Using.... dry ice to freeze percipitate dmt crystals?

[1Starway7]

Just got an idea... knowing that dry ice is... much much!!.... colder....!..than most ordinary home freezers witch often arent cold enough...... It would seem that freeze percipitating dmt in a box with dry ice wraped in paper could quickly produce beautyfull large crystals much faster!... than waiting two or three days in a home freezer...
for saftey... one would have to freez the molecule outside in a box with a small block of ice ....under and posibly over... the extraction dish... .and never!... in the living area of a home... because a larger abount of this stuff.... can displace the air in the room...
i think a small block of dry ice can be bought at some food stores...and it lasts only 2 or three hours....the vapor it releases....CO2.... is invisable and usually harmless... if not in an inclosed space.... if dry ice is put in water it goes grazy...evaporating at a fast pace...


example of its freezing power....It takes seconds for a drop of water to freeze and a few minutes to completely freeze a cup of water

I want to try this idea...has anyone yet tryed it?

 

[redbird]

It's an interesting idea but i dont think it will be benefit in the way you expect.
My understanding is flash freshing it would give a sandy product where the big sexy xtals you seek actually come from a slow freezing/crystalization process that gives the structures time to grow as they crash out of solution

 

[1Starway7]

It's an interesting idea but i dont think it will be benefit in the way you expect.
My understanding is flash freshing it would give a sandy product where the big sexy xtals you seek actually come from a slow freezing/crystalization process that gives the structures time to grow as they crash out of solution

The freezing process time [is much!! shorter]...using dry ice ....And fast freezing would probibly make smaller crystals..but a dense amount of them fast!

But after some thought im concerned about solvent also freezing? im my case... it would be napatha....

But if the crystals of dmt formed on bottom of dish...i could simply pour off the napatha when it returned to liquid..leaving a solid rug of small dense crystals to be
fan dryed...

pretty giant crystals arent as important as purity....

 

[Transform]

You'd need to use a solvent of some kind to ensure heat transfer from the container with the naphtha into the cryogenic cooling, well, bath. Choice of solvent controls the bath temperature, down to -78°C for dry ice + acetone. This is standard lab procedure, and it's best to use crushed pieces of dry ice. Just make sure you're not going to freeze out any of your naphtha components by treating a test sample of the naphtha alone, and if necessary choosing a solvent for the cryogenic cooling bath that will give 'warmer' results than using acetone would.

 

[Transform]

pretty giant crystals arent as important as purity..

Getting pretty, giant crystals is more of an assurance of purity than getting zillions of tiny specks, all covered in entrained solvent and whatever's dissolved in that, btw.

 

[1Starway7]

Getting pretty, giant crystals is more of an assurance of purity than getting zillions of tiny specks, all covered in entrained solvent and whatever's dissolved in that, btw.

Those specks magnafied... [under a microscope]...might look exactly like the large crystals
maybe the crystals will get larger than i think? ....I havent tryed it yet...
Also if im using a reasonably thick clear extraction dish maybe the freezing effect will be slowed some ... by the layers of glass not alowing the dry ice to touch any of the
..
molecule ..Like adjusting the distance of the block of dryed ice from the walls of the extraction dish [ with layers of card board] may be a way of adjusting the freezeing speed... a little/?
None of this has been tryed yet..

all the freezing effect will occure from outside the extraction dish.....
Just another idea ..im shure the freezing time would much quicker than a normal freezer..

 

[Transform]

Smaller crystals have a larger total surface area for the same mass of substance than larger crystals do. The surface ends up with solvent stuck to it, and whatever's dissolved in the solvent will get left behind once the solvent evaporates.

You'd best look into the physics of heat transfer before you decide whether it's really worth spending money on dry ice. Calculating for the specific heat capacity of naphtha and DMT, along with the latent heat of fusion for DMT versus the latent heat of sublimation for CO₂, will help you to determine whether there's any specific advantage here in comparison with simply using a freezer.

I get that the dry ice will be outside of the naphtha solution, I was suggesting that an additional solvent would be used as a heat transfer agent for the dry ice - again, outside of the naphtha container - as gaseous CO₂ will have poor thermal transfer properties.

