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UK/London Trancers take note.

Migrated topic.
My work gives me relevant experience of this and it is extremely unlikely that one night, or even a weekend of partying will permanently damage these trees. Fatal damage is more often caused by regular construction traffic, or building / storing heavy stuff like building materials on the root system.

Party on guilt free.
Mobilise against a party to protect the trees? Are you serious? Give me a break. If you want to pretect trees go and protest at people building roads / new housing estates etc. etc. not a few psy trancers having fun.
 
1664 said:
My work gives me relevant experience of this and it is extremely unlikely that one night, or even a weekend of partying will permanently damage these trees. Fatal damage is more often caused by regular construction traffic, or building / storing heavy stuff like building materials on the root system.

Party on guilt free.
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1664, are you saying that when that psytrance party in a forest was stopped because the forest wardens said that the trees could be damaged and even killed by the event, that the wardens were lying? I can't find the video any more but I assure you it happened and was on Youtube. I am not making any judgement either way on the truth of what they said, all I'm saying is based on how stringent the rules are for construction work, I find their complaint plausible.

I am genuinely interested to know the effects of such events on trees. Please could you tell me how you are qualified to give that advice, what profession are you? I'm a construction professional so I work with arboriculturalists on most projects. Could you elaborate on the technical detail of your advice please, and reference the relevent standards? That would be really helpful and would let me know what amount of weight to give to your opinion.

1664 said:
Mobilise against a party to protect the trees? Are you serious? Give me a break. If you want to pretect trees go and protest at people building roads / new housing estates etc. etc. not a few psy trancers having fun.
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I have not made any judgements either way, I have just said that this needs to be looked into. What I do judge against is people not researching properly and just making lazy assumptions in order to justify whatever it is they want to do.

Actually, people building roads and housing estates do have to adhere to the rules that I mentioned, anything legal is required to comply! And this is not any old group of trees, this is obviously a sacred space that someone has put a lot of effort into cultivating.

There is the question of who made that sacred space. It truly is beautiful. I want to make something like this myself one day, and it is an endeavour that takes decades to mature. Imagine if you bought some land and slowly cultivated over years a truly sacred space such as this, watching it grow slowy as you get older and older... then suddenly a bunch of people party on it and damage or kill the trees irreparably. How would you feel? I would be heartbroken. So, you owe it to whoever cultivated this sacred space to not be lazy and make sure the trees will not be harmed.

It's carelessness like this that causes the prejudice against hippies as selfish hypocrites, prejudice that affects all of us. All I'm saying is, people should do their research properly to make sure. MAybe this is all a fuss about nothing... or maybe it isn't.
 
wtf? I spin psytrance and I've never heard of any of those guys.

@ohyaco: much as I like you you're not getting anywhere arguing that psytrance forest parties damage trees more than construction work. no way no how! lol
 
shoe said:
@ohyaco: much as I like you you're not getting anywhere arguing that psytrance forest parties damage trees more than construction work. no way no how! lol
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Haha I never said more than! Or even that it definitely does. I might have to make enquiries myself now to end this matter.
 
shoe said:
wtf? I spin psytrance and I've never heard of any of those guys.
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Well technically they all produce darkpsy, im surprised though that you have never heard of any of them.

If you would like a few albums gimme a shout.
 
ohayoco, I have seen that video as well. It was a free party in a forest that got broken up. All the kids got guilt tripped about damaging the trees and went home. If I remember rightly, there was some kind of delicate or susceptible tree to root damage, so they may not have just been trying to get the smelly hippies off their land, so you do have a point.

I used to work as a ground worker, landscaper and general builder. I am not a professional arborist, but we did get professional advice from them when working on big jobs. From what I learned from those days, it is digging through root systems, piling up soil on roots, or using heavy plant machinery near them that damages them. We used to set up fences and occasionaly temporary roads to limit damage to the trees, but this was to protect from (up to) 13 ton plant machinery over a period of weeks!! I just don't see how a few people walking & dancing around for 12 hours comes anywhere near that level of sustained pressure.

Anyways, you could be right, but I don't tink you should worry about it. Turn up at the party and see if you can move them on if you like. 😉
 
So does anyone have any info on weather this event is still on? Im wondering if any of the artists are able to get to london with the suspension of all flights still in place.
 
If we are at it, I always wondered what the folks living in a forest (birds, deers, etc.) think about psytrance...

I somehow doubt they like it.

(Interesting, this theme closely connects to a post I made in ms. manic_minxx's topic this morning... Bridging the gap between the aliens and earthly, human, natural life as we know it... Trying to wake up, to bring in the alien element without fucking with life... The same problem in a different costume.)
 
gammagore said:
So does anyone have any info on weather this event is still on? Im wondering if any of the artists are able to get to london with the suspension of all flights still in place.
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Yeah it's well on.

It's all being set up as we speak and if the artists who were billed to play can't make it due to the air travel inconveniences, a plan B lineup has been anounced:

Drumatic
Electrypnose
karash
JellyHeads
Wicked Hayo

Tis a pretty good plan B if you ask me, though fingers crossed for Derango :)
 
Arboricultural Association said:
Do parties damage trees? Well simplistically, yes. However the degree of damage and its long term effects are many and varied.

The damage that will have a lasting and in many ways hidden effect is that of soil compaction. Tree roots live in the top 600mm of the soil generally with the majority of the fine feeding and absorptive roots in the upper regions of that. The feeding roots develop a symbiotic relationship with mycorrhizal fungi that help the process. These are fragile fungi which rely on the natural humus, leaf litter etc in the forest floor to survive. Both the roots and the fungi need sufficient oxygen in the soil to respire etc. Compaction through feet, vehicles etc can damage soil structure to the degree that the open spaces in the soils are removed causing root death and tree decline. This may only be apparent after several growing seasons. Kew Gardens suffers from this and spend a considerable amount of time and money carrying out ground decompaction and soil structure improvements. Clay soils are damaged more easily than sandy soils.

Physical damage to trees and roots is more visible but may be less damaging in the long term. Trees will heal minor superficial damage with no lasting effects but larger scars and wounds may take time and allow decay to colonise. Fires can cause physical harm to both the trunks and roots through both physical contact and transferred heat causing death of affected parts. Obviously there are more tangible issues of forest ecosystem damage through litter, noise etc but these can be transient and generally have no lasting effects if cleared up and are not regular. Significant regular noise and vibration can cause badgers to abandon setts and any young that might be in them.
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Reply from the Arboricultural Association. They say parties do damage trees. A psytrance rave sounds to me far worse for soil compaction than the relatively sparse foot traffic at Kew Gardens. Ever been to Kew Gardens? It's enormous and there aren't many people wandering around.

So, it seems obvious that the ethical thing to do is to hold parties in fields, not forests. Unless you own the forest and are as the owner 'entitled' to destroy it just as a farmer is 'entitled' to harvest his crops.
 
Well this area was privately owned and the party had permission from the landownder so... all good. Anyway the trees were happy enough about it. They told me so :)

Awesome party by the way.
 
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