NSW or WA haha.

 

[nen888]

..burkitti really is acuminata..it's the more common form, but shares 1% or more DMT qualities with several other acuminata varieties..

shaneduddddy2 wrote:

I wish I lived in Vic, NSW or WA haha.

..actually the top tryptamine-acacia state in aus seems to be becoming Queensland, if you look carefully at the species..a lot there turned up lately..
also queenslanders seem to top the active aussies in the thread too for some reason..
must be the bright new hope state or something..
.

 

[shanedudddy2]

Nice, the 2 Queensland facts could be related.
I don't think I`ve seen another South Aussie post anything, at least no success stories.

I have a few pictures to post in the identification thread for confirmation of a Cyclops (tree, not one-eyed beast man) and clarification as to what the Victoriae look-a-like (at least to me) is/was
Hoping I get something out of this. Draining me mentally, and physically (walking around parks and bushes is tiring stuff at times).

 

[---ooo0ooo---]

In my very limited experience with this whole world, I've come to learn, (or be told), that you get out of it what you are prepared to put in. My eyes now see landscapes completely differently -- reverentially -- and the appreciation of the natural flora and fauna around me has become far more important than mere crass exploitation.

I say enjoy the process and ignore the outcome as it will make the destination far more palatable when you finally arrive...

0.

 

[Major Tom]

Hi oooOooo - my experience is similar to your perception of Nature . Although always concerned for the bush , and appalled at what we we do to it , entheogens seem to have altered my attitude somehow . This is difficult to put into actual words , but like yourself , I feel a deep respect nowadays for Nature .... Recently while travelling from Brisbane to Melbourne by air , I was gob-smacked at the extent of land clearing below - apart from a few mountainous areas , it is all paddocks . The only bush remaining seems to be a tiny bit of hilly country ...

 

[---ooo0ooo---]

I know what you mean MT...

Each year I drive south for holidays at the beach. Each year more and more farmland turns into housing estates. When you consider those farms were once verdant bush it is damn scary.

This little adventure that I'm on has recently seen me crawling through all the suburban parks and remnant bushland in my local council area in metropolitan Sydney. While it is amazing that anything has survived this same process, it is incredibly cool to see what has actually survived.

Given that development favours flat ground, what we're left with here are all the fascinating gullies and ravines that weren't feasible for building. These little arks are amazing eco-systems and time capsules that serve as a glimpse back into former times. Yes, there's a lot of degradation and weed infestation, but it is astounding what still remains - magnificent towering gums, sugar gliders, water dragons... Just makes you go "Wow!" when you actually stop to drink it all in.

To me - having now been gifted eyes to drink in that landscape is the strangest, yet most wonderful gift of this journey.

0.

 

[acacian]

yeah i too feel that entheogens have profoundly developed my appreciation love and respect for nature. I feel much more obliged these days to be of service to it and nurture its beauty. i can't even kill mosquitos anymore! a lot of my deep journeys have reminded me that everything is conscious and the experiences of other animals and plants no matter how small or seemingly insignificant is just as much a a god given right as our own

hope your all well by the way been a bit dormant from this thread lately. Haven't really been testing many species as of late and mainly just taking photos. some interesting acacias on the last page if anyone would like some acacian eye candy Acacia photo gallery - The Ethnobotanical Garden - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[nen888]

^..really enjoying and concurring with the last few perspectives..thanks everyone..

..on whether or not Rhyzobium boost growth rates, below is attached a photo of 8 week-old Acacia koa seedlings..the ones on the right were inoculated with Rhyzobium, the ones one the left (noticeably smaller and paler) weren't..

 

[Major Tom]

nen - does this Rhizobium bacteria occur world - wide , or is it an Australian organism ?

 

[shanedudddy2]

That looks a pretty startling difference O_O

 

[nen888]

..yeah shanedaudddy2...to help you with the ID of A. victoriae, i have attached 2 key ID images, of seed close up (mottled) and also phyllode (central prominent nerve) ..it is very common in inland australia..but has a few very similar relatives forming a 'complex'..see ID thread
>

 

[Borris]

Rhyzobium is fascinating; tangible proof for the unbelievers of natures inter-connectivity. Also great pic...tells a thousand words

FYI I decided to follow up on the neglected Acacia Falcata since the storms downed a stand alone 3m mature specimen and will post results shortly.

PS. I didn't want to deviate this thread off topic but I couldn't help notice one of the two active ingredients in the #1 over the counter pre-workout powders (DS Craze) being consumed by millions and rapidly being abused as a common party starter. Notice PEA phenethylamine in the list as the active ingredient other than caffeine and proprietary blend; Just one of Acacias smorgasboard of offerings. seems anybody who goes to a gym is on this stuff now, including me and is raving about it like a junkie:shock::want:

It gives you boundless energy and good mood and is the closest thing to legal Amphetamine I have seen this side of Bath Salts.