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very thick aqueous solution

iownme

Established member
hi all.
new to this.
i followed the chris cantaleno video on youtube.
i used 50g powdered bark and half of all his ingredients , as he used 100g bark powder.
all went well until i put the naptha onto the "aqueous solution"
i swirled the container the same way he did but the product and the naptha did not mix at all, is this likely to affect the end result and if so what could i do differently?
 
hi all.
new to this.
i followed the chris cantaleno video on youtube.
i used 50g powdered bark and half of all his ingredients , as he used 100g bark powder.
all went well until i put the naptha onto the "aqueous solution"
i swirled the container the same way he did but the product and the naptha did not mix at all, is this likely to affect the end result and if so what could i do differently?
Hi, welcome.

Naphtha and water are immiscible anyhow. How do you think the DMT transfers between the two phases? It's this behaviour that allows us to separate the DMT from the mixture.
 
Hi, welcome.

Naphtha and water are immiscible anyhow. How do you think the DMT transfers between the two phases? It's this behaviour that allows us to separate the DMT from the mixture.
thankyou. i dont think you understood my question.
i know ⬆️⬆️⬆️
i wasnt expecting them to "mix" but what i was expecting was the same behavior as in chris's video when he "swirled" the mason jar.
mine did not act that way and im curious as to why, and if its likely to affect the dmt transfer.
im sure it will all be fine but i just wanted to reach out to see if anyone else had the same result as me and what the outcome was and what was learned.
cant learn a without asking questions.
unless you trust the science and therefore nowadays one is not allowed to ask questions one just has to trust the science🤦‍♂️
 
thankyou. i dont think you understood my question.
i know⬆️⬆️⬆️
i wasnt expecting them to "mix" but what i was expecting was the same behavior as in chris's video when he "swirled" the mason jar.
mine did not act that way and im curious as to why, and if its likely to affect the dmt transfer.
im sure it will all be fine but i just wanted to reach out to see if anyone else had the same result as me and what the outcome was and what was learned.
cant learn a without asking questions.
You'd best rephrase the question then 😅

I think that video refers to this method:
or is similar to this one:
with the distinction that the jar is filled to the brim to facilitate the mixing, with the premise that excluding air bubbles helps in preventing emulsions.
new to this.
[...]
i swirled the container the same way he did but the product and the naptha did not mix at all
That's what you said, can you blame me for thinking you'd misunderstood the process?

unless you trust the science and therefore nowadays one is not allowed to ask questions one just has to trust the science
Please expand, I'd be intrigued to hear your assumptions behind this statement.
 
You'd best rephrase the question then 😅

I think that video refers to this method:
or is similar to this one:
with the distinction that the jar is filled to the brim to facilitate the mixing, with the premise that excluding air bubbles helps in preventing emulsions.

That's what you said, can you blame me for thinking you'd misunderstood the process?


Please expand, I'd be intrigued to hear your assumptions
 
i see where this is going.
with respect i came here looking for help.
ive seen this type of behavior in forums and ive no wish to indulge you.
an appearance of help wrapped in a blanket of bpd is not what im here for.
as stated before, it will likely turn out fine.
have a great nite
 
i see where this is going.
with respect i came here looking for help.
ive seen this type of behavior in forums and ive no wish to indulge you.
an appearance of help wrapped in a blanket of bpd is not what im here for.
as stated before, it will likely turn out fine.
have a great nite
Good for you, you'll be fine - but maybe consider deleting telegram ;)

You have absolutely no idea who I am, nor I you, but if this situation is a repeating pattern for you, it may be of benefit to you to consider exactly what may be up with that pattern.
 
Good for you, you'll be fine - but maybe consider deleting telegram ;)

You have absolutely no idea who I am, nor I you, but if this situation is a repeating pattern for you, it may be of benefit to you to consider exactly what may be up with that pattern.
thanks.
actually im more of a car forum user and bdp behavior is rife in all forums.
its not a pattern for me per se, in about every other thread on every type of forum there are bpd people looking to "engage" with offers of "help"
im old and ive seen it all before.
thanks for reaching out, it IS appreciated👍
 
Ah, no worries. I've been around a fair old while myself and sit on the edge of being jaded about seeing a similar range of questions resurfacing again and again. I do get that it's not immediately obvious where to find specific information on any given nuance of extraction on this site, and have to balance that with my general goal of helping people to self-empower. That may give rise to situations where someone feels rubbed-up the wrong way. Now maybe the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it seems to me to be more of a favour to guide someone into truly understanding the process they have at hand, rather than immediately handing out an easy-to-find answer.

