Unpleasant trips after large Methallylescaline (MAL) dose

[frequencyelevation]

Hello everyone - not sure the best place to post this or even the best way to describe what I've been going through, but heres my best attempt. I'm looking for any insight on what I've been experiencing

Two years ago I had what i'd call a relatively traumatic high dose mushroom trip followed by a few day-long psychosis as a result of what i experienced during the trip. Cold, dark, apocalyptic, prison planet/zoo, alien, robotic/advanced technology vibes, simulation-y, and almost evil.

Up until this point, high dose mushrooms were the most beautiful, blissful, euphoric experiences of my life, each and every one, which were probably close to 15, albeit within a short timespan. In hindsight, very short - too, short. Before the "incident", the trips just seemed like heat seeking missiles for my childhood and adult trauma, with each trip honing in on different trauma areas. It was pretty amazing considering I've been in and out of therapy for close to 20 years at that point without making much progress.

Unfortunately, nearly every high dose tryptamine trip since then has resulted in the same "bad trip" experience, but without the days long psychosis afterwards, as I am able to bounce back to reality relatively quickly (~1-2 hours), so it's now more of a "wtf, why can't i trip normally anymore" annoyance compounded with this visceral curiosity on what the heck is going on.

Right before these "bad trips" started, I took Methallylescaline (MAL) for the 1st time, and I ended up taking way too much, I believe the dose was 120mg, which is almost double the recommended dose (I got bad dosage information combined with me not doing enough research) . It felt like my brain was frying like an egg for 8-10 hours. I also had lingering COVID during that MAL experience, essentially abusing my brain heavily in a very short timespan.

A few days after the MAL "overdose" I took mushrooms and received some type of communication from the mushroom/subconscious that I need to take some neuroprotective meds for my brain, then the trip suddenly stopped - this was about 45 minutes into the trip. Not having too much plant medicine experience at this point, I was very confused that the trip just turned off like that. I took a bunch of ALA and some other neuroprotectors. Everything seemed fine.

A couple of weeks later I took another high dose mushroom trip (yes, way, way too much mushrooms, very obvious to me now, but definitely seemed like a great idea at the time - it was just attacking so much trauma I thought why the hell not, what could go wrong?). The trip started out great, in fact, it felt so uniquely different than all my other trips that I got excited that I was experiencing something different than my typical trips. Entities I've never seen before appeared in a way that felt more real than usual, then this Hebrew/alien-esque gold language poured out of the entity's mouth. I was in awe, in a positive, fun, "holy crap I can't believe this is happening" way. Then the trip turned on me in a way that's hard to describe, but it turned almost schizophrenic - evil, simulation vibes, I felt like a prisoner stuck in some type of human zoo. Two or three what I believe to be mantids or "greys" were hovering above me as this was going on.

This experience freaked me out for the next week. I took 4-6 months off from psychedelics before trying another high dose mushroom trip. The same "bad trip" happened. This went on until the present. It happens on ayahuasca, 5meo DMT, mushrooms - so I've concluded it's any tryptamine, as it doesn't happen on Iboga, even at flood doses.

One of my theories is that the MAL caused some type of neurological damage on my serotonin receptors causing these bad trips. If true, I would have thought Iboga could repair some of that damage, but that has not been the case.

My other theory is that it's simply the medicine telling me to take a multi-year break. But, if that were the case, why am I always left with this deep curiosity on what is happening during these trips and want to continuing going back to to learn more? It's not scaring me sober, it's doing the opposite, albeit, I take them much less frequently now.

I will say, that these experiences seem to have accelerated my journey into becoming more relaxed and at peace with life and the universe. But it sure would be nice to go back to the beautiful, blissful, euphoric experiences I started out with. Not this science experiment thing I've seem to gotten myself into.

Note - there were 4-5 consecutive ayahuasca and mushrooms trips that went beautifully over the last 4-6 month, but it started happening again, seemingly randomly and at a lower dose than some of those beautiful that were mixed in there.

I've finally reached the point where I'm ready to go on a year/multi-year break, but before I do, I'd love to hear if anyone has any insight outside of "it's time to take a break", although, don't hesitate to still suggest that!

I genuinely really enjoyed my time with these medicines - they saved my life and have allowed me to lead a much more fulfilling life in the process. It would be nice to be able to explore comfortably from time to time . Thanks for reading!

 

[northape]

I would suggest taking a break. Who knows what the real catalyst was, but it looks like you need to digest the information you were given. A solid plan would involve eating healthy, doing plenty of cardio and yoga, and perhaps exploring fasting, sports, and a balanced social life. Too many heavy journeys packed close together would destabilize anyone.

