what does this look like to you?

[Atmozic]

Serious question, I tried another extraction and I keep getting to this floaty substance after freeze precipitation. What does this look like to you? At first I thought alkaloids and tried Evap then freeze again with less solvent but it doesn't seem to want to budge from this state. Even after 24-48 hours

When I scrape it either there's the resin or a sludge type rather than actual crystals. I am using ACRB and on a previous extraction I did actually get crystals but in that case I did 1 pull and froze from there.

So based on this - what would you suggest?

 

[Atmozic]

For reference what's in there is 3 pulls that was evap before freezing (down to about 40% of original volume). The material did go cloudy as soon as it hit the container, so I know it's working (cloudy solution, the other was MH powder to test a theory I had regarding demineralised vs. local tap water).

 

[Exitwound]

When I scrape it either there's the resin or a sludge type rather than actual crystals. I am using ACRB and on a previous extraction I did actually get crystals but in that case I did 1 pull and froze from there.

So based on this - what would you suggest?

First of all reading this:

..Enough GOO questions! read this.. - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Then reading this:

DMT(s) Analysis Compilation [1H-/13C-NMR/HPLC/LC-MS] - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

TL;DR: You don't need crystals to smoalk

 

[Th Entity]

Oils/fats is my guess ACRB have more of them than MHRB, i would advice you to start doing deffats (if you doing STB now, switch to A/B when extracting from ACRB + deffat after acidification so the results can be consistent. Check your freezer temperature!

Dmt FREEBASE is soluble in non polar, fats/oils are too, so you pull both togheter in your pulls and when you drop the temp they clump togheter forming active "vomit" instead of crystals which can float on top of your solvent. However DMT is DMT.. period. Crystals,goo,wax whatever..! Good Luck :thumb_up:

 

[Atmozic]

Oils/fats is my guess ACRB have more of them than MHRB, i would advice you to start doing deffats (if you doing STB now, switch to A/B when extracting from ACRB + deffat after acidification so the results can be consistent. Check your freezer temperature!

Dmt FREEBASE is soluble in non polar, fats/oils are too, so you pull both togheter in your pulls and when you drop the temp they clump togheter forming active "vomit" instead of crystals which can float on top of your solvent. However DMT is DMT.. period. Crystals,goo,wax whatever..! Good Luck :thumb_up:

Thanks for that, it was driving me mad wondering whether I'd done it wrong or not. For the record I was/am using Cyb's hybrid, I actually didn't do a defat this time around as I do believe (and wanted to test) that the tap water where I am is having a significantly detrimental effect on my extractions (due to impurities).

The last attempt at extraction did yield some DMT freebase however it was this semi-formed sludge (like a Ferrero Rocher chocolate) which was after doing a defat BUT with tap water, so this time I wanted to try without defat and with Demineralised/Deionised water.

Just a question when I did my defat last time I was sucking up a lot of emulsion in the mix. On one extraction I did do a defat and did get crystals (though was not able to replicate in the second attempt) however after one pull there was approximately 70mg (it was good). While the goodies wouldn't have been available as it was before salting, I can't imagine the potential yield would have been affected that severely from just removing emulsions?

 

[Atmozic]

When I scrape it either there's the resin or a sludge type rather than actual crystals. I am using ACRB and on a previous extraction I did actually get crystals but in that case I did 1 pull and froze from there.

So based on this - what would you suggest?

First of all reading this:

..Enough GOO questions! read this.. - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Then reading this:

DMT(s) Analysis Compilation [1H-/13C-NMR/HPLC/LC-MS] - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

TL;DR: You don't need crystals to smoalk

Thanks for that, I did give it a read (though wouldn't remember half of it other than stating the "goo" was often very active, and a higher weight than crystals and perfectly usable).

The second link looks very useful and I thought I saw one that looked relatively close to what I have, so I will give it a read soon.

To clarify - I do know that crystal isn't the be-all and end-all. In fact I put a semi post/rant about what is actually bugging me the most. And that is just the simple fact that despite following a recipe (which is all a Tek is) to the best of my understanding I seem to get results that are miles apart from what was actually intended. Ideally I want to at least be able to do this one tek first, and know how to do it properly, then expand on that, rather than quit halfway to start another method, then quit halfway and so on and so forth.

 

[Th Entity]

I can't imagine the potential yield would have been affected that severely from just removing emulsions?

i can imagine it :lol: because emulsions can/will "trap" freebase DMT i cant tell you how much DMT emulsions could trap (depends on the size of the emulsion), but that does not surprise me at all. Thats bizzare to me that you decided to remove emulsion from mixing container instead of breaking it down. How did you remove it? Pipetee?