Experiment by all means, but it's surely helpful to think about the physics of what's going on too. Cryogenic Cooling baths are an established technique, after all.

 

[Transform]

More useful information here:

Cooling bath - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mrdeems]

Just got an idea... knowing that dry ice is... much much!!.... colder....!..than most ordinary home freezers witch often arent cold enough...... It would seem that freeze percipitating dmt in a box with dry ice wraped in paper could quickly produce beautyfull large crystals much faster!... than waiting two or three days in a home freezer...
for saftey... one would have to freez the molecule outside in a box with a small block of ice ....under and posibly over... the extraction dish... .and never!... in the living area of a home... because a larger abount of this stuff.... can displace the air in the room...
i think a small block of dry ice can be bought at some food stores...and it lasts only 2 or three hours....the vapor it releases....CO2.... is invisable and usually harmless... if not in an inclosed space.... if dry ice is put in water it goes grazy...evaporating at a fast pace...


example of its freezing power....It takes seconds for a drop of water to freeze and a few minutes to completely freeze a cup of water

I want to try this idea...has anyone yet tryed it?

i have ised dry ice many times and i mist say it makes the crystals faster and the same size if not larger than a freezer

 

[1Starway7]

i have ised dry ice many times and i mist say it makes the crystals faster and the same size if not larger than a freezer

OH....really!! ...... Do the crystals look very white and pure? .... and are you able to pour off ...[unfrozen] liquid napatha....or whatever solvent you use?
I never tryed my dry ice idea yet......because everyone was saying it would freeze the dmt too fast !...and cause very tiny little crystals that would lock in the napatha. and be a pain to deal with.......
I guess this is what happens when a good idea is ignored...and never tryed...

could you send pictures of your crystals?

 

[SantoMescalito]

One way to do it is slowly let your solution cool to room temperature, the put it in the fridge for a few hours, then in the freezer for a few hours. There will already be nice big crystals formed at this point. Then finally in a bath of isopropanol and dry ice, the last step should ensure that 100% of the DMT crystallizes. You wanna use one of those white polystyrene (styrofoam) boxes to make the bath, they're good heat insulators. Isopropanol won't diss polystyrene but acetone will so don't make a dry ice / acetone bath with styrofoam.

 

[modern]

I may be wrong but isn't dry ice used to precipitate NMT leaving DMT in solution? I remember reading this somewhere. I'll try to find the link if I remember

EDIT: Dry ice to precipitate NMT carbamate out of NP solvent for ACRB extract

 

[Varallo]

I may be wrong but isn't dry ice used to precipitate NMT leaving DMT in solution? I remember reading this somewhere. I'll try to find the link if I remember

EDIT: Dry ice to precipitate NMT carbamate out of NP solvent for ACRB extract

You’re absolutely right. This thread is more of an thought experiment, especially because precipitation in a regular freezer typically results in nicer crystals, which indicates higher purity.

The only reason one would consider doing it differently would be to crash the product out more quickly and with a finer consistency, but otherwise, I don’t see the practical benefit.

The thread you referenced is spot on about separating NMT from the solution using dry ice or by bubbling CO₂ through it, so thanks for the reminder.

 

[1Starway7]

You’re absolutely right. This thread is more of an thought experiment, especially because precipitation in a regular freezer typically results in nicer crystals, which indicates higher purity.

The only reason one would consider doing it differently would be to crash the product out more quickly and with a finer consistency, but otherwise, I don’t see the practical benefit.

The thread you referenced is spot on about separating NMT from the solution using dry ice or by bubbling CO₂ through it, so thanks for the reminder.

You’re absolutely right. This thread is more of an thought experiment, especially because precipitation in a regular freezer typically results in nicer crystals, which indicates higher purity.

The only reason one would consider doing it differently would be to crash the product out more quickly and with a finer consistency, but otherwise, I don’t see the practical benefit.

The thread you referenced is spot on about separating NMT from the solution using dry ice or by bubbling CO₂ through it, so thanks for the reminder.

it is more of a thought experiment ......untill its really tryed!....if you have read post above..

.....Mrdeems..... in post above ....claims to have used dry ice to get exelent results with dmt...!

i have never tryed it yet...but am still tempted to try....

