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What about MDMA and 5MEO-DMT?

G

GGG

Esteemed member
First, I know that combining serotonine releasers with 5MEO- DMT is serious , maybe dangerous stuff.
I have heard good things about this combo, MDMA should (theoretically at least) take care of most (if not all) fear and panic before the breakthrough. Is this true? Anyone has first- hand experiene with this?
I am very interested in this topic as it is incredibly hard for me to surrender and let go of control (childhood issues) so the ego death part is horrendous (literally kicking and screaming and almost dying from high bloodpressure for 10+ minutes). I am very healthy otherwise.
I have done quit a bit of MDMA in my life and know all the harm reduction techniques, I know it is also safe like 3 times/ year.
But what about both? I know Martin Ball talks about this but cannot find any resources.
Any first- hand experience with this? Any insight is also welcome!
If working, this would be God- sent for me ( like the molecule surely already is).

Thank you!
 
> I know Martin Ball talks about this but cannot find any resources.
I wouldn't refer to Martin Ball as to ANY source of authority on this subject.
I know he must've taken lots of 5Meo, but it looks that he also had too many chakras opened at once for a regular person, if you get what I mean :)

Can't say anything for the combo itself though, but I imagine that it wouldn't be healthy to take both of these substances.
I don't have any experience with 5Meo, but reading a lot of reports it is a very powerful substance, often partakers report 5meo taking them to the god-levels of intensity and giving them spiritual experiences.
MDMA on the other hand, I have quite a decent experience with. Besides being empathogen and mood enhancer, is very taxing on the one's body and neurochemistry, even if it doesn't feel so when you are high.

I mean if there are systems in human body that are bound to take X% amount of load for life and can take Y% amount of heavier load for shorter time, then why put them to stress-test? :)

If youre concern is fear of blastoff, then maybe it's better to mediate it with more traditional methods, like: calming herbal teas, meditation, chanting singing and annointing yourself, making or having a ritual. As I understand it is dangerous to take 5Meo by yourself alone, so whoever is your facilittor, it should be their job to make you feel comfortable and calm before launch.

Taking chemical approach doesn't sound right to me in this case.
 
GGG said:
First, I know that combining serotonine releasers with 5MEO- DMT is serious , maybe dangerous stuff.
I have heard good things about this combo, MDMA should (theoretically at least) take care of most (if not all) fear and panic before the breakthrough. Is this true? Anyone has first- hand experiene with this?
I am very interested in this topic as it is incredibly hard for me to surrender and let go of control (childhood issues) so the ego death part is horrendous (literally kicking and screaming and almost dying from high bloodpressure for 10+ minutes). I am very healthy otherwise.
I have done quit a bit of MDMA in my life and know all the harm reduction techniques, I know it is also safe like 3 times/ year.
But what about both? I know Martin Ball talks about this but cannot find any resources.
Any first- hand experience with this? Any insight is also welcome!
If working, this would be God- sent for me ( like the molecule surely already is).

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I've been doing DMT for a few months and not broken through yet. I still feel it a very positive thing in my life. I'm busy, but I'm scar't too. I read somewhere that some might do better to hang around at lower doses and learn for a while. Work through those issues. Sure won't hurt.

Do sub breakthrough doses for a while. Try smoking some Harmalas ahead of them. Some people on here do lower doses and then smoke more if they feel it. (within a few minutes)
Also, it only takes about an hour before you lose most of your tolerance and you're kinda acclimated at that point.
 
Yes, I know these tactics for DMT but 5MEO-DMT is a completely different beast, Harmalas are not a good idea, even dangerous as far as I know.
I also know of people doing MDMA with DTM but heard conflicting reports, for some it is incredible for others it is blunted.
Thanks for your input!
 
GGG said:
Yes, I know these tactics for DMT but 5MEO-DMT is a completely different beast, Harmalas are not a good idea, even dangerous as far as I know.
I also know of people doing MDMA with DTM but heard conflicting reports, for some it is incredible for others it is blunted.
Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...
Ooops. Sorry about that. I was thinking of DMT.
However, strangely enough I have fairly extensive experience with 5-Meo when it was legal. It was the first RC psychedelic you could get. I missed the "golden age" of RC's as I gave up all drugs for a couple decades to raise my daughter.

