What good is DMT to a plant?

[SKA]

Good point, Jees.
High contents of DMT are often found in rootbarks. But amazingly high DMT contents
have also been found in aerial plant parts like trunk/stem bark & leaves/phyllodes.

As far as I know DMT levels in flowers & seeds of most DMT-bearing plants are quite low, although
DMT has defenitely been found in those parts of plants. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So significantly high(0,5% and higher) DMT-levels seem to show up mostly in Barks, aerial and underground-bark.


So then we must think of the threats that are particulair to spice-bearing plant's barks.
Fungi/Molds? Woodpeckers? Giraffes? Ants? Grubs? Lice? All these organisms can degrade the integrity of the bark &
the wooden trunk/stem inside that the bark is protecting.

A simple experiment could involve exposing several of these organisms to DMT.
-What happens when Lice are introduced to DMT?
-What happens when wood-molds are exposed to DMT?
-" " Ants " " DMT?
-" " Grubs " " DMT?
etc...



This got me thinking. Lice are quite a common plant pest. I recall watching a nature documentary
once where they explained how plants make & excrete feremones/hormones at the moment they are being
eaten/attacked by Lice. This hormone would signal Ladybirds from far and near to come to the plant's
aid and munch up all the nasty Lice.

Could DMT have such a role perhaps?
Are DMT rich Acacias like A.Simplex, A.Podalyriifolia & A.Confusa
known to often be plagued by Lice or other bugs in their natural habitat?

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

recall watching a nature documentary
once where they explained how plants make & excrete feremones/hormones at the moment they are being
eaten/attacked by Lice. This hormone would signal Ladybirds from far and near to come to the plant's
aid and munch up all the nasty Lice.

acacias do that with ants

it mentions it controls them with "drugs" but it doesn't specify.

also they didn't cite their source for that part.... hmmmmmm..

 

[DeDao]

I have no idea, but this is certainly an interesting question.

 

[nen888]

Gramine in animal studies was only toxic at very high doses compared to what would be present in a theoretical extraction..also, Gramine has had use as a human health supplement..
but there are known non-Gramine strains (Big Medicine, AQ1 etc) so it shouldn't be an issue except for the field-researcher

its open phalaris season again.. there is no need to be afraid anymore.

The route of administration is important to point here. Eating it is one thing, smoking it is another...In analogy, we can eat a fair amount of cocaine as a lot of it is neutralised by first-pass metabolism but you can only inject that much before cardiac arrest or empty wallet hits you.

..fair point! an alternate example, though, would be nicotine..smoke some, you may feel sick but you live..eat the same amount you potentially die!..
back to possible evidence on p4 of the Phalaris=the Way of Future thread i wrote:

most of the animal study papers, but as far as i can ascertain from abstracts, the toxic effects, particularly serious ones, were the result of either huge doses (400-600mg/kg! repeat: per kg) , or long-term extended feeding [Goelz et al 1980] (but this could also have been due to it's MAOI activity [Ho et. al 1970;])..lower doses (e.g. 10-30mg/kg I.V.) were found to be 'psychotropic' but not otherwise harmful to sheep..

..so, i'm guessing that 10-30 mg gramine smoked isn't accutely toxic, but no i haven't tried this..maybe i will if i ever come across any..

ps. asking why DMT's in a plant may be like asking why there's silicon, or quartz, in a computer..

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

asking why DMT's in a plant may be like asking why there's silicon, or quartz, in a computer..

...it's a piezoelectric transducer??

 

[Aegle]

This thread brings to mind the quote by Carl Sagan "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."


Much Peace and Respect

 

[chocobeastie]

ps. asking why DMT's in a plant may be like asking why there's silicon, or quartz, in a computer..

This is what i think too. In fact, it is what the trees showed me. Interestingly, as you would know, Acacia stands in Australia often occur around granite and sites with heaps of quartz!

 

[The Neural]

ps. asking why DMT's in a plant may be like asking why there's silicon, or quartz, in a computer..

Saying these two questions are similar would suggest that we would be able to give an answer straight away. The comparison would be valid if computers were not man-made.

 

[nen888]

..it's also like the question: 'what good is DMT to the human brain?'..
but, sure Parshvik, it could be a 'transducer'..of sorts..

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

sure Parshvik, it could be a 'transducer'..of sorts..

... in what sense?

 

[The Neural]

..it's also like the question: 'what good is DMT to the human brain?'..
but, sure Parshvik, it could be a 'transducer'..of sorts..

Since one of DMT's metabolites is scatole, maybe it's useful in giving poo their lovely scent. There can be hundreds of theories on its functionality, but there is no leading edge research on it being conducted... the speculations are endless.

 

[chocobeastie]

I perceive DMT in the trees to facilitate information transfer, the molecule appears to assist the conducting of information.

For those of us who have really looked into the acacia species, this all becomes kind of obvious... it seems to me western science is not really advanced enough or open minded enough to understand these things at this time.

I guess if we put Asian or Russian scientists onto it, they would have a better chance of understanding what is happening.

