Trying to improve Acacia information

[nen888]

..good ID prognosis acacian..
and morgatron the first photo looks like a form of A. maidenii..remember mucronate means coming abruptly to a sharp point..(see Botanical Terms relevant to Acacias here)

but hey morgatron..even without full membership you can post in the Acacia Identification Thread..it was created to stop this thread bloating out, and to allow the thread to focus on entheogenic, historical and ecological issues (& spiritual)

..A. obliquinervia is worth experimenting with..it is related to three known tryptamine species - A. provincialis (formerly A. retinodes var. retinodes) which nexian yatiqiri extracted very interesting crystals from in 2011,
A. penninervis (which cave paintings got something like nmt out of in the US last year) and, the most promising, A. mabellae, revealed to us by timeloop last year..

below, Acacia penninervis..common on the east coast of australia, and naturalised in the USA..has two forms, var. penninervis and var. longiracemosa..and then Acacia provincialis..

 

[nen888]

..i think with the increasing awareness of Acacias, and Phalaris, we are reaching a new era of plant-based entheogen understanding..and that is an appreciation as much of the plant than of the specific molecule..

a few times i and others have emphasised that Acacia is not simply a one-stop hub for DMT..it's a complex and varying biological world..the seasonal and genetic variation of acacias (like Phalaris) means that it is more in the hands of nature (or the plant) what kind of experiential base is provided..i.e more NMT, or betacarbolines etc..

..as a culture evolves (paralleling indigenous finer understanding of plants) we start to see also a visual language present in nature..the more experienced acacia observer starts to recognise visual cues which suggest what may or may not be in the plant..

importantly, though, a relationship (which is what some develop with plant 'allies' ) is a big jump from a commodity on demand culture..the plant may not be high in alkaloids when you want it..but perhaps there's a reason for that not easily seen on the surface..

..we can see from ancient history a common theme with regards to the Acacia..they are teachers of the highest forms of consciousness, whether as Al-Uzza (the female Allah), Thoth (teacher of language) or Vedic mind-weapons, they are linked traditionally with the evolution and further learning of humans..(all of this is mentioned in the thread, and will be expanded on in future talks the Acacia Book)
indeed acacias have only evolved in their most common tryptamine forms (phyllinodous) in the past 20 million years, as if pre-empting animals with sufficiently developed nervous systems..

..whatever tryptamines' purposes are (if such a term could be used) we can at least say that, when a human extracts and ingests them from a tree, there is a transfer of information..
what we do with that information is up to us..


below, Acacia growing next to the Sabaean Dam of Marib, Yemen, (c2000BC) mentioned in the Quran

 

[SpiceMind]

I love reading nen updates. It's hard for me to put into words how much I appreciate this beautiful tree but nen you do it so well.

Keep the historical and today's new information comeing acacians!!
Much love and respect -spiceM

 

[The Meddling Monk]

Small amount familiar indole smelling gunk from A/B vinegar/naptha A. haematoxylon leaf (glaucous). I think branch bark would be next step. Wish I had collected A. giraffae as well. Wish I had more time. But I think the giraffes are getting something (and Rhinos!).
(Grey Camel Thorn)

Long live the endless Acacia Odyssey!

 

[nen888]

..shucks..SpiceMind..you are kind..
thankyou and be well..

and thanks for the report Monk..any idea what %?
.

this is a list of entheogenic acacias discovered via and reported in this thread (still in progress) to the end of 2012..this does not include the new species reported from a few sources..

A. carollae - (E. Australia) reported by nen, dmt in phyllodes. note not common.

A. concurrens - (E. Australia) reported by Seldom to have been bioassayed by several people, potent tryptamine content.

A. cyclops - (naturalised South Africa, aus. native) found by PrimalWisdom to contain tryptamines, bioassay suggest possible NMT/DMT..follow-up suggests variability..

A. leiocalyx - (E. Australia) found by Borris, nen, and SpiceSailor to be good yield DMT/tryptamines (nen found 0.6% in phyllodes/branch).