How strong were your mushroom doses? After my first difficult experience with mushrooms, it took me years to move on from the traumatic aftereffects. We are all different, but fighting poison with more poison (poison as dark trips) is no way to advance. I would start slowly when you decide to go back. Exploring neuroprotective nootropics like Noopept and Piracetam might be something to consider, but I am in no way a doctor, so do your own research.

I doubt you are in danger of becoming schizophrenic or anything similar. You would see a more rapid decline in your mental health, but it is better to be safe than sorry. Psychedelics are not going anywhere, and people usually have a much healthier relationship with them after a long break. Our brains are very plastic and can repair themselves given enough time and care.

These dark experiences could be a cry from your unconscious, but they could just as easily be the result of too much medicine in a short time. Be honest with yourself and exercise kindness and understanding. This life itself is a trip if you pay attention and let it unfold. Anyhow, much love and stay healthy.

 

[frequencyelevation]

I would suggest taking a break. Who knows what the real catalyst was, but it looks like you need to digest the information you were given. A solid plan would involve eating healthy, doing plenty of cardio and yoga, and perhaps exploring fasting, sports, and a balanced social life. Too many heavy journeys packed close together would destabilize anyone.

How strong were your mushroom doses? After my first difficult experience with mushrooms, it took me years to move on from the traumatic aftereffects. We are all different, but fighting poison with more poison (poison as dark trips) is no way to advance. I would start slowly when you decide to go back. Exploring neuroprotective nootropics like Noopept and Piracetam might be something to consider, but I am in no way a doctor, so do your own research.

I doubt you are in danger of becoming schizophrenic or anything similar. You would see a more rapid decline in your mental health, but it is better to be safe than sorry. Psychedelics are not going anywhere, and people usually have a much healthier relationship with them after a long break. Our brains are very plastic and can repair themselves given enough time and care.

These dark experiences could be a cry from your unconscious, but they could just as easily be the result of too much medicine in a short time. Be honest with yourself and exercise kindness and understanding. This life itself is a trip if you pay attention and let it unfold. Anyhow, much love and stay healthy.

Thank you, northape. I agree with all of that. Appreciate the wise words. My mushrooms doses were strong, 6-7g. My ayahuasca doses were not that strong when this has happened through, 230mg harmala full spectrum extract + 2g ACRB. Lower doses of either don't trigger it, just breakthrough-type doses do. I believe the ACRB I have is incredible potent, as the few "good" trips I've had with it at that dose gave me ego death.

One interesting thing I left out is I went to a traditional Colombian Taita-led ayahuasca retreat around when this first started happening in hopes to get some answers or at least have it occur with a Shaman/Taita type around. I never told Taita any specifics of why I was there other than dealing with immense work stress and some issues with psychedelics in the past around apocalyptic type visions that I'm trying to face.

My experience there was beautiful, no issues. On the 3rd and final ceremony I did feel a bit uneasy during the come-up, and the Taita saw it immediately, came over to me and blew some smoke or something into my face. I immediately relaxed and had a wonderful journey and didn't think much of it.

Two weeks later we had a zoom integration call and Taita said on the 3rd ceremony he had to fight off two entities who were trying to bully me - he used the words "bully", or at least his translator did. He described them as tall with long noses. I couldn't believe my ears, I was in shock. On the initial trip that went "bad", when it began to go sideways it was sparked by two blue, tall entities with long noses who had this mischievous attitude about them. At the time they appeared I was having such a great trip I didn't think much of it, then they disappeared and it all went downhill from there. I never connected those entities showing up then things going downhill until he mentioned that.

The Taita's instructions to me were to not use any psychedelic without him there. I clearly didn't heed his advice. He also didn't mention anything remotely like this to anyone else on the call, so it didn't strike me as a sales pitch, this Taita was nothing but genuine and loving the entire retreat.

I'm not sure what to make of all that. Do I have two entities who just enjoy bullying me, and now I'm stuck with that unless I have some Taita/Shaman there to ward them off? If this were true, I don't like the idea of being too weak to deal with them on my own. Are there any techniques to "fight off" negative entities?

Is this an actual thing that happens to people, they get a spirit bully? Seems a bit silly, but at the same time, given the power of these medicines, it doesn't seem silly at all.

 

[blig-blug]

Hi @frequencyelevation , it sounds like you've gone through some difficult experiences. I agree with you that taking a break seems the best plan for now. I wouldn't necessarily plan for a "multi-year" break. Take a break, pay attention to how you feel, and to how grounded in reality you are. Maybe at some point you'll decide to explore these substances again, maybe not. That choice can be left for the future. Now I think it's best to focus on grounding and health, both physical and mental.

I don't think you should be worried either about neurological damage from MAL nor any kind of spiritual bullies. You mention dealing with trauma, and to me it sounds very likely that's the main cause of these experiences. Psychedelics can help with trauma, as you have experienced, but they also make it possible to overwhelm the mind by bringing up too much, too soon. That's what I think has happened. I think the Taita you mention may have seen that in his own way, and that's why he advised you to not take psychedelics on your own. I don't think it's related to you being "weak" in any way, just dealing with a lot right now.

