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various in-depth questions about extraction (elkabong to consider)

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LemonScented

Rising Star
Although my previous extractions have been effective I honestly think they've been somewhat sloppy. For my next extraction I want to be far more concise. Specifically, I want to make sure the pH's are just right and that I don't use to much solvent per pull.
I read in a post by elkabong a while ago that a pH of 2 was sufficent for pulling dmt without heating but instead shaking periodically over a day or so. Is this truly all it takes? Obviously I would need to use HCL instead of acetic acid to reach that low of a pH.. elkabong also says that 5ml HCL is enough to acidify 1250ml distilled water to 2. Am I correct in assuming that it would take ~13.5ml of HCL to acidify 3385ml to pH 2? Is it a matter of ratio proportions?
As for basification... i'm told i'm aiming for a pH of 11.2 in order to freebase without burning the molecule. Since I don't own a digital pH pen I'll be shooting for 11. How much NaOH should be added to 100-200ml cold distilled water to acheive this? Does anyone know the formula(s) for calculating stuff like this in relation to liquid quantity?
As for solvents... I'm trying a new one, OMS. I tried it with the tail-end of a previous batch and (although i had to freeze it a little longer) it was effective. How much would you use per pull? I was thinking 200ml OMS for slight less than a gallon of liquid, heated. Sound good?
I know theres a lot of questions here. feel free to throw your opinions around!
 
Just do it grasshopper ... that's all it takes, truly ! practice...

And just do it once with a pH pen to learn the correct recepe by the colours of the water. A pH pen is not hard to borrow, or buy - just get one if you really need to know the nitty gritty numbers are ok.

When basifying a filtered acid extract just add lye solution until it goes jet-black, that's all. It's given away by the oily, slippy jet-black colour at pH 11 'ish - stop adding then.
 
that sounds fine. to tell you the truth i'm more concerned about acidifiying the solution... is a pH of 2 (without heating) enough to get ALL the dmt into the solution? it sounds correct, i guess i'm just specatacle of large extractions occuring without heat. It's probably just a misconception about the process on my part... you know, i think my main problem with dmt extraction is that I don't truly understand all the science behind it. I simply take peoples' word for it... While I certainly trust your judgement, el ka bong, i am still unsure of other Teks that I have followed in the past. my goal for this upcoming extraction is to be as precise and scientific as possible.
 
LemonScented said:
that sounds fine. to tell you the truth i'm more concerned about acidifiying the solution... is a pH of 2 (without heating) enough to get ALL the dmt into the solution? it sounds correct, i guess i'm just specatacle of large extractions occuring without heat. It's probably just a misconception about the process on my part... you know, i think my main problem with dmt extraction is that I don't truly understand all the science behind it. I simply take peoples' word for it... While I certainly trust your judgement, el ka bong, i am still unsure of other Teks that I have followed in the past. my goal for this upcoming extraction is to be as precise and scientific as possible.

I wouldn't be as concerned about the acid pH either. Cold extractions will work even without acid (unless your water is extremely hard). Take the Juerma cults for example...cold water mimosa infusion, no heat, no acid. However if you really want to be a scientific as possible you will NEED to get a pH pen or at least some pH strips. pH strips are cheap as are some pH pens, if you really are concerned, pick up some. Gardening shops should have some pH measuring devises.

Honestly, to me, both the extraction as well as crystal growing seem more like an art than a science. I rarely use my pH pen anymore. The most important factors I have found are the surface area of the plant material (grind it up good or use powder), the volume of liquid in the acid washes, and the amount of time the plant material spends in the water. With cold soaks longer is better. Multiple soaks over the course of a week or two works well for me.
 
Check out the information section of the forum if you want to understand the science behind it, it really does help out a lot once you do.

I'd recommend doing at least 2-3 acid washes though for a day each if you wanna ensure you have solubilized all of the deems.
 
you can create a pH of 2 with acetic acid. if its pure. acetic acid is nice because you can heat off some water and it will not concentrate the acid because acetic acid is volatile.

pH 2-3 is fine. and yea it becomes easy to eyeball after a while. it doesn't make a huge difference. DMT is freely soluble in dilute acids. heating or no heating mainly changes the time you need to do extractions.
 
I meant heating it uncovered specifically with the goal of reducing the volume when using muriatic. heating it covered to increase the reaction doesnt reduce the volume, and therefore doesnt concentrate it.
 
burnt said:
Well it depends how low the pH gets. If its gets to be 1 or lower things might happen.

On my first attempt extracting the spice I just poured in muriatic acid, I didn't realize how strong it was. pH dropped down to around 0.4 (at least that is what my pH pen said, but who knows).

The spice pulled was very potent.
 
LemonScented said:
yeah i'm curious about that myself... when using muriatic acid/ HCL is it ok to heat as well?

Yes it's fine, but do not use any metal....at all.

Unless you are really reducing it alot then I don't think it is that much of an issue. You can always use a little sodium hydroxide to keep the pH from dropping too low.

Remember though, HCL vapor can and will eat through damn near anything metal, including your stove vent, blinds, spoons, anything.
 
interesting. well, if i heat i'll be sure to do so at a very low temperature i.e. in crock pot. Wouldn't it take a lot of evaporation to change the pH?
perhaps 3 acid washes without heat over the course of 3 days would be just as effective as heating, perhaps even more thorough...
 
LemonScented said:
interesting. well, if i heat i'll be sure to do so at a very low temperature i.e. in crock pot. Wouldn't it take a lot of evaporation to change the pH?
perhaps 3 acid washes without heat over the course of 3 days would be just as effective as heating, perhaps even more thorough...

In a crock pot is more than fine. I doubt you will evaporate enough to lower the pH very much at all.
 
swim doesnt think you need to worry about lowering the PH of your acid phase by heating, unless you are heating it uncovered for a prolonged time (hours), to purposefully reduce the volume.
 
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