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Vice episode, bufo alvarious, Dr octavio

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Bdevall158

Bdevall158

Mind Wanderer
Interesting vice episode talking to Dr. Octavio who has spent the last 8 years working with the seri community in mexico combatig methamphetamine addiction with the 5 MEO DMT containing venom of the Bufo alvarious. Interesting to see someone finally bringing this medicine into the puplic eye, however we need to start a fundraiser to get the Dr a better vape piece :lol: I find it a little weird to use a meth pipe for combating meth addiction, but im sure its a little more difficult to find a GVG in mexico :p

gettig high with hallucinogenic toads vice
 
I was also skeptical on the pipe, but hey, at least its not meth. What a difference that must have been for them and their community! Thanks for sharing. :thumb_up:
 
This is not first hand so take it for what it is..and it looks like the webpage with the warning on him is suddenly gone...it was there for a while though.

The indigenous peoples he was working with, and who's land he harvested toad medicine from have demanded that he return the toad venom to them. they have stated that this man does NOT represent them or have permission to do ceremonies as if he does.

I hope that his intentions are good and that all of that is just some misunderstanding. With the status of these toads in the wild these days I hope that people are not out there poaching toad venom. Im not personally judging him..I dont know him I dont know his history I dont know his intentions..this is just something that was going around. I wish him well in his work and support him fully if his intentions are just to help spread healing with this medicine.
 
We met him at the aya2014 conference. He seemed like a friendly well intended guy, though I noticed his "facts" were a bit off, which made me question other statements he made. He'd have some mistaken ideas about chemistry and pharmacology, which are also present in this video. He'd for example talk about bufotenine transforming into 5-MeO-DMT in the body (though its the other way around )

And then in this vice docu they keep spreading misinformation, for example saying the toad contains bufotenine which isnt potent (? ) but then it is transformed into 5-meo-dmt when smoking (?!) Thats definitely not true, how can combustion add a methyl group to the 5 position ? Ive analysed a sample octavio gave me and it was quite clean 5-meo-dmt profile, so I wonder where they got this whole bufotenine misunderstanding from.

Also as jamie said there were some claims from supposedly the people representing those indigenous saying they do not authorize him, but I have no clue if the people writting that letter against octavio were legit, and what other possible motives they might have that we dont know.

Either way, I think this is just another reason why we should put more effort towards sustainability and self-empowerment, look into finding reliable 5-meo-dmt plant sources, and for those thinking of going the toad way, instruct them on humane respectful ways of 'milking' the toad, as well as educating people on small scale instead of large scale collections .
 
i chafed at the misinformation at first, but took the footage at face value and felt he was doing something ultimately very positive. It looked like he was releasing the toads after milking them, the shot of him doing so looked like it was right there on the spot, with a piece of glass he brought for that purpose.

I don't know anything about the letter, the guy does seem insistent on carrying a flag of bad science, which is unfortunate. I'm sure the Aya conference had ample opportunities to correct him on the fallacies he presents, idk. But overall, he's doing good, it appears.
 
endlessness said:
And then in this vice docu they keep spreading misinformation, for example saying the toad contains bufotenine which isnt potent (? ) but then it is transformed into 5-meo-dmt when smoking (?!) Thats definitely not true, how can combustion add a methyl group to the 5 position ? Ive analysed a sample octavio gave me and it was quite clean 5-meo-dmt profile, so I wonder where they got this whole bufotenine misunderstanding from.
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Hah, yeah I was watching it and like huh :?: ? Yeah I remember you talking about that in chat that it was clean 5-MeO. Im curious to know as well on how he got the info he did.
 