Tips: Instead of Deionized/Distilled water try with filtered water or grocery store water bottle with plenty of ions dissolved in it. (To be honest it doesnt really matter you can use deionized, distilled, filtered, mineral water, table water, reverse osmosis water even).

Dont remove/pipete/suck emulsions out of extraction vessel instead you can use heat bath and let it sit (patience) + add more saline solution or NaOH solution or i even seen some people use vibrating dildos to break emulsions down.

Defat. Especially if working with ACRB

If you havent figured out what to do with the product in the picture and you dont want to smoke/vape it i recommend you do a mini a/b on it. Good Luck :thumb_up:

 

[Atmozic]

I can't imagine the potential yield would have been affected that severely from just removing emulsions?

i can imagine it :lol: because emulsions can/will "trap" freebase DMT i cant tell you how much DMT emulsions could trap (depends on the size of the emulsion), but that does not surprise me at all. Thats bizzare to me that you decided to remove emulsion from mixing container instead of breaking it down. How did you remove it? Pipetee?

Tips: Instead of Deionized/Distilled water try with filtered water or grocery store water bottle with plenty of ions dissolved in it. (To be honest it doesnt really matter you can use deionized, distilled, filtered, mineral water, table water, reverse osmosis water even).

Dont remove/pipete/suck emulsions out of extraction vessel instead you can use heat bath and let it sit (patience) + add more saline solution or NaOH solution or i even seen some people use vibrating dildos to break emulsions down.

Defat. Especially if working with ACRB

If you havent figured out what to do with the product in the picture and you dont want to smoke/vape it i recommend you do a mini a/b on it. Good Luck :thumb_up:

Removal of the emulsion was the result of doing a defat and attempting to draw out the NPS before adding salt. Because of the container I was using and no small amount of fixation on the next step rather than the overall result I attempted to draw out from the container (which for reference is a taller bottle) and couldn't get a good crack at it with a pipette (3mL) so I managed to get some of the naphtha out but took up some of the emulsion with it.

fast forward to the point of adding base and the unintended consequence of not being able to remove completely I had actually over-filled the container (or was on a collision course for that) so I had to tip some of the mixture out (careful decanting). Now I can't stress enough how the yield wasn't really worrying me, as long as I could see if the technique worked or not I would be happy.

Then, on my second attempt I got a turkey baster (a really bad one as I discovered) which didn't seal properly and was low quality as far as the tube, so the baster itself "burned" (as plastic does when exposed to solvents) after drawing out. I should also mention that when I read Cyb's MAX ION tek and attempted to replicate the defat, because I didn't see any mention of saving emulsion I assumed (incorrectly) that it was part of the material to be discarded along with the solvent.

As far as removing emulsion I'm actually thinking about getting up to the salt stage in a pyrex measuring jug first, which would allow easier access to solvent during defat and a gentler mixing process which I think (correct me if I'm wrong....PLEASE *hands out in prayer* ) would help in reducing the amount of emulsion created?

Adding the NaOH and NaCl to the mix is a solution that can easily be applied, getting a vibrator, well I'll have to swallow my pride on that one.

I did want to do a mini a/b for my next attempt, taking the lead from this post here:

ACRB TEK 100g "PICS" (Newbie Friendly) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

So hopefully it works out. :thumb_up:

 

[Atmozic]

Oils/fats is my guess ACRB have more of them than MHRB, i would advice you to start doing deffats (if you doing STB now, switch to A/B when extracting from ACRB + deffat after acidification so the results can be consistent. Check your freezer temperature!

Dmt FREEBASE is soluble in non polar, fats/oils are too, so you pull both togheter in your pulls and when you drop the temp they clump togheter forming active "vomit" instead of crystals which can float on top of your solvent. However DMT is DMT.. period. Crystals,goo,wax whatever..! Good Luck :thumb_up:

Oh I also forgot to mention - I used a basic thermometer which had a measured range of -10degC but the needle was going well below that, so while I can't say it's -20degC I am confident it is in the right range for freeze-precip.

 

[Atmozic]

If you havent figured out what to do with the product in the picture and you dont want to smoke/vape it i recommend you do a mini a/b on it. Good Luck :thumb_up:

is it possible then that what I currently have wouldn't react well to a RE-X? I tried doing a re-x on this sort of stuff from previous extractions only to come up with next to nothing, when you mention it will pull with NPS along with DMT then I'm guessing it would do nothing to it.

 

[Th Entity]

Dont do re-x on too dirty/oily product because it wont re-x correctly to do a good effective re-x your product have to already be sufficiently pure (if you get for example yellow crystals one could re-x to obtain purer product but if you have kinda liquid active goo i dont think the re-x would be the most effective procedure, instead do mini A/B on liquidy goo followed by re-x.