A. longissima - (E. australia) not common, verified and assayed by Seldom.

A. mabellae - (E. Australia) found by timeloop to contain reasonable amounts assumed DMT/NMT in phyllodes, bioassayed.

A. mearnsii - (E. Australia) - found 1 occasion victoria high DMT content by chocobeastie, negative 2nd test; material colleted by nen in victoria found DMT positive.

A. mucronata - (E. Australia) while earlier reported in Voogelbreinder, it was at the nexus that it's harmine content was found (as well as tryptamines) and bioassay reported in thread (nen). Also acacian bioassay of var. mucronta.

A. penninervis - (naturalised USA, aus. native) found by cavepaintings to contain NMT or similar in phyllode by assay.

A. provincialis - (naturalised Sth America, native aus.) found by yatiqiri to yield crystals with unique tryptamine-like effects.

A. tortuosa - (ID tentative, native South America) - found by yatiqiri to contain entheogenic alkaloids.

also A. nilotica - (Africa) reported on nexus by Phlux to have positive DMT yield bark.
A. longifolia variety confirmed by WAGE to contain DMT.
A. acuminata proved to be consistent in high DMT content,
and there were several A. floribunda confirmations of around 0.4-0.5% tryptamines phyllodes
.

see you soon, acacians..

 

[nen888]

^..a few pages back Borris found new growth, broader phyllodes positive, as well as moisture/rain variation..and used the taste-technique to ascertain presence of alkaloids..i always do this before going further with a plant..should be bitter, the bitterer the better..if it's not bitter, they won't be in there..the level of variation i do not know, but 3 +ve finds is good so far..
is hard to pick leiocalyx from concurrens (of which i am less certain with only 1 second-hand report)

i haven't tried CASA/FASI..would be worth trying on known positive material..
good to hear from you pirateb0b..

 

[Kimi]

i dont know if i can post pic for ID purpose.. i have just discovered i cant inbox members even.. how long does that go for?

 

[nen888]

..on phone so brief, you can with seedling post in the acacia identification thread, link on prev page..the more info you share gains full membership..

 

[SpiceMind]

Hello wattle heads!

I would like to report that I have been testing diffrent strains of acacia longifolia var sophorae, and so far after testing light and dark phyllode varieties near the coast I can say that alkaloids are very minimal. .01% (could be a late summer thing but weather has been good ect)..

I love saphorea so the next stage of testing bigins immediately.. I believe that I have found a natural population that I believe to be the purer strain of sophorae, In other words I defiantly wouldn't put long folia in front of its name... Phyllodes are more like alpina/phleblapholia.. It's on the coast.. This next stage of testing might review some interesting alkaloid differences between the two. Both strains tested and untested would be classified as acacia longifolia var sophorae but yeah very interesting..

Any one been researching these species? They truly are beautiful trees!!

acacia longifolia var sophorae:

Kimi! Yeah you have to be a full member to MSG people which I forgot, but welcome!! If you have a camera go around and do some acacia photography to add to "acacians acacia and mimosa photo album"(you might find a new species to extract or something that has never been tested), or join in to conversation and add your knowledge to become a member. But foremost show respect to the plants do not believe the dmt extraction teks that ask you to strip 2kg of bark from a tree, I mean wtf? Phyllodes(leaves) and small twigs will show the way. If you need anything.. Ask away.

Peace and love. Spice.

