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vegetarianism/veganism

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^ now this is an awesome post, Jamie. I really appreciate the realism and the reasoning in what you say, besides the fact I instinctively agree with the idea of eating mostly vegetables and fruits and little amounts of animal protein.

Thanks a lot for sharing.
 
jamie -

I watched that 6 part video series. Very interesting and most of it vibes well with me. It took him forever to get his point across though.

I'm not quite sure where he was going with his ethanol comments. Maybe this part got cut off or something?

I think the whole talk would have been much more effective if it were shorter.

I believe his goal is to get people to go to the grocery stores and request that more forest type foods be introduced back into the store. As you can see 16k people started watching the first video but by the time he got to the last video only 8k or so were left. That's 8k people that could be in the market for this sort of thing that aren't now.

Regardless - I like the guy. He makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for sharing m8.
 
I reallt don't get the whole veganism thing. To me it's totally unnatural. Why eat just vegetables and fruit and then take pharmaceutical supplements to fullfill your vitamin needs? Doesn't that tell you something when you have to take pills to be healthy?

We are omnivores, we are designed to eat both meat and vegetables. I don't get the argument either about animals being injected with blah blah etc.. what about the millions of gallons of pesticides that are sprayed on vegetables and the land every year, i would guess that this is more dangerous for health than eating meat. Am i missing something?

I can understand people not wanting to eat meat because they feel bad for the poor animals getting killed but look at nature, nature is cruel. It can take hours for animals to die in the wild after being bitten by their predators or venomised by their predators etc.

My argument isn't really going anywhere but feeling sorry for animals who wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the meat industry is imho silly. Sorry for the rant but i just fell out with my vegan cousin because she is a vegan hardhead and totally unable to see a different point of view. Peace.
 
DeMenTed said:
I reallt don't get the whole veganism thing. To me it's totally unnatural. Why eat just vegetables and fruit and then take pharmaceutical supplements to fullfill your vitamin needs? Doesn't that tell you something when you have to take pills to be healthy?
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Many vegans and mainly raw foodists as they don't use artificial anything including supplements, do not use isolated products and after years can produce fully healthy bloodwork.

I feel physically and mentally far superior when I diet raw compared to when I include cooked meats. The downside to a non-meat diet is I find it can take longer for worn-out muscles to repair.
 
I find for me that a predominately vegetarian diet with the occasional piece of fish and MUCH rarer piece of chicken is just fine.

I do it for two reasons.

1) I'm WAY healthier now than I was. When I do eat meat now I feel bloated for hours. This doesn't happen with fish at all.

2) Spiritual reasons. I feel that taking part in factory farming is just wrong. But instead of taking the "Ill never support this industry again stance", I take the I'll reduce my food print stance I am far less involved in the secondary killing of animals now than I used to be.

Extremes are almost alway's wrong in my opinion.

Peace
 
I'm a little torn right now....

I've been very much thinking about giving away my chickens. (I'm vegetarian, I eat their eggs.) They tie me down too much--I need to find someone to come by at least once a day to take care of them, if ever I wish to go away for a bit.

But for the past week I've been looking at them and thinking...eggs are cool. But maybe re-introduce a bit of meat into my diet. Free range, all organic, I know exactly what they eat. And very fresh. I think I'll cull one of them next week, then decide if I want to keep them.

Mass produced meat I'd rather never have to touch again, meat that I raise or hunt is another story. I have a long bow and a compound bow that I shoot at targets. It's a survival thing, society collapses, it might be difficult to be a strict vegetarian.
 
parallelwhispers, that's a very bad source. No primary research and a bunch of bro science.

I encourage everybody to try a month without dairy products but saying "x is bad" and offering a propaganda site for the source isn't the best approach in my opinion.
 
Its a really personal choice I guess, I personally choose not to eat meat due to the intense cruelty of the industry... I have been vegetarian for 13 years based on the nature of the industry I choose not to support or condone it. I would have no issue eating meat if that animal lived a free wild life before it is eaten.

Though I never liked red meat much as its incredibly heavy on my body and has an intense flavour. Fish, turkey and chicken are excellent as they aren't heavy on my body or in their flavour.

I make a sacrifice each day as I feel integrity is important when it comes to life choices and especially food choices. I have been really happy and healthy being vegetarian and it has also made me more careful and aware of what I eat.

Thank you to everyone for all your interesting perspectives and diverse opinions...


Much Peace and Kindness
 
parallelwhispers said:
Sorry Shaolin, you're right, that source was pretty way super biased.

Slightly better link on milk here: procon


I love you. :)
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^that is still just sort of bunk because it does not adress the real issue. The real problem with dairy seems to be that is from cows pumped full of hormones etc, and then it is pasturized. Pasturized dairy does NOT contain the enzymes in it anymore to digest the lactose, whereas in raw unpasturized dairy those enzymes are still intact.

There are also different breeds of cows. The older more "heirloom" breeds of cow actaully have some different genes that change the way they produce casein..the modern cows produce beta caseien..the older "heirloom" species of cows actaully only produce A2 casein. Goats also produce A2 casein.

The claim that because we dont have dairy after a certain age is a fallacy. I know, I used to say this all the time also..but it makes no sense. If you put out raw organic milk for a wild cat they will consume it..and they wont drink water with toxic mineral levels etc..yet they dont have milk usually after a certain time either. It's not just humans that will consume milk for nutrition so dont buy into the bullshit that vegans or other people make up.