To PREVENT emulsion: dont shake stir vigoriously instead swirl the container gently or turn end over end your container to mix the contents, create a whirlpool effect instead of hard shaking, add your saline (NaCL, salt (non iodized)) solution after acidification and before defat.

Dont take emulsions out, not during defat not during basification BREAK IT DOWN dont suck it out.

To BREAK emulsion: I already explained. Note: If you form emulsion during defat add saline solution if you form emulsion during pulling (extracting after basification) add NaOH solution.

As far as removing emulsion I'm actually thinking about getting up to the salt stage in a pyrex measuring jug first, which would allow easier access to solvent during defat and a gentler mixing process which I think (correct me if I'm wrong....PLEASE *hands out in prayer* ) would help in reducing the amount of emulsion created?

Yes gentle mixing of both phases instead of shaking hard is a good idea.

If you feel i didnt answer something feel free to ask.

 

[Atmozic]

Dont do re-x on too dirty/oily product because it wont re-x correctly to do a good effective re-x your product have to already be sufficiently pure (if you get for example yellow crystals one could re-x to obtain purer product but if you have kinda liquid active goo i dont think the re-x would be the most effective procedure, instead do mini A/B on liquidy goo followed by re-x.

To PREVENT emulsion: dont shake stir vigoriously instead swirl the container gently or turn end over end your container to mix the contents, create a whirlpool effect instead of hard shaking, add your saline (NaCL, salt (non iodized)) solution after acidification and before defat.

Dont take emulsions out, not during defat not during basification BREAK IT DOWN dont suck it out.

To BREAK emulsion: I already explained. Note: If you form emulsion during defat add saline solution if you form emulsion during pulling (extracting after basification) add NaOH solution.

As far as removing emulsion I'm actually thinking about getting up to the salt stage in a pyrex measuring jug first, which would allow easier access to solvent during defat and a gentler mixing process which I think (correct me if I'm wrong....PLEASE *hands out in prayer* ) would help in reducing the amount of emulsion created?

Yes gentle mixing of both phases instead of shaking hard is a good idea.

If you feel i didnt answer something feel free to ask.

That does explain why when I tried to do a re-x on the globby stuff along with crystals it seemingly went backwards, my sincere thanks for that. Actually I don't do too badly most times when it comes to emulsion as I mix using a "bicycle pedal" motion at all times, and my best efforts to keep it as gentle as possible however I don't experience much in that sense, however that particular method to break depending on stage I had no idea on

Once again thank you

 

[Atmozic]

Dont do re-x on too dirty/oily product because it wont re-x correctly to do a good effective re-x your product have to already be sufficiently pure (if you get for example yellow crystals one could re-x to obtain purer product but if you have kinda liquid active goo i dont think the re-x would be the most effective procedure, instead do mini A/B on liquidy goo followed by re-x.

To PREVENT emulsion: dont shake stir vigoriously instead swirl the container gently or turn end over end your container to mix the contents, create a whirlpool effect instead of hard shaking, add your saline (NaCL, salt (non iodized)) solution after acidification and before defat.

Dont take emulsions out, not during defat not during basification BREAK IT DOWN dont suck it out.

To BREAK emulsion: I already explained. Note: If you form emulsion during defat add saline solution if you form emulsion during pulling (extracting after basification) add NaOH solution.

As far as removing emulsion I'm actually thinking about getting up to the salt stage in a pyrex measuring jug first, which would allow easier access to solvent during defat and a gentler mixing process which I think (correct me if I'm wrong....PLEASE *hands out in prayer* ) would help in reducing the amount of emulsion created?

Yes gentle mixing of both phases instead of shaking hard is a good idea.

If you feel i didnt answer something feel free to ask.

Well, the mini A/B worked an absolute treat, even have more to get out of the backsalt mix. Surprisingly enough the crystals have come out very white, only thing I have to work on now is yield (as in the small jar, it was only 110mg from a 50g ACRB pull, didn't go the full 5-6 pulls as I just wanted to see if it worked - which it did). So my main concern is making sure I get everything out.

Thank you so much for this.

 

[Th Entity]

I am glad i was able to help, if you have any questions or doubts i would love to assist you! :thumb_up:

 

[Atmozic]

I am glad i was able to help, if you have any questions or doubts i would love to assist you! :thumb_up:

you were, very much so. The minute you said mini A/B it was a "well...THERE'S your problem!!" moment and I really cannot thank you enough.

Now I'm just paranoid about how to get what's crystallised and what's leftover

So much progress I don't want to screw it up right before the end. I was reading that cuticle tools are a great way to get it out so I'll be trying with that.