So that's my recommendation: take a break for now. Don't set a date or a duration. If you feel like you would benefit from (or enjoy) a psychedelic experience at any point, do it with said Taita if you trust him, or with some other trusted guide. That way you'll have support if anything goes wrong. It's not unlikely that once whatever traumatic material that has surfaced has been integrated you can again trip on your own and have more positive experiences.

I personally wouldn't start to think about entities bullying me, how to fight them, etc. That can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and throw you off-balance. Most often, the entity that bullies or attacks us is ourselves.

 

[northape]

I'm not sure what to make of all that. Do I have two entities who just enjoy bullying me, and now I'm stuck with that unless I have some Taita/Shaman there to ward them off? If this were true, I don't like the idea of being too weak to deal with them on my own. Are there any techniques to "fight off" negative entities?

First of all, the most reasonable advice would be this:

I personally wouldn't start to think about entities bullying me, how to fight them, etc. That can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and throw you off-balance. Most often, the entity that bullies or attacks us is ourselves.

However, if you cannot shake the idea, here is a piece of my mind:

These entities are simply energies that we encounter in our journeys, and they present themselves differently to different people. They may feel intelligent because they are mental representations within your own mind. Just as characters in a dream can have a conversation with you, so can these entities.

How should you deal with them? Treat them the same way you would treat intrusive thoughts. You can read several good books on OCD to learn how to do this. Essentially, they feed on your own energy and attention; the more you think about them, the more lifeforce they receive. Intrusive thoughts, entities, or even certain people can act like parasites that feed off your attention. Think of your attention as an electric current and these entities as a light bulb: starve them of energy, and they will begin to dim and eventually disappear.

From a shamanic standpoint, you can work with Mapacho (Nicotiana rustica). You can buy a roll of Mapacho or pipe tobacco and cheek smoke it (puffing without inhaling). Use it as incense and set your intention to the smoke. Pray to the tobacco for protection and cleansing, just as you might pray to God or any force of light you have faith in. The trick is to direct your attention toward the protective element rather than the entities. In doing so, you channel your energy into creating a protective shield for your psyche.

Regardless of the tool you use, never feed the issue you want to be rid of. This indirect approach is much more effective. Furthermore, take a break. Psychedelics introduce external energy into your system, which can lead to focusing too much on the wrong things. Starve these thoughts of their food. It is similar to a Candida infestation in the gut; you change your diet to starve the bacteria.

You are not weak. The only power in your life comes from you as a living, embodied being. No matter what apparitions you see, they have no power beyond what you give them.

I hope this helps. Bless you.

 

[frequencyelevation]

Thank you @blig-blug and @northape, appreciate the detailed responses - they make a whole lot of sense.

I do want to say that I am actually in a great place mentally, probably the best mental state I've ever been in. For the first time in my life I have a level of control over my inner state. If I made this post 2 years ago when this first started happening, I couldn't say the same. I do believe whatever this "bad" trip is has accelerated my quest for inner peace - you don't go through those experiences and come out the other side sane without learning to relax into life.

I can say the same health-wise, I eat very well, zero ultra processed foods, organic, the whole thing. I can certainly do with more exercise, as I used to be too obsessive about that and over lifted for years due to body image issues, but there definitely is a happy medium there that I need to find now that I'm more comfortable in my own skin.

I ultimately decided to make this post because I was digging through the FAQ and came across a section on "keep having bad trips?" or something along those lines and found an interesting archived thread that I couldn't post on, and I wondered why I never made the post here sooner, as the forum members here are a wealth of knowledge.

So why do I want to continue exploring tryptamines despite being in a great place mentally, well, I really enjoy it and it would be nice to be able to access that realm every few months to reset and reconnect. But, I know now that I don't need the medicines to lead a fulfilling and happy life.

 

[frequencyelevation]

O, and a very off-topic question. Is there a trick to reading archived threads on mobile? I get a bit dizzy scrolling left to right the whole time, but the information there is so vast I want to dig in more.

 

[blig-blug]

Is there a trick to reading archived threads on mobile?

I assume you mean the threads in the old forum, right? If so, look their title up in the search function of the new forum, and they'll come up there. The new forum is indeed much more readable on mobile.

 

[doubledog]

It's totally common and normal to have very unpleasant, dark, cold and even psychotic experiences after initial euphoric and blissfull trips.
Nothing is wrong with you, this is expected, especially with higher doses and frequency.

My advice is to not put too much of your attention into these bully entities and also to not try to fight them off.
You will have enough time to think about them in later phases, imo now you are not ready for that.

Focus on improvement of your daily life.