• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Washing mescaline

Migrated topic.
antichode said:
Phlux- said:
mek re-x(the tek works well but its not so fun working with large volumes of hot mek)
Click to expand...

Can SWIY go into some more detail on this?
Click to expand...

"rather link you to the original tek i used - http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanic...llization-mescaline-hcl-attempt-w-photos.html"

Note that this same tech works for BOTH mescaline HCl and mescaline acetate. This is SWIM’s favorite cleanup method for mescaline acetate. Usually two re-crystallizations do the job very well.
 
Is it possible to cleanup Mescaline Acetate without the use of any MEK ?
It's very hard to get in some parts of the world .
 
Yes, MEK is a watched chemical in many parts of the world. In the USA you can get it at any local hardware shop OTC.

There are other possible cleanup methods that would work for sure. It’s just a matter of finding them. For example, a mix of ethanol and d-limonene at the right ratio would approximate the polarity of MEK and could be used for such a cleanup.

As of yet, no one has posted such a solvent mix. One exists for sure. It’s just a matter of finding the right ratio. I like the idea of a mix of ethanol and d-limonene because both can be purchased in food grade form in most parts of the world. Food grade ethanol can often be purchased in 95% pure form OTC, except where SWIM lives, food grade ethanol is banned unless highly diluted in water, so SWIM will not likely be the one to find this ratio with these two favorable food grade solvents. SWIM will likely use d-limonene with USP grade 99% IPA, which is similar to food grade, but IPA is not considered edible like ethanol.

As far as the food safe solvents go you have water, DMSO (controversial though), glycerol, ethanol, and d-limonene to work with. I don’t know of any other food grade solvent that’s easy to get OTC. Maybe others exist though.
 
Which would most likely give the purest final product out of these three:

1) Cleaning mescaline HCl with acetone twice and then 99% IPA once

2) Cleaning mescaline acetate with cold MEK

3) Dissolving mescaline HCl in boiling 99% IPA and then freezing

Also, regarding #3, does anyone know how one would figure out how much mescaline HCl to put in the boiling IPA? I assume that putting in too little would mean hardly any crystals would form; and that putting in too much would mean that some mescaline HCl & impurities wouldn't dissolve, thereby "polluting" the crystals that would form.

I have to say this recrystallization from boiling IPA could be the way to go - no need to mess with non-USP grade solvents!
 
BTW, a question for 69ron (and anyone else who cares to answer, actually) -

how do you obtain your hydrochloric acid? Do you just use hardware store-bought stuff or do you make your own? SWIM is thinking of making his own with rock salt and sulfuric acid from the hardware store (should be food grade that way :) )
 
SWIM uses HCl for pools. It is NOT food grade, but cannot be too hazardous either because it is for adjusting the pH of pool water and that comes in contact with human skin and children often swallow the water so it needs to follow certain toxicity guidelines. But it's NOT food grade and I don't recommend using it.

It's fine for a few extractions here and there, but if you value your health at all don't make a habit of using non food grade ingredients in your regular extractions. SWIM will use HCl very rarely and after his last bottle of HCl is used up he will never get it again unless he can find food grade HCl at no stronger than 10%.

With something like MEK, you can distill it to get reasonable purity from it. Heavy metals and many other similar toxins will not distill. Also if it has a toxin that can be distilled at 80C, it's highly likely that the toxin evaporates easily so it isn't of concern in the final product. Distillation should only be done with proper equipment. MEK is flammable, and distilling it improperly could catch your house on fire.

You can also distill a solution of hydrochloric acid to purify it to remove heavy metals and the like. This tends to cause escape of hydrogen chloride gas though, so it tends to weaken the solution. If you do this you need a proper still and a gas trap, otherwise your room will fill with hydrogen chloride gas which is extremely irritating and can cause things in the room to rust.

It's just all around better to use food grade ingredients. SWIM is moving away from using non-food grade ingredients for all his extractions and recommends that everyone do this. Without your health, you have nothing but death looming around the corner.
 
I have a question about washing mesc HCI.

I have trouble cleaning to white... this time, I have done 3 acetone washes, and doing a 2nd IPA wash... just to try and get rid of more the colour.

Should I dry out the mescaline each time I do a wash, i.e. take out as much of the solvent as possible and leave to dry? I'm guessing it shouldnt make much difference... I wonder though, if it makes a difference to let dry before doing the IPA wash?

Also - can MEK be substituted for acetone if doing an acetate wash?

Thx
 
For carbonate, if it even matters, as the only one the carbonate step seems to work for is SWIM:

SWIM dissolved as much as he could of the sticky carbonate resin in 91% IPA (where are you guys finding 99%?) then put it in the freezer. After a day or two, there was a significant layer of crystals coating the bottom of the container. He decanted the alcohol and collected the crystals with distilled water.