Anyway, with 5-Meo, perhaps our goals are/were different. I was kinda looking for a recreational kind of trip. You don't really get that with 5-meo. I find it actually has dysphoria.

So anyway, for different reasons, I also generally did lower end doses of 5-Meo. I mixed it with Anadenthera, mushrooms, low dose acid, etc. to try to make it a bit more pleasant. It was legal and I had grams of it and sometimes I would smoke it steadily for a while until the walls were breathing and bubbling like a volcano. so, sneaking up on it has some value in a way. I smoked 5-Meo all weekend for months although it's still far from my favorite psychedelic.

Occasionally I would go for what I called a breakthrough at the time. Smoke enough and I would be traveling down a kaleidoscopic tunnel. However, it was as if the kaleidoscope was made of not real colorful paper. Soft pastels and very subdued colors, shades of brown a lot.

We didn't know about the dangers of Harmalas with 5-Meo at the time. I did mix them a fair amount. I discovered that smoking some Rue and then smoking very small amounts of 5-Meo would give me an intense high. However, still not a lot of euphoria. So I discovered on my own that it was a bit of an H-bomb.

Some other time I will tell the story of smoking 5-Meo all day, so having a high blood level maybe, and then smoking just 4-5 Rue seeds. (I felt like I was possessed, ne'mind)

Are you going for the "white light"?
At the end of my 5-Meo exploration, as I was preparing to gird my loins for decades of sobriety, I came across the little ash tray that I mixed my blend in. (I infused the 5-Meo onto parsley) There was a little bit of parsley left in it, about enough for a hit. So, I scraped it into my little pipe and hit it. As soon as I got the hit down, I realized that I had gotten a fair amount of the pure chemical from the walls of the ashtray. The hit tasted quite chemically.

As I exhaled it, I had just enough time to slump down into my chair so that I would not fall out of it. Thinking, "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, I've killed myself", my world filled with the white light. The light started white but quickly became red and angry as if God was mad at me for killing myself just when I was needed to raise my kid. As it intensified, there were no more thoughts in my head. Then there was no more me...

Coming back in my chair, the walls were breathing and moving as I've never seen before or since. I came down rapidly, as you do, and put everything away for a few years. Relapsed for a few years, when I got back on track, gave the rest of my 5-Meo and such away. Shame really.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble and sorry if I hijacked. Tell me more about your 5-Meo usage, goals, dosage levels, etc.
 
Yes, I am aiming for breakthrough , not recreational use, I pretty much don't do psychedelics for recreational purpose, for me, they are holy.
I have been there before, met God, was one with the Universe, full Non-Duality.
But in order to get there, I had to die a horrible death as I could not let go of control and surrender. More than a year passed and I am not ready to go again.
I have heard people talking about going for that after a peak of MDMA. You start from a loving space and almost all fear vanishes. Also I know of people flipping MDMA with LSD, heard wonderful stories about this also. But it is not for everyone.
I don't see 5-MEO DMT to be used for something else than the full Entheogenic experience. As I see it, it is just not here for something else. For inner work and other stuff you have the other psychedelics (some brilliant for that, like Iboga). 5 MEO-DMT is a rocket that will lead you directly and merge you with the Source.
Trying to get that rocket launch a bit smoother :)
BTW, I am glad to hear all inputs!
 
GGG said:
Yes, I am aiming for breakthrough , not recreational use, I pretty much don't do psychedelics for recreational purpose, for me, they are holy.
I have been there before, met God, was one with the Universe, full Non-Duality.
But in order to get there, I had to die a horrible death as I could not let go of control and surrender. More than a year passed and I am not ready to go again.
I have heard people talking about going for that after a peak of MDMA. You start from a loving space and almost all fear vanishes. Also I know of people flipping MDMA with LSD, heard wonderful stories about this also. But it is not for everyone.
I don't see 5-MEO DMT to be used for something else than the full Entheogenic experience. As I see it, it is just not here for something else. For inner work and other stuff you have the other psychedelics (some brilliant for that, like Iboga). 5 MEO-DMT is a rocket that will lead you directly and merge you with the Source.
Trying to get that rocket launch a bit smoother :)
BTW, I am glad to hear all inputs!
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I have used psychedelics as a sacrament as well. It's mostly what I'm about now.
Anyway. What about a light dose of LSD? Be less physical load and would prolly make letting go easier.
 