We're a fairly low traffic site here, so often I'm trawling the threads to check for posts that may have slipped through the cracks. I'm actually glad to have picked up your question, where others may have just let it slide. Still, the question in my first response was genuine and sincere - how do you think the DMT transfers between the two phases? To that I'd add - what do you think you could do to improve the mixing? Have you tried adding a bit more water, if there's enough space in the container?
 
You'd best rephrase the question then 😅

I think that video refers to this method:
or is similar to this one:
with the distinction that the jar is filled to the brim to facilitate the mixing, with the premise that excluding air bubbles helps in preventing emulsions.

That's what you said, can you blame me for thinking you'd misunderstood the process?


Please expand, I'd be intrigued to hear your assumptions behind this statement.

Ah, no worries. I've been around a fair old while myself and sit on the edge of being jaded about seeing a similar range of questions resurfacing again and again. I do get that it's not immediately obvious where to find specific information on any given nuance of extraction on this site, and have to balance that with my general goal of helping people to self-empower. That may give rise to situations where someone feels rubbed-up the wrong way. Now maybe the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it seems to me to be more of a favour to guide someone into truly understanding the process they have at hand, rather than immediately handing out an easy-to-find answer.

We're a fairly low traffic site here, so often I'm trawling the threads to check for posts that may have slipped through the cracks. I'm actually glad to have picked up your question, where others may have just let it slide. Still, the question in my first response was genuine and sincere - how do you think the DMT transfers between the two phases? To that I'd add - what do you think you could do to improve the mixing? Have you tried adding a bit more water, if there's enough space in
Ah, no worries. I've been around a fair old while myself and sit on the edge of being jaded about seeing a similar range of questions resurfacing again and again. I do get that it's not immediately obvious where to find specific information on any given nuance of extraction on this site, and have to balance that with my general goal of helping people to self-empower. That may give rise to situations where someone feels rubbed-up the wrong way. Now maybe the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it seems to me to be more of a favour to guide someone into truly understanding the process they have at hand, rather than immediately handing out an easy-to-find answer.

We're a fairly low traffic site here, so often I'm trawling the threads to check for posts that may have slipped through the cracks. I'm actually glad to have picked up your question, where others may have just let it slide. Still, the question in my first response was genuine and sincere - how do you think the DMT transfers between the two phases? To that I'd add - what do you think you could do to improve the mixing? Have you tried adding a bit more water, if there's enough space in the container?
thanks again for the well thought out and kindly response.
i only have a small smartfone and big fingers so lengthy typing is difficult for me.
my night in the freezer resulted in no crystals which is quite disheartening considering the years of waiting and the many disappointments of being ripped off etc.
i have read several threads on this site which gives me a somewhat new direction to travel.
i want this to happen for me at least once in my life.
i'll make a new post which will likely be lengthy.
i'm quite sure i belong here
 
Generally, just scaling all the ingredients in the recipe in one of these extractions isn't the way to go, it sounds like you ended up with too little water.

Don't give up on your current extraction. Try adding more water so it can slosh about more and mingle with the NPS properly.
I find that too viscous a mix will hang on to a lot of the NPS I put in, adding a bit of water can then result in a decent layer of NPS just appearing overnight as the base mix lets go of it.

No crystals can mean any combination of:
  • Too low pH, so no freebase formed. If the bark and water mix turned almost black when you added NaOH then you're probably good, adding 10g more lye to a mix of around a litre won't hurt if you want to make absolutely sure. If you already put 50g or so in about a litre then you're already good and this is very unlikely to be the issue.
  • Not enough mixing with the NPS ( IMHO this is most likely by the sound of it).
    • Try mixing by inverting the vessel ten times or so. You should be able to see the NPS separating out quite quickly, over the span of a few minutes. Don't mix again until the mix has separated as much as it can (ideally you will see a pretty smooth interface between the two liquids, a thin layer of persistent emulsion between the two indicates you're starting to mix too hard, or not waiting long enough between mixes), repeat this mixing and clearing half a dozen times or so.
  • Way too much NPS added ... you need to make sure you have a good concentration of DMT in the NPS you pull off, otherwise freeze precipitation won't happen. Try just 50ml or so. The only down side is you might have to do more pulls to get all the DMT out. But for a first exploratory extraction then we're looking for easy success, rather than ultimate efficiency.
  • Not cold enough freezer.
    • Generally you need to get to around -20C for the solubility of DMT in your NPS to drop enough that you get a decent crop of crystals precipitating.
  • No DMT in the bark in the first place ... Unfortunately the only practical way to test this at home is to try an extraction, so that's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It's a natural product, so content can vary from supplier to supplier and batch to batch. I've never seen zero though, over about four different suppliers.