 

[chocobeastie]

btw, the Neural, did you know an acacia phyllode looks just like your brain! :lol:

 

[Infundibulum]

I perceive DMT in the trees to facilitate information transfer, the molecule appears to assist the conducting of information.

For those of us who have really looked into the acacia species, this all becomes kind of obvious... it seems to me western science is not really advanced enough or open minded enough to understand these things at this time.

Every signaling molecule in living organisms facilitates information transfer one way or another. This is how cells communicate with each other in the context of an organism. Pretty much you cannot have a multicellular organism without some way of information transfer between cells. And we have identified truly many signaling molecules in organisms (think of hormones or neurotransmitters as examples here). Whether dmt really fits in this vast group of information transfer molecules just remains to be demonstrated.

Also, what these very western science concepts have to do with the open-mindedness of western science is purely your issue.

 

[The Neural]

it seems to me western science is not really advanced enough or open minded enough to understand these things at this time.

I guess if we put Asian or Russian scientists onto it, they would have a better chance of understanding what is happening.

Can you show evidence that ethnicity plays a role in how scientific principles are applied?
Or that they are more "open-minded"? Or how they are more "advanced"? By all means, you are truly welcome to demonstrate how they "understood" this!

btw, the Neural, did you know an acacia phyllode looks just like your brain!

Wait, my brain? Or a brain in general? And which part? I have seen many leaves show similar patterns of organisation as saggital slices of the cerebellum, iboga seeds and walnuts that resemble the outer cortical layers, and mushrooms that look like a penis. Is there any meaning to this, that is beyond a simple physical similarity?

 

[GoodApollo]

WOW. Really interesting thread. I think I will throw my hat in the ring, ill informed though the head that wears it.

To me, the presence of DMT in plants, animals and humans makes so much more sense if you accept that it is what Rick Strassman et al suggest it is, the spirit molecule.

I perceive it to be responsible for the flow information from the ethereal to the material. However the only way I can think of to prove this (admittedly shaky) hypothesis would be to receive some verifiable information from the other side via a subject tripping on DMT. This information would also have to be proven impossible for the subject to have known otherwise. Then you would have to somehow show that plants and animals are using DMT to a similar effect.

Whatever its purpose I think we can safely make at least one assumption, it has a purpose. Very seldom in nature do we see anything redundant. Colonies of insects and fish trapped in pitch dark caves evolve to have less and less developed eyes, the biological energy better spent on other assets more prominent to the creatures survival. By this logic DMT must have some value, indeed it would seem a great value to be so wide spread.

 

[Shamasi Wiz]

I'm sure many of you have already seen this, but it relates to some of the discussion(though I believe this is the ayahuasca plant and not a DMT-containing plant). I think it's pretty awesome.

 

[Shamasi Wiz]

Anyone speaks Phalarian, Acacian, or Mimosese?

I think the ones closest to achieving that are the South American shamans whose culture has been interacting with these things for thousands of years, so I'm more inclined to believe some of their explanations/myths regarding DMT. And after having the DMT experience, the "phone home to e.t.s" explanation actually makes a lot of sense(this guy goes into it a bit at about 6:00).

 

[jamie]

"To me, the presence of DMT in plants, animals and humans makes so much more sense if you accept that it is what Rick Strassman et al suggest it is, the spirit molecule."

What about 5meoDMT, 5hoDMT, pinoline, tetrahydroharmalan and harman? All of these occur in the human body and in so many plants and animals as well..are they spirit molecules also?

What about mescaline in the many cacti, psilocin, psilocybin and baeocystin in all the different mushroom species? Psychedelic lysergics in molds and nightshades and ibogaine and THC?...

 

[Infundibulum]

I agree with jamie's above point.

To me, the presence of DMT in plants, animals and humans makes so much more sense if you accept that it is what Rick Strassman et al suggest it is, the spirit molecule.

Isn't it similar to searching for the keys you lost around the lamp post (because this is where you see better) even though you might have actually lost them many up the road in the dark street? The fact that dmt evokes spiritual experiences in humans might very well have nothing to do with spirituality plants.

I perceive it to be responsible for the flow information from the ethereal to the material. However the only way I can think of to prove this (admittedly shaky) hypothesis would be to receive some verifiable information from the other side via a subject tripping on DMT. This information would also have to be proven impossible for the subject to have known otherwise. Then you would have to somehow show that plants and animals are using DMT to a similar effect.

So what happens to the organisms that do not have dmt:d ? the ethereal won't flow in to their material? Or that the rootbark of mimosa hostilis by virtue of its too much dmt just receives way too much of the ethereal?

Damn, now I see why there is less spirituality in the world. All the mimosa hostilis plants are trapping the ethereal like magnets and they do not let it flow into other organisms in sufficient quantities. We may have a holy mission to chop down all the mimosas to unblock the ethereal.

BTW, I was just thinking that since 5meo and bufo are constituents of the b.alvarius toad venom, then it truly must have something to do with defence and toxicity on other animals, unless of course you think that a frightened frog protects itself by administering psychedelic trips to its predators so the latter understand the wrong of their ways. It is not far fetched to assume that, given the toxicity of 5meo and bufo, dmt itself might have defence functions in other organisms.