They were off-white and odorless with a bit of a yellowish tinge. SWIM never noticed anything but nice, clear headed effects from their ingestion. He wasn't sure if the impurities were completely removed of course, but he is satisfied.

The IPA was concentrated a bit and the process was repeated, yielding fewer crystals.
 
bufoman said:
Mescaline HCl is somewhat soluable in 99% IPA at roomtemp (not very). It can actually be used (must be boiling) to re-crystalize Mescaline HCl to give crystals. It is used commonly in the literature to purify mescaline.
Click to expand...
Bufoman, could you steer me to a source for this plssss? :)
 
Can anyone explain the theory behind what makes different salts of mescaline (i.e., citrate, fumarate, tartrate, HCl, acetate, and carbonate) more or less soluble in different solvents? I know it has to do with polarity, but that's about it.

SWIM dreams of experimenting with different types of mecaline salts, and finding one that can be purified easily without the need for petroleum-based solvents or even acetone.

From PlainCoil's description, it sounds like mescaline carbonate could be promising.


ADDIT:
Here is a thread from a few months back that may prove useful for this discussion.

Also, another idea: what about washing mescaline acetate with d-limonene? If you just did 69ron's d-limo & vinegar tek and had some of the sticky brown mescaline acetate, could it be purified by simply adding clean d-limo, and stirring it vigorously until d-limonene-soluble impurities were dissolved into the d-limo?

The remaining solids (which, I'm imagining/hoping, would be pure mescaline acetate) could be separated from the limonene by adding water until the all the solid dissolved, separating the water layer from the limonene, and then evapping the water. Might this give pure mescaline acetate?

The one caveat that stands out to me is that if some of the impurities are alkaloids, they might have the same solubility properties as mescaline acetate (i.e., and not be removable by this strategy)
 
If you decanted, then only a very tiny amount of d-limonene would remain as residue. I don't think it would matter, and it surely wouldn't affect the trip any.

For SWIM the main reason for cleaning mescaline acetate is not to get nice clean crystals, but to get rid of the other alkaloids present. It’s a plus to have nice clean powder instead of sticky material, but that’s just a side benefit for SWIM. SWIM does NOT like the other alkaloids at all and wants a pure mescaline experience. They cloud up the mescaline experience. By heating the dirty mescaline acetate in MEK and freeze precipitating it 2 times, the results feel like pure mescaline to SWIM. That mind fog is gone. The crystals are nearly white and no longer sticky. The effects are fantastic after the cleanup. It really makes a huge difference in the experience and is worth the effort.

I think d-limonene is too non-polar to work for cleaning up mescaline acetate, but maybe I’m wrong. It’s possible that hot d-limonene would work if room temperature d-limonene doesn’t.
 
Touche Guevara said:
The thing is, limonene itself will leave residue upon evaporation.
Click to expand...

That's just it... I was thinking you could remove 95% of the d-limonene, and then add some water to dissolve the mescaline & associated solids. Separate the water and d-limonene layers, and evap water. You'll have the (hopefully) clean mescaline acetate and no limonene.
 
69ron said:
I think d-limonene is too non-polar to work for cleaning up mescaline acetate, but maybe I’m wrong. It’s possible that hot d-limonene would work if room temperature d-limonene doesn’t.
Click to expand...

Do you think that d-limonene is likely to remove any of the non-mescaline alkaloids that come out with mescaline acetate after adding vinegar in the "limonene and vinegar" tek, or is that hard to speculate on?
 
Well, SWIM gave it a try. D-limonene on it’s own would not dissolve anything. He put 500 mg of impure amber waxy mescaline acetate in 3 ml of d-limonene for quite a while and nothing absorbed. He then added 0.8 ml of 99% IPA (making it 21% IPA) and mixed and then the d-limonene took on some color. He decanted, and repeated a few times. He dried the mescaline in a food dehydrator at 155 F. It dried to a white powder with an orange tint. Testing showed it to be very pure, enough that the other alkaloids could not be felt at all, however the yield went down to 29%. That’s WAY TOO MUCH LOSS. So SWIM added a little more d-limonene to the washes he saved to make it 11% IPA and let it sit overnight.

The following morning there were pure white mescaline acetate crystals present in the d-limonene surrounded by orange crystals. The mescaline acetate and the orange alkaloid(s) were crystallizing separately. SWIM says it looks BEAUTIFUL.

So anyhow, from this test we know that room temperature d-limonene on its own cannot clean mescaline acetate at all. Adding 21% by weight of 99% IPA to the d-limonene made it too polar so that a lot of mescaline acetate was dissolved. With 11% IPA in the d-limonene wash mescaline acetate and other alkaloids started crystallizing in the d-limonene.
 