 

[Transform]

i have ised dry ice many times and i mist say it makes the crystals faster and the same size if not larger than a freezer

This is a bit of a 'pics or it didn't happen' kind of situation, unfortunately. There's also a istinct lack of technical detail - but luckily, it seems that

One way to do it is slowly let your solution cool to room temperature, the put it in the fridge for a few hours, then in the freezer for a few hours. There will already be nice big crystals formed at this point. Then finally in a bath of isopropanol and dry ice, the last step should ensure that 100% of the DMT crystallizes. You wanna use one of those white polystyrene (styrofoam) boxes to make the bath, they're good heat insulators. Isopropanol won't diss polystyrene but acetone will so don't make a dry ice / acetone bath with styrofoam.

makes a lot of sense. There's also the option of finding a suitable stainless steel (or other solvent-resistant material, like glass or gcazed ceramic) bowl to use in the polystyrene box - or, if you can find a moulded piece of styrofoam that fits the bowl snugly, that would be ideal. Glass or ceramic bowls might be sold with this as part of their packaging, indeed.

Using such a bowl would give a bit more of a chance to use acetone for the dry ice/solvent bath if you're careful to avoid spillages. It would be a good idea to line the polystyrene with a sheet of LDPE for extra protection from the acetone, perhaps.

 

[1Starway7]

This is a bit of a 'pics or it didn't happen' kind of situation, unfortunately. There's also a istinct lack of technical detail - but luckily, it seems that

makes a lot of sense. There's also the option of finding a suitable stainless steel (or other solvent-resistant material, like glass or gcazed ceramic) bowl to use in the polystyrene box - or, if you can find a moulded piece of styrofoam that fits the bowl snugly, that would be ideal. Glass or ceramic bowls might be sold with this as part of their packaging, indeed.

Using such a bowl would give a bit more of a chance to use acetone for the dry ice/solvent bath if you're careful to avoid spillages. It would be a good idea to line the polystyrene with a sheet of LDPE for extra protection from the acetone, perhaps.

If i try dry ice ill use a thick rectangular clear glass dish with 1 1/2 high sides ..ill buy a flat peice of dry ice... close to 7 inches long thick. glass. 3..or.. 4 inches wide that should fit pretty good under the percip dish..
Its already cold outside here in janurary ... i would put the glass dish in a small wooden box outside where it wont be noticed...possibly under my. previa awd in lot..
the stuff is soo cold!!.. i may be able to watch the crystals grow in front of my eyes..
I have a lab beaker that contains the napatha pulls ....from half.. ... of my more than 500grams of broken up peices of acacia ...
first...as a test ...Ill take a dropper and use very little of my napatha pulls... dropper just enough to cover the bottom of the extraction dish that will have a slab of dry ice under it...then ill watch what happens....
picture below ,,,,is beaker containing 1/2 napatha pulls of my 550 grams of acacia bark peices ...been sitting in cabnet for 10 days..after putting it through a cleanup...i plan to turn it into dmt citrate...

last picture shows how dense the dmt in the napatha pull is after sitting only 2 hours close to small freezer ....not in it....

 

[1Starway7]

If i try dry ice ill use a thick rectangular clear glass dish with 1 1/2 high sides ..ill buy a flat peice of dry ice... close to 7 inches long thick. glass. 3..or.. 4 inches wide that should fit pretty good under the percip dish..
Its already cold outside here in janurary ... i would put the glass dish in a small wooden box outside where it wont be noticed...possibly under my. previa awd in lot..
the stuff is soo cold!!.. i may be able to watch the crystals grow in front of my eyes..
I have a lab beaker that contains the napatha pulls ....from half.. ... of my more than 500grams of broken up peices of acacia ...
first...as a test ...Ill take a dropper and use very little of my napatha pulls... dropper just enough to cover the bottom of the extraction dish that will have a slab of dry ice under it...then ill watch what happens....
picture below ,,,,is beaker containing 1/2 napatha pulls of my 550 grams of acacia bark peices ...been sitting in cabnet for 10 days..after putting it through a cleanup...i plan to turn it into dmt citrate...

last picture shows how dense the dmt in the napatha pull is after sitting only 2 hours close to small freezer ....not in it....