 

[acacian]

I haven't tested sophorae before, though I've been meaning to for a while. I've noticed as well there is a difference in their appearance and some do look quite close to phlebophylla and alpina - i've also noticed there are some strains of sophorae with very pure white flowers which I thought coud be a sign - i posted one up a while back which I thought looked interesting here's a link. If I have time when i'm back in melbourne I might test some as they are everywhere on the coastline - my main priority will be mucronata subs. mucronata though to see if i can confirm a level of consistency

xylene layer has separated on the acacia baileyana extraction.. will post results soon when its evapped. its very yellow- though there was a lot of sediment in there which could have something to do with it. 225g fresh phyllode as well as 70g dry branch bark was used.

be well guys

 

[Major Tom]

Hi SpiceMind , I too have studied A . Sophorae , with results similar to yours - good luck with the new variety .... But , it is not all bad news - in many areas of Victorian coastal Sophorae forest areas , where the acacias grow amongst Banksias , Ti-trees , etc , in the cooler wet months : Autumn - Spring , there also grows a really potent psilocybe mushroom [ Subs ? ] on the leaf litter . I really love those coastal forests ; and am amazed that the fungi can occur so close to the sea ...

 

[Kimi]

oh gosh i dont know that i will met the criteria. & my worker is not keen to go on forum or even relay anything to me. bugger.. but this one is bloody good i hear the constant chant oh Om namah Shivya as it gets progressively faster.. i dont want to make my maker mad. i cant even post a pic of the wattle tree that is used.. they are paranoid.. >.< between that & the pages cautiousness god help me.. can i contact people though other methods.. without breakin rules..?

 

[Kimi]

am on south coast of NSW

 

[SpiceMind]

Thanks for the feedback guys, Acacian i like your new avatar pic! and i can't wait to hear about your results! i will let you all know how i go over the next month with testing..

i still feel something from sophorae and there are plenty of populations around.. so who knows.

Major tom!! i know what you mean about costal sub's.. yes (Psilocybe subaeruginosa). i really want to post a pic of a beautiful coastal sub patch i found! sadly i just checked the pic and i missed the acacias in the background, but you see the coastal plants!.. i find them to be extremely potent and look very very unique and beautiful compared to parks/bush sub's!
Fungi research is another passion of mine, before i found DMT and my new love, tryptamine containing plants of Aus.. And thanks for the info nen we will talk soon!


Dr. Marta Guervos of the Image Processing Unit, Scientific-Technical Facilities, University of Oviedo in Asturias, Spain.. photographed a magnified ACACIA DEALBATA (Silver wattle tree), anther. (Plant structure containing the pollen). using the confocal method with autofluorescence.

very cool..

Hey kimi, give the FAQ a read and some other info on the nexus to find out what you need to know, unfortunately the only way to msg is by full membership.. or in chat i think.. anyway i WILL be talking to you soon. btw you def can upload photos.. search it and you will find answers

P&L S.M

 

[nen888]

..Kimi, you can attach pics and post in the Acacia ID Thread..tick attach files post when posting reply, and then choose/upload..attaching, while only visible to members, is the safest way for both security and being sure they don't vanish..

..and beautiful and amazing acacia image SpiceMind, thank you..

with regards to A. sophorae, i distinguish between two forms..the most common is the more prostrate, often sand dune dwelling form..i would agree c.0.1% alkaloid or less..the other form i call the 'upright form' (though this may be soil/condition related) ..it is essentially more tree-like than shrubby in stature, with thick main trunk and thicker bark texture..it's phyllodes are what differentiate it from forms of A. longifolia..this variety, seasonally, has up to 0.4-5% in branch bark..but i only know of it in NSW..earlier chocobeastie mentioned a known good yielding form in Victoria which was introduced from NSW..

..and after a PM exchange with SpiceMind, i feel again i want to draw attention to the primary aims of this thread, particularly as it has evolved..
the quest to categorise and confirm phytochemical findings of tryptamines in acacias is in part generated by a need to preserve these trees in the environment..and encourage growing..
but more importantly, it's about the Trees and their spiritual, cultural and environmental significance..the trees are not some DMT factory meant for humans to exploit like they have most resources..they are living beings with deep roots and long histories..
the spiritual symbol/metaphor of 'the Tree' (of life, of knowledge) is ancient..as is the respecting of Acacias..
to reduce this simply to: 'here's another DMT containing plant..' is to both deny ourselves a higher level of awareness/integration and to not really see what's in front of us..connection
i hope SpiceMind doesn't mind me quoting from their PM, but this is a great quote:

I don't want this thread to be "here are dmt containing plants now go cut them down and get what we need". It really does need a spiritual side to it, people have been living side by side with these plants.. Both contain the same molicules internally, when mixed we see giah.. You see you and this earth for what it is.. Once people see that maybe we can live closer to these plants.. Not seen as a commodity..if there are dmt containing acacias everywhere the mass production of dmt and so called spiritual dealers is no longer required.. I also think once a lot more species are reviewed hopefully some hidden...information can come forward, that would have a major impact on governments and wanting to ban these plants..