Hope this helps, you can add a bit of a heat bath when mixing the NPS to make a bigger difference in solubility between in the vessel and in the freezer, but I usually only have to do that for pulls 3 onwards where the bulk has already been extracted.

All the figures above are inexact, the extraction happens on a spectrum and there's no particular sharp step cut offs where you'll get nothing out of good bark because you used too much or too little of something, just inefficient extractions that might take more time or energy than strictly necessary. The one exception is that your ph must be suitably high for the freebase to form.

Good luck!
 
Generally, just scaling all the ingredients in the recipe in one of these extractions isn't the way to go, it sounds like you ended up with too little water.

Don't give up on your current extraction. Try adding more water so it can slosh about more and mingle with the NPS properly.
I find that too viscous a mix will hang on to a lot of the NPS I put in, adding a bit of water can then result in a decent layer of NPS just appearing overnight as the base mix lets go of it.

No crystals can mean any combination of:
  • Too low pH, so no freebase formed. If the bark and water mix turned almost black when you added NaOH then you're probably good, adding 10g more lye to a mix of around a litre won't hurt if you want to make absolutely sure. If you already put 50g or so in about a litre then you're already good and this is very unlikely to be the issue.
  • Not enough mixing with the NPS ( IMHO this is most likely by the sound of it).
    • Try mixing by inverting the vessel ten times or so. You should be able to see the NPS separating out quite quickly, over the span of a few minutes. Don't mix again until the mix has separated as much as it can (ideally you will see a pretty smooth interface between the two liquids, a thin layer of persistent emulsion between the two indicates you're starting to mix too hard, or not waiting long enough between mixes), repeat this mixing and clearing half a dozen times or so.
  • Way too much NPS added ... you need to make sure you have a good concentration of DMT in the NPS you pull off, otherwise freeze precipitation won't happen. Try just 50ml or so. The only down side is you might have to do more pulls to get all the DMT out. But for a first exploratory extraction then we're looking for easy success, rather than ultimate efficiency.
  • Not cold enough freezer.
    • Generally you need to get to around -20C for the solubility of DMT in your NPS to drop enough that you get a decent crop of crystals precipitating.
  • No DMT in the bark in the first place ... Unfortunately the only practical way to test this at home is to try an extraction, so that's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It's a natural product, so content can vary from supplier to supplier and batch to batch. I've never seen zero though, over about four different suppliers.

Hope this helps, you can add a bit of a heat bath when mixing the NPS to make a bigger difference in solubility between in the vessel and in the freezer, but I usually only have to do that for pulls 3 onwards where the bulk has already been extracted.

All the figures above are inexact, the extraction happens on a spectrum and there's no particular sharp step cut offs where you'll get nothing out of good bark because you used too much or too little of something, just inefficient extractions that might take more time or energy than strictly necessary. The one exception is that your ph must be suitably high for the freebase to form.

Good luck!
what a detailed reply, thank you very much.

the aqueous is almost tar like, very black and does not slosh at all, most likely as you suggested, not enough water, so i will add more.

i continually tested the ph after each 1/8 teaspoon of NaOH was added, i also checked the temperature before and after adding it, never went above 117.

the ph was closer to 14 than 12 according to the test strips which i tested frequently.

with the aqueous being so tar like i imagine no "mixing" occurred.

which brings me to your original question of how do i think the dmt transfers, i thought i got what chris said in his video but i may have misunderstood (though i have watched it probably 30 times including while i was making it)

he says the dmt "wants" to go to the NaOH but has trouble getting back into the aqueous.

i looked for a better explanation but found none.

i do like to know how things work. he did not expand on the "swirling" part too much, as mine refuses to swirl this may well be part of the problem as i now see other possibilities from your text.

you mention too much nps...this is likely also. i think i had about an inch or so. i have no problem doing as many pulls as necessary using less, i am not at all lazy.
i wondered, after i complete the pull, do i put fresh nps back into the vessel or do i wait until after the freeze and reuse the original. chris said to reuse it. which i understand but do reuse it on like the 3rd or 4 pull or wait overnight and then use it for the 2nd pull the next day?.

i had lowered the temperature of the freezer to -18.8c (-2f)

i will lower it to -20.