Well i used my extraction dish droppered just enough... napatha /dmt....to cover bottom of dish..i had the dish sitting on a block of dry ice...[cost me 20 cents at the store...

Glass Dish sitting on a block of dry ice inside a plastic container.... [within 10 or 15 minutes it was freezing...the block of dry ice was..... 5 .1/2 inches long...1 .1/2 inch thick...the ice block was 3 and 1/2 inches wide ...it fit pretty good.... sitting under the glass dish which was very close to this measurment!

in first 10 minutes it was freezing clumps of dmt [hope the napatha isnt freezing also? ...first 4 photos...

If you see in pictures the dry ice is soo cold ....it seems to just glob the dmt together ! it seperats it. and piles it up ...upon its self......little dmt mountains appeare in picture....

 

[1Starway7]

Well i used my extraction dish droppered just enough... napatha /dmt....to cover bottom of dish..i had the dish sitting on a block of dry ice...[cost me 20 cents at the store...

Dish sitting on a block of dry ice [within 10 oe 15 minutes it was freezing...

in first 10 minutes it was freezing clumps of dmt [hope the napatha isnt freezing also? ...first 4 photos...

After the first 10 minutes with only a tiny amount of dmt rich napatha...i poured more into extraction dish ..it turned snow white....let it set 20 or 25 minutes and took more pictures with the dish tilted...now..i have snow white little mountains growing! look close to the lumps of dmt!!

not shure how it does it?.... except for the extreem cold of dry ice...but it seems to just gather the dmt and it seems to appeare like magic in minutes instead of being in freezer for three days...building nice pretty crystals....

 

[1Starway7]

After the first 10 minutes with only a tiny amount of dmt rich napatha...i poured more into extraction dish ..it turned snow white....let it set 20 or 25 minutes and took more pictures with the dish tilted...now..i have snow white little mountains growing! look close to the lumps of dmt!!

after about 40 minutes i poured out the liquid napatha with some sizable white chunks in it...

now im keeping the chunks stuck to dish on the dry ice and watch for any changes?

after a while longer on dry ice...im tilting the extraction dish in front of a computer fan.... to hopefully remove all traces of napatha ..even the smell must be gone!

although not pretty crystals....this stuff is super white!! results from a small... 20 cent...flat chunk of dry ice

im hopeing it didnt lock napatha in it... All..this.... came from about 1/6th ..[or less]...of the dmt rich napatha in lab bottel pictured below...

 

[1Starway7]

after about 40 minutes i poured out the liquid napatha with some sizable white chunks in it...

now im keeping the chunks stuck to dish on the dry ice and watch for any changes?

after a while longer on dry ice...im tilting the extraction dish in front of a computer fan.... to hopefully remove all traces of napatha ..even the smell must be gone!

although not pretty crystals....this stuff is super white!! results from a small... 20 cent...flat chunk of dry ice

im hopeing it didnt lock napatha in it... All..this.... came from about 1/6th ..[or less]...of the dmt rich napatha in lab bottel pictured below...

After pouring off most of napatha and placing in front of a fan...those big mounds shrunk a lot! ....[ BUT REMEMBER... I USED VERY LITTLE NAPATHA PULL]....leaving a white powder all over the bottom of dish...

there is a small posibility that i pulled NMT?

......its white.... ....it smells ... like plastic .. the way fairly clean dmt often smells....it melts like dmt....



what i basicly did was got a flat square shaped peice of dry ice at the store for 20 cents ..... the.... [block size]... measured very close to the measurments of the bottom of the glass extraction dish....
with the dry ice in a plastic sandwish box........then...i placed the extraction dish on top of the dry ice then droppered some of my ....dmt rich napatha pull.... into glass dish..later i added a little more of the napatha pull into the ectraction dish...everything in the dish turned solid white very quickly...then the super cold temperature did its thing....



compair the level of the napatha between the two pictures of bottle [ level ....[ below the white circle.]..level dropped 1/8th of an inch only....shows i used a very tiny amount of napatha to get this white powder...

it appears !... that ...dry ice.. can pull dmt out of a napatha pull.... without needing to make it into fancy crystals! and a lot faster....

pluto labratories...