What form of mescaline is in the cactus naturally?

[TheUnbeliever]

I’ve been looking for an answer to this for a long time, I know that the acid used in extraction dictates the salt form of the mescaline, but what is the original form while it’s in the plant? The form that is extracted in tea? Is there a solvent that will pull it out of the water-cactus tea?

 

[Woolmer]

It is said to be in the form of mescaline malate, the salt of malic acid.

From the same thread:

M-malate is a clear white solid composed of needle-like crystals. It is not hydroscopic. It is very soluble in water, insoluble in ethanol and isopropyl alcohol.

Obtaining mescaline from the plant directly without changing its form may be interesting, though I believe it is not an easy task. What is important though even for purification after usual extraction is the selection of solvent(s) for re-x. Have you got any ideas for M-malate?

The procedure I developed doesn't use any organic solvents, not even limolene because there is no two phase separatory funnel step. It is relatively easy actually, just somewhat time consuming.

One day I plan to write a book similar in format to Dr. Shulgin's PIKAL revealing all, detailing my data and procedures and how I got there. Until then I'm keeping things under wraps, this is the first time I've even talked about it to anyone and I've already said more than I had intended.

 

[doubledog]

The form that is extracted in tea? Is there a solvent that will pull it out of the water-cactus tea?

Natural mescaline salt (probably malate) is very soluble in water, so it's highly unlikely that such solvent exist. You have to change it to freebase by adding some base to be able to pull it from water.

 

[metta-morpheus]

It is said to be in the form of mescaline malate, the salt of malic acid.

From the same thread:

M-malate is a clear white solid composed of needle-like crystals. It is not hydroscopic. It is very soluble in water, insoluble in ethanol and isopropyl alcohol.

If this is the case, why does the ethanol resin tek work?
I’ve read the same for psilo, that it’s insoluble in ethanol, but have read of ethanol extractions on mushrooms.

 

[doubledog]

Because ethanol or IPA is not used 100% pure, but mixed with some water.
Even 5% of water in ethanol change the solubility of mescaline, so 95% ethanol is suitable for cactus extraction.

I personally believe that natural form of mescaline is slightly soluble in 100% ethanol, but definitely a different solvent with better properties should be used.

 

[shroombee]

If this is the case, why does the ethanol resin tek work?

As doubledog noted, alcohol resin tek works because of the water content. However, many people have recognized that 70% IPA (for example) works much better than 99% IPA. All of the threads and teks that suggest using 99% IPA, 190 proof everclear, etc could be updated to state that this is a waste of money and less effective than using less pure alcohol.

But... why do we even use alcohol if it's the water that pulls the mescaline? Using alcohol as a solvent just pulls more junk that is soluble in alcohol but is not soluble in water.

 

[doubledog]

Actually, opposite is the truth.
Water pulls quite a lot of cactus pectin, alcohol does not pull pectin, and pulls mainly a green junk, which is not extracted by water.
The amount of pectin is much bigger than amount of this green material.

Reason for using alcohol (with some water) is mainly practical: water + cactus = gel.

There is some balance to be achieved:
not too much water to avoid the gel/snot and not too much ethanol to avoid lower solubility.

In my experience, 85-90% ethanol is the sweet spot.
To get rid of the junk soluble in alcohol just dissolve the product from alcohol step in water and evaporate it to quite potent resin.

 

[shroombee]

Water pulls quite a lot of cactus pectin, alcohol does not pull pectin, and pulls mainly a green junk, which is not extracted by water. The amount of pectin is much bigger than amount of this green material. Reason for using alcohol (with some water) is mainly practical: water + cactus = gel.

In my experience, 85-90% ethanol is the sweet spot.

Interesting... now I'm reading up on how to break down pectin. Would the sweet spot for IPA also be 85-90%?

 

[doubledog]

Most likely yes, even though IPA is less polar than ethanol, but difference is not huge.
I would say 10% - 15% water content should be fine.