69ron said:
Well, SWIM gave it a try. D-limonene on it’s own would not dissolve anything. He put 500 mg of impure amber waxy mescaline acetate in 3 ml of d-limonene for quite a while and nothing absorbed. He then added 0.8 ml of 99% IPA (making it 21% IPA) and mixed and then the d-limonene took on some color. He decanted, and repeated a few times. He dried the mescaline in a food dehydrator at 155 F. It dried to a white powder with an orange tint. Testing showed it to be very pure, enough that the other alkaloids could not be felt at all, however the yield went down to 29%. That’s WAY TOO MUCH LOSS. So SWIM added a little more d-limonene to the washes he saved to make it 11% IPA and let it sit overnight.

The following morning there were pure white mescaline acetate crystals present in the d-limonene surrounded by orange crystals. The mescaline acetate and the orange alkaloid(s) were crystallizing separately. SWIM says it looks BEAUTIFUL.
Click to expand...

I take it IPA and d-limonene are totally miscible?

Just so I know I've got this straight, SWIY basically dissolved impure mescaline acetate in room temp 21% IPA & 79% d-limonene (by weight), and then added limonene to make it only 11% IPA, and then let the mixture sit? And SWIY was able to separate the white crystals from the orange?

Has SWIY tried putting the 11% IPA mixture in the freezer? Maybe this would precipitate out more xtals... Also has SWIY tried adding more d-limonene (to further drop the percentage of IPA)?
 
w0mbat said:
I take it IPA and d-limonene are totally miscible?
Click to expand...

Yes they are completely miscible.

w0mbat said:
Just so I know I've got this straight, SWIY basically dissolved impure mescaline acetate in room temp 21% IPA & 79% d-limonene (by weight), and then added limonene to make it only 11% IPA, and then let the mixture sit?
Click to expand...

Yes, and before adding more d-limonene he decanting what little mescaline acetate wouldn’t dissolve in the mix.

w0mbat said:
And SWIY was able to separate the white crystals from the orange?
Click to expand...

No, they haven’t been disturbed yet. Some are clearly separate and easy to pick out, while some others are grown together. There’s no blending of the two colors seen, but some are sort of intertwined.

There might be some utility here. These crystals are not forming as one mix like they tend to do when they evaporate in vinegar, so maybe if something additional can be done to help separate them this could be a good way of isolating the colored alkaloids from the white ones. The white crystals are mescaline acetate and might have something else in them. My guess is that it’s nearly pure mescaline acetate. I think there’s only really two major alkaloids, one is white (mescaline acetate) and the other is orange or amber (no clue what it is).

w0mbat said:
Has SWIY tried putting the 11% IPA mixture in the freezer? Maybe this would precipitate out more xtals... Also has SWIY tried adding more d-limonene (to further drop the percentage of IPA)?
Click to expand...

He has not tried freezing it or adding more d-limonene. Both are likely to drop out more alkaloids. He’s letting it evaporate slowly to form vary large crystals. Maybe he’ll take a photo of them when it’s done. They are very beautiful.

The main problem is that both the white and orange alkaloids are forming crystals. This is NOT good. This means the mescaline acetate and the orange junk have a very similar solubility in this solvent mix.

SWIM is planning to work with d-limonene more. He wants to try using hot d-limonene instead of adding IPA to it. Perhaps either mescaline or the orange junk is soluble in hot d-limonene and not both. That would be great.

Note that the original mescaline acetate left over from decanting the d-limonene:IPA mix was tested after thoroughly drying it. 80 mg was added to a cup of coffee. The taste of the d-limonene was present giving the coffee a fruity taste which SWIM did not like. The effects were indistinguishable to the effects of pure mescaline.
 
69ron said:
No, they haven’t been disturbed yet. Some are clearly separate and easy to pick out, while some others are grown together. There’s no blending of the two colors seen, but some are sort of intertwined.
Click to expand...
Sounds interesting... a picture is worth a thousand words :D 8)


69ron said:
Note that the original mescaline acetate left over from decanting the d-limonene:IPA mix was tested after thoroughly drying it. 80 mg was added to a cup of coffee. The taste of the d-limonene was present giving the coffee a fruity taste which SWIM did not like. The effects were indistinguishable to the effects of pure mescaline.
Click to expand...

Very cool... Could probably get rid of the d-limonene taste by dissolving in water, separating out the remaining d-limonene, and then evapping the water again.


Has SWIY thought about saving some of the orange junk to test it's solubility properties? Would it be instructive to know if it were more or less polar than mescaline acetate (i.e., for the purpose of choosing which solvent to use to remove it from mescaline acetate)? The more we learn about the orange junk, the more ways we can find of eliminating it...

BTW, was the mescaline acetate your friend started out with from... San Pedro?
 
Back
Top Bottom