You mean a light dose of LSD and 5-MEO DMT at the peak of the LSD dose? Never thought of that before but does sound interesting. Have you done this?
 
If you'd like a detailed explanation of the potential risks of an MDMA/5 combo, the Spirit Pharmacist site offers a great PDF. The info contained in it goes way beyond just that though, and it's a really valuable resource for anyone interested in working with 5-MeO-DMT.

The TLDR for the combo is that it's not recommended due to both their combined heavy interaction with the serotonergic system.

www.spiritpharmacist.com

Spirit Pharmacist's Five Guide

Download your copy of the 'Five Guide' detailing the pharmacology and drug interactions of 5-MeO-DMT
www.spiritpharmacist.com www.spiritpharmacist.com

Also, here's a really handy reference for drug interactions in general.

 
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This leads me to contemplate the possible utility of low dose mescaline as a physically benign empathogen in this instance. It would still be necessary for me to do some considerable background research, so don't take this as any kind of a recommendation. Always research thoroughly before try a new drug combination.

I've checked the Erowid experience reports and there is nothing which specifically refers to this particular combination!
 
GGG said:
First, I know that combining serotonine releasers with 5MEO- DMT is serious , maybe dangerous stuff.
I have heard good things about this combo, MDMA should (theoretically at least) take care of most (if not all) fear and panic before the breakthrough. Is this true? Anyone has first- hand experiene with this?
I am very interested in this topic as it is incredibly hard for me to surrender and let go of control (childhood issues) so the ego death part is horrendous (literally kicking and screaming and almost dying from high bloodpressure for 10+ minutes). I am very healthy otherwise.
I have done quit a bit of MDMA in my life and know all the harm reduction techniques, I know it is also safe like 3 times/ year.
But what about both? I know Martin Ball talks about this but cannot find any resources.
Any first- hand experience with this? Any insight is also welcome!
If working, this would be God- sent for me ( like the molecule surely already is).

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Sounds like a bad idea. Best not to play around with physiological systems and experimental drug interactions with something so potent.
I would also question why you are so desperate to take 5meo if your reaction is that bad and traumatic.
You say yourself you have childhood issues that come up. Work on resolving these first I would say. Introspection, meditation and a drug like LSD would seem far more suited to help resolve some of these issues gradually rather than trying to bludgeon your way into some godhead experience that your psyche seems unwilling or unready to accept at this time.
 
Panpsychic said:
Sounds like a bad idea. Best not to play around with physiological systems and experimental drug interactions with something so potent.
I would also question why you are so desperate to take 5meo if your reaction is that bad and traumatic.
You say yourself you have childhood issues that come up. Work on resolving these first I would say. Introspection, meditation and a drug like LSD would seem far more suited to help resolve some of these issues gradually rather than trying to bludgeon your way into some godhead experience that your psyche seems unwilling or unready to accept at this time.
Click to expand...
If you check my second comment, not exactly what I was saying. The Godhead experience was by far, far the most rewarding thing I have done in my whole life, and by no means was my psyche unwilling and unready to accept it. On the contrary, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. That is why I want to go back! What I am searching for are ways to ease the path there not to avoid the end. I guess Non-Duality can by no means be bad and traumatic.
Thanks for all the inputs!
 
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I'm big into 5meo as well and I run into the same issue where the edges of ego death are brutal and terrifying. I've also searched for a secondary chemical that might make the transition easier, but I've never had what I'd consider a real success. Ketamine was somewhat successful in the way it numbs the fear, but it also numbs the conscious experience, which is the last thing you want when you're trying to experience your true self as consciousness itself.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but your best bet in making it easier might be the slow and methodical process of learning meditation. Since 5meo and meditation are aiming in the same direction, that can help by making it so you've already taken a few steps towards where 5meo is going to throw you.
 