..it is true that there is hidden knowledge of these trees..part of moving forward is to re-build our modern culture into one which can both appreciate and not harm such knowledge..

this is the path the Trees have put me (and others here) on..
it is happening..

acacian's photo gallery is not a catalogue of DMT containing plants (though many are in there)
..it's a glimpse of the awe and majesty that the feeling acacia student experiences in the presence of these beings and their habitats..

this thread is pro-Tree..
.

.

 

[Major Tom]

Hi SpiceMind - although this is off subject slightly , I am not at all certain that the coastal Sophorae forest subs actually are subs at all . My suspicion is that they are in fact P . Azureacens - the species that mysteriously appeared in Nth West USA coastal areas a decade or so ago . I first picked them around 1971 [ yes , I am old timer indeed ] . My guess is that American surfers possibly carried the spores back with them .... [ I once wrote to Stamets of this hypothesis , but he never replied ... ] .

 

[SpiceMind]

Nen, I don't mind the quote at all. I think it should be said every few pages actually.. We need to push for sustainable use of plants/growing plants, respect of difrent alkaloid cointaining plants and the research behind them..eg: confusa is no "better" of a plant than say obutsifolia.. They just have diffrent alkaloid content ect, thinking like that, who knows what may be found in these plants. :thumb_up:

Major Tom! Thank you for that, you would be correct that most the coastal subs do resemble P.Azuraecens! that's a fascinating concept of how they made there way over, I live on the beach myself and I know the serfers around here do like there mushys I'm going to pm you a pic of my coastal subs for you to check out.They are beautiful. Also i think about 3 spieces I come across in S/E Aus I would classify diffrent from P.subaeruginosa although main stream wouldn't(let alone mention it in a research book..)Again more reserch needs to be donei. It's a truly fascinating subject. we can call the mix of Aus P. Aruraencens/P. subeariginosa a "P. Majorspice" Haha anyway..PRO TREE!

Peace.sm

 

[nen888]

..the history and significance of the Acacia, and what it can teach, is well beyond DMT..

here is a good little summary of the goddess Tara in Tibetan and Nepalese Buddhist tradition..

The Sanskrit root tar- means "to cross [over]" meaning that this deity serves as a bridge. But it also can mean "tree," "particularly," and is also related to "star" and "pupil of the eye." Shri Tara Devi is, to Hindus, the second of ten Mahavidyas according to a Hindu tantra that associates her to the Tibetan Buddhist Tara tradition.

..we know, from earlier references in the thread, that the root sanskrit word for Acacia catechu is Rha..
from the above discussion:

One of her most widely diffused tantric manuals is known as Tara of the Acacia Grove, ie. the Khadira Forest, and also, Nepal is well known for its dark green rain forest.

..a bridge to the imperishable core..vajra..

i encourage those with an interest in buddhism or the vedas to meditate on the sacred tree
and the green tara..
there will be more scope to discuss this and other old traditions in the future..

the Green Tara..

and attached, A. catechu, known these days as Khayar खयर् in Nepal, where these images are from..

 

[Kimi]

thanks for help.. i have seen a few varieties close by never tested them. one in particular ive been curious about the other is a sure thing i believe.. ah yes i see the attach file i will have to upload it to pc then to here as it's on my phone. Thanks for baring with me.. im pretty much a newbie to forums..

 

[Kimi]

Acacia obtusifolia arond here seems to be spot on