I enjoyed the video despite the factual errors. Its easy to forget that a lot of people haven't spent so much time digesting facts on the nexus, which is pretty cutting edge with information in my opinion. Especially if one is spending a lot of time healing people of physical addictions. There is still time for this man to learn, maybe someone here can kindly send an email educating him. As a md, i'm sure he would be open to learning more about his sacred chemical.


edited for irrelevance.
 
inaniel said:
It's sad but when a group of people in mexico demand that their 5-meo be returned, the alarm bells go off. i would think that either the cartel is behind it, or maybe they want to make money for themselves. that being said, it is only pure speculation as i've said i haven't read the letter and don't know much about it.
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Please avoid such unfounded speculation as it only adds to the rumor mill and provides zero credible addition to the discussion.
 
man why are we discussing drug cartels?..come on people..

Lets please stop this, and avoid spreading completely unfounded speculations. I simply brought up the issue because very recently there was a real document going around on the net, and now it's gone...but this speculation about drug cartels being involved is unlikely and pointless.
 
okay, fair enough. i edited it out. he posted his email in that reddit article, i may send him an email to find out why these things were said.




i am curious to ask though why it seems so unlikely to link the cartel which has murdered well over 60,000 people in mexico to an event which took place in one of the most notoriously cartel controlled areas which also involves an illegal drug which can be sold for profit? not to argue for speculative purposes but i simply don't understand how it would seem unlikely from a personal stand point.


i am curious why these people have claimed he murdered this woman, i google searched her name like the one guy on some random youtube video mentioned and she appears to have died falling off a cliff while touring. i haven't found anything linking dr octavio.
 
inaniel said:
i am curious to ask though why it seems so unlikely to link the cartel ...
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Because the document in question had nothing to do with any cartel but was presented as an open letter written by folks in one of the indigenous groups he had interacted with. In the letter, the writers claimed Dr. Rettig had in his possession a quantity of toad excretion that was not his to possess.

Cartels were never discussed and the context makes such involvement unlikely. We don't discuss buying/selling/pricing here, but the assertion that there was any notable profit to be had from the amounts discussed is similarly without basis. Without the letter, there's really not much to say that isn't inherently baseless conspiracy theory.
 
Looks like Dr Octavio is going to be giving a lecture in London on Sunday 3rd May at the Candid Arts Trust EC1V 1NQ. I'd love to go but it's the wrong side of the city for me. If anyone attends I'd love for them to post an update
 
Thanks for sharing. It's true they again spread misleading information regarding the chemistry and pharmacology of 5 MeO-dmt and bufo alvarius venom. Endlessness, do we find low bufotenin amount also in the sample ? What is it like beside 5 MeO-dmt ?
 
Pihuechenyi said:
Looks like Dr Octavio is going to be giving a lecture in London on Sunday 3rd May at the Candid Arts Trust EC1V 1NQ. I'd love to go but it's the wrong side of the city for me. If anyone attends I'd love for them to post an update
Click to expand...

I would like to know how he's funding his apparent globe trotting. Now, i don't think, nor am i suggesting, that he's affiliated with cartels (frankly, from what i know, they are into selling DRUGS not medicine. ), or reptilian Illuminati pineal harvesters, etc, I'm just curious. Maybe I'm jealous.
 
null24 said:
I would like to know how he's funding his apparent globe trotting. Now, i don't think, nor am i suggesting, that he's affiliated with cartels (frankly, from what i know, they are into selling DRUGS not medicine. ), or reptilian Illuminati pineal harvesters, etc, I'm just curious. Maybe I'm jealous.
Click to expand...

in mexico there is several people that makes "temazcales groups" giving people ayahusca in some natural protected places, the ask for a high retribution, they do this one weekend and one not, most people that attend to this groups does not know what they are doing, is just a bunch of hippies with money and since they are not well prepared to do ayahuasca a lot of the times they end al messed up on their heads, i had always said no to this practices because i dont even know if their aya infussion is well done or what concetration does it have, now imagine what happens to a non trained person which tries it.

well, this is how this people found their trips around the globe: willingly abusing people ignorance and making them take "medicine" they dont need and are not prepared to take at least yet but telling them is good for them because is good for them because is a mexican ancestral medicine for the soul by facebook announcements and propaganda.
 
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