bark quality is as you stated, unknown. i bought from a recommended supplier, i dont think im allowed to mention them here, but please correct me if im wrong.

it was mostly powder with some fibrous material mixed in.

chris was right about making it in the garage, i was not too careful when pouring some NaOH back into the container, and spilt some on a somewhat new varnished butcher block kitchen counter. when i cleaned up in the morning it had etched into it, so i WILL suffer to get there!

im a woodworker among other things so not a problem to fix.

i will continue trying with this, but as i mentioned earlier i do have a backup plan which i will talk at length about in another post which will also tell you all more about me.
 
i just looked in the freezer again and i think i can see around 3 tiny tiny crystals, maybe the size of small salt grains.
i'll leave it in there a little longer
 
i'm quite sure i belong here
And I'm glad you think so - we're a pretty thoughtful crowd here and strive to adhere to a set of standards which are perhaps fairly rare in today's internet. Sometimes my "filter" approach can come across as abrasive or dysfunctional, because it has to 😁

If there's insufficient space in your jar to add more water, another workaround for viscous soup preventing effective mixing is to repeatedly squirt the naphtha into the basic sludge using a glass or stainless steel turkey baster. The aim is to maximise surface to surface contact for every respective part of the two phases, throughout their volumes.
i just looked in the freezer again and i think i can see around 3 tiny tiny crystals, maybe the size of small salt grains.
i'll leave it in there a little longer
Once it looks as though nothing more has precipitated (and set your freezer at the lowest temperature setting for this, if that's -20°C, that' fine) for a couple or three hours, you can warm up and reuse that naphtha for more pulls on the soup.

I reckon you'll get something yet - as long as the crystals aren't ice from looking in the freezer too often.
 
The aim is to maximise surface to surface contact for every respective part of the two phases, throughout their volumes.
that makes it much clearer and i understand that concept in other areas so i can use that here. i did not know that.
i have plenty of room to add water and i have done so, about 50ml.
i just did my first swirl and it went well, it coated the wall of the glass with a dark soup.
i used much less naptha, perhaps 1/2" or less.
im reasonably confident they are crystals, i have only looked 3 times i think.
does the depth of naptha in the freezer make a difference, would a larger glass pan making it shallower be better or worse?... i have to get more so that will help choose.
Sometimes my "filter" approach can come across as abrasive or dysfunctional, because it has to 😁
and i can be accused of being overly sensitive which is bad, as text is such a poor form of communication, understanding that generally keeps me from taking abrasion to heart.
 
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to the facepalmers (and others)
please give me another chance, i was an anonymous poster who intended not to return after that response.
i have now created an introduction post.
i have now read the rules and understand why the facepalms.
id much rather get a hug than a facepalm.
im intending sticking around like that sticky mud i was working with
 
Baking dishes could be considered advatageous for scraping up the crystals, and maybe the surface area to volume ratio help in preventing inconvenient "floaters" but it's still relative - they can be cumbersome and risk sloshing and spillage, are difficult to pour from, and often don't have a proper lid. For that reason, some people use other containers like conserve jars, one reason being that it's much easier to pour off the naphtha and then put the lid back on so the jar can be returned to the freezer upside-down while the remaining naphtha drains off - this helps to prevent annoying condensation which can even cause the crystals to liquefy in sufficiently humid environments.

im a woodworker among other things
(y)(y)(y)
 
conserve jars sounds the better choice for me, i have experienced the sloshing you mention and while the lids fit, they are not easily removed,
i imagine crystal removal is a little more challenging but not a big deal.
i'll see what the store has taking all that info into account.
chris says to leave the solution for 3 hours before freezing but is not clear on how often to swirl.... now i know how important that step is can you suggest how often to swirl and do you agree with the 3 hours?
 
chris says to leave the solution for 3 hours before freezing but is not clear on how often to swirl
I'm a bit unclear which solution you mean! Cooling the naphtha as slowly as possible helps with the formation of bigger and hence purer crystals. Preserving jars make this easier - you can wrap them in a towel - and placing them in the fridge before transferring to the freezer also helps.

If it's the bark soup and naphtha, the more swirling the better, while the suggested 3 hours likely incorporates a settling time to ensure all the solvent escapes from the soup and any emulsions get to break down. I'm pretty sure I got the first pulls for my first extraction done within half an hour or so and the yield was excellent, except this was almost two decades ago :D My soup was thickish but manageable, and I stirred it with a HDPE spoon to mix the naphtha in, much as I recall.
 
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