I am "lactose intolerant" and went years without any dairy at all..then I just recently tried raw organic grass fed freerange cows milk..from older heirloom cows and at first I was unsure how I felt..but after eating it for a week now as an experiement I can say that it is NOT like normal hormone, puss and blood rich conventional concentration camp cows..just nothing.

So, IMO I am convinced enough that the arguements about milk posted above are just a pile of crap. I dont even like milk, but I have proven to myself that the whole issue is far more complicated than most anti milk vegans etc make it seem. I have heard it all and spewed out all the same crap. Lately I have been finding that even seemingly educated vegans dont really understand the situation well at all so it is best to really do your own research and do a lot of it.

People have kept goats and cows for a very very long time man..and they were not pasturized that milk, giving the cows hormones, drinking liters of it a day or block of cheese. They had much smaller ammount of raw grass fed dairy products and were fine.

I think wheat is the real problem. If you look at wheat it contains many allergens even when 100% organic etc..

I dont even believe that raw food is better or essential now..I actaully find some thing do digest better when cooked so I am not a raw foodest anymore. 25% of my diet is actaully cooked now and for those things I do cook I feel they are better off that way. I am starting to think that we actaully have evolved to eat some cooked food.
 
I also got a freerange organic chicken from a farm that was certified by the SPCA here so it was non cruel etc..and I dont think I am gunna do bird meat now. It feels heavier than fish and does not seem to do anything else for me..so I think I am gunna stick to going fishing and eating some eggs and maybe try to goat cheese(but I dont really like dairy much)..
 
Thankyou for all the information Jamie. You seem to know alot more on this subject than I do.
I've just always thought that people drink far too much milk, at least here in the US, and I think that the implications for osteoporosis are in studies that happen to be relatively vague. But I think that the overall results imply that drinking too much pasteurized, hormone filled milk may aid in the development of osteoporosis.

In the US, we send in swat teams to take down the criminals who try to deal the horrible drug: Raw Milk.

That being said, most people in the US are consuming exactly that kind of milk, sometimes in excess of three glasses a day.

I can't say it's bad, and I'm sorry for making such bold assertions.

Thanks again for the information.

I love you. :)
 
Raw milk and cheese made from raw milk is only to be avoided by pregnant women and little childeren. The immune systemm of very young childeren is not capable yet to deal with all the bacteria in raw milk from cows, goats or other animals. Maybe people with a weakened immune system (like cancer patients or people with HIV) should not take it either. But for people who´re in good health, it´s completely safe.
 
polytrip said:
Raw milk and cheese made from raw milk is only to be avoided by pregnant women and little childeren. The immune systemm of very young childeren is not capable yet to deal with all the bacteria in raw milk from cows, goats or other animals. Maybe people with a weakened immune system (like cancer patients or people with HIV) should not take it either. But for people who´re in good health, it´s completely safe.
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Really?

My grandparents use to give me raw milk from their cows at a very young age and I was a healthy child. Also my brother has been feeding his two kids raw goat milk since they were babies and they're both very healthy.
 
MySmelf said:
polytrip said:
Raw milk and cheese made from raw milk is only to be avoided by pregnant women and little childeren. The immune systemm of very young childeren is not capable yet to deal with all the bacteria in raw milk from cows, goats or other animals. Maybe people with a weakened immune system (like cancer patients or people with HIV) should not take it either. But for people who´re in good health, it´s completely safe.
Click to expand...

Really?

My grandparents use to give me raw milk from their cows at a very young age and I was a healthy child. Also my brother has been feeding his two kids raw goat milk since they were babies and they're both very healthy.
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Well, it´s like with raw eggs. It´s a relative risky thing for infants.

The reason why the EU wanted to ban all cheese made from raw milk...yeah i know, they´re a bit silly up there in brussels sometimes.
 
well..I dunno about all of this..

Colostrum, or "immune milk" is the first milk a mammal produces. It is not really milk at all but looks like it. In cows it is produced for like 7-8 hours I think, in humans just less than a day after birth..The milk after that still has some colostrum in it but the levels go down drastically Now colostrum itself is very interesting for a variety of reasons but in relation to raw milk and infants, colostrum or "immune milk" is essential.

Just ask any farmer what happens if a calf never gets this immune milk or colustrum..and yes it has to be raw..these cows will forever be sick and dependant on antibiotics etc because they will have no immune system..humans are the same.

What is interesting is that, from what I understand anyway human and bovine colostrum are basically identical..whereas goat colostrum is quite different from ours..

Colostrum is what trains the immune system..it has antibodies etc for every pathogen the mother has ever been exposed to. Basically colostrum is essential for infants in order for them to develop a functioning immune system...the ammount of kids that are just bottle fed is alarming..in india for example they are trying to get women to hold off breast feeding at first so that the children will respond better to vaccination..which just sounds horrible..my point is though that it is not really that surprising that many young children today would have such weak immune systems whem so many are bottle fed or fed soy formulas right off the bat..colostrum is food for the immune system of an infant. It is crazy for them to not have this raw immune milk..

I would think that children who are raised the way nature intended-breast fed, from a healthy mother producing healthy colostrum should not have these problems with raw grass fed organic milk..but I am not a doctor so I cannot say for sure..

Anyway there is a lot of interesting research being done on the effects of cow colostrum in humans and it does seem to have some very potent medicinal qualities..the body can also take up as much colostrum basically as you can give it and it will use all of it..many people have claimed it completely healed their bowel diseases etc as colostrum has been found to be very good for rebuilding damaged tissues in the body and toning the immune system.
 
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