Virola Resin: Oral Usage

[Dorge]

I agree we need caution with any of these medicines, especially if one does not know their dose response curve. But the last thing we need is a interweb rumor mill of 5meodmt and ayahuasca being deadly. I think you would agree that that is the last thing this community needs.
One thing to consider doing here is starting a thread and collecting from here as well as erowid a list of trip reports including weight and dose ranges of people who have tried that combination of 5meodmt with harmalas or caapi or rue. Make a list record it and put it on the wiki here. We could also include people who have just worked with reed canary grass which reportedly only has 5meodmt as it's base tryptamine profile.
If we so this what we are doing is accumulating evidence against the notion that it was 5meodmt mixed with rimas that was the cause of this young mans death. We can refute it in other words. If enough anecdotal evidence is provided then at least we as a community know.
What do you say feel up to that?

 

[Dorge]

There are currently about 16 TR of 5meodmt mixed with harmalas on erowid under the 5meodmt TR section. I've not checked them all but they could be smoked, insulflated, sublingual or oral people would have to check.

 

[narmz]

I agree we need caution with any of these medicines, especially if one does not know their dose response curve. But the last thing we need is a interweb rumor mill of 5meodmt and ayahuasca being deadly. I think you would agree that that is the last thing this community needs.

A peer reviewed scientific paper is not a rumor mill. Regardless of what you think the community 'needs', you have to take into account what actually happened. Someone died.

If we so this what we are doing is accumulating evidence against the notion that it was 5meodmt mixed with rimas that was the cause of this young mans death. We can refute it in other words. If enough anecdotal evidence is provided then at least we as a community know. What do you say feel up to that?

When you set out with an intention like 'accumulating evidence against the notion that it was 5meodmt mixed with rimas that was the cause of this young mans death', you are being biased. The evidence is right there in the paper, look at the 5meo levels in the mans blood. The fact that the levels found in the blood were exponentially higher than levels found in any plant, ever, should be evidence enough that 5-meo-dmt was added to the brew, it's obvious.

What we can conclude is that it is relatively safe to consume 5-meo-dmt containing plants, as the alkaloid profile is nowhere near the levels found in the death reported here, plant brews containing 5meo have been used for ages.

What we can also conclude is that there is a lethal dose for oral consumption of 5-meo-dmt, but as it was consumed with harmalas in this report we can't be certain that it is dangerous on its own - but it's not hard to draw conclusions for yourself about which of the alkaloid constituents played the largest role (again, look at the report, the blood levels speak for themselves).