Voidmatrix said:
Recipe for serotonin syndrome if I'm not mistaken.

One love
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As far as I know and have researched, risk of serotonine sindrom is very, very low, no MAOI in the recipe, MDMA is a serotonine releaser
Love and Light
 
Here&Now said:
I'm big into 5meo as well and I run into the same issue where the edges of ego death are brutal and terrifying. I've also searched for a secondary chemical that might make the transition easier, but I've never had what I'd consider a real success. Ketamine was somewhat successful in the way it numbs the fear, but it also numbs the conscious experience, which is the last thing you want when you're trying to experience your true self as consciousness itself.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but your best bet in making it easier might be the slow and methodical process of learning meditation. Since 5meo and meditation are aiming in the same direction, that can help by making it so you've already taken a few steps towards where 5meo is going to throw you.
Click to expand...
Oh, yes, this is really what I wanted to hear and thank you for that. ANY input is welcome! And this is a valuable one. I was thinking of trying Ket in the mix, might give it a try.
I know that meditation is the safest answer but having a hard time with it because of my ADHD. I will redouble the effort.
Might also be that there are no real shortcuts and that the terror and fear of death are the correct price for that supreme experience. This is somehow what my intuition is telling me.
The fear legitimizes the experience
 
GGG said:
Oh, yes, this is really what I wanted to hear and thank you for that. ANY input is welcome! And this is a valuable one. I was thinking of trying Ket in the mix, might give it a try.
I know that meditation is the safest answer but having a hard time with it because of my ADHD. I will redouble the effort.
Might also be that there are no real shortcuts and that the terror and fear of death are the correct price for that supreme experience. This is somehow what my intuition is telling me.
The fear legitimizes the experience
Click to expand...
^^^ Maybe the death before rebirth must be at least a little hard. I'm sure you can improve things, though. Heck, I'm wondering if some time with reg DMT might be useful. There are similarities in the fear and in the alien-ness.

Anyway I've only light dosed LSD ahead of more moderate 5-Meo doses. Intensified that and made it more funner.
(Don't want you to think I'm all about recreational doses. They were never my sole focus and now less than ever.)
 
GGG said:
If you check my second comment, not exactly what I was saying. The Godhead experience was by far, far the most rewarding thing I have done in my whole life, and by no means was my psyche unwilling and unready to accept it. On the contrary, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. That is why I want to go back! What I am searching for are ways to ease the path there not to avoid the end. I guess Non-Duality can by no means be bad and traumatic.
Thanks for all the inputs!
Click to expand...
The psyche has many layers to it, and it seems that not all of the layers are ready for this otherwise these reactions wouldn't be so extreme. I dont think enlightenment is something that one enters or should enter kicking and screaming. This is why I suggested to consider working with something like LSD to address these issues more gradually.

The danger of the path you are trying to take is it could be what is called 'spiritual bypassing'.

However I think your other statement, that perhaps the fear is part of what you have to pay for this experience may also be true to an extent; 5meo seems to bring with it real risks and dangers on a bodily level as well so if you want to experience death before you die then maybe these are all parts of the initiation it can put you through.
 
GGG said:
Oh, yes, this is really what I wanted to hear and thank you for that. ANY input is welcome! And this is a valuable one. I was thinking of trying Ket in the mix, might give it a try.
I know that meditation is the safest answer but having a hard time with it because of my ADHD. I will redouble the effort.
Might also be that there are no real shortcuts and that the terror and fear of death are the correct price for that supreme experience. This is somehow what my intuition is telling me.
The fear legitimizes the experience
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that ketamine not only reduces fear, but it also potentiates the 5meo a decent amount. So you might want to experiment with lower doses of both to find the amount of K you'd like to use in the mix (for me it was in the 'threshold/light' range), and then work up to a breakthrough dose of 5meo.
 
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