What happens if you don't break through?

[GodEmperorOfDune]

I want to try DMT.

My question is, should I try to break through on my first go, or just go with a low dose, 15-20mg, and experience the low dose effects?

If I do try to break through and fail, what exactly happens? Do I hallucinate? Just sit there? Can't I just keep smoking more until I break through? How long should I wait after a failed attempt to try and break through again?

Thanks!

 

[Global]

In general it is typically advised to start with smaller doses. This should at least help you get accustomed with some of the "lesser" effects which are nevertheless quite impressive anyway.

If you try to break through and fail, it's anyone's guess what happens next. Assuming you didn't botch the process entirely, you will have an experience of some sort. Sub-breakthroughs can be very visionary. It's also important to realize that while some trips may start off in high gear, other times the experience may build, so what can start off seeming like a weak experience can end up being a mammoth. Smoking more is always an option, but it could well be the case that you may not break through for a while. I think it took me a couple months of regularly trying to get a full-fledged breakthrough, but it's not like all the experiences leading up to that were a waste of time. There were plenty of beautiful, meaningful, blissful, mind-bending experiences that paved the way to that first breakthrough. There were some complete duds too, sure. Don't get discouraged. Be open with your experimentation. Try to gauge for yourself what happens when trying to enter hyperspace again with different intervals of time. As a rule, you may find DMT to be pretty unpredictable. Often when you start to notice consistencies and trends and think that DMT is one way, you may be likely to have an experience that shows you it can do or be the complete opposite.

 

[Doc Buxin]

I really like what Global has to say here regarding this topic.

I enjoy non-breakthrough experiences with DMT as much as I do breakthrough journeys.

You'll definitely feel the effects even if you don't break through!

I think that for a psychedelic newbie the "start slow & low" approach is generally the best way to go.

That being said however, if you're more like me & you've had thousands of psychedelic experiences with Psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, Salvia divinorum & peyote & you've experienced what many refer to as "tripping balls" more than a few times & you're very comfortable with being in that state of consciousness, then breaking through on your first go can be a very rewarding experience.

That's what happened to me on my first-ever DMT journey a couple years ago & after the come-down in about 12 minutes, I gave out the heartiest laugh I could muster. It was simply mind-blowing, but since I had experienced other states similar to it, it didn't frighten me at all or make me feel uncomfortable in any way. In fact, it seemed very familiar even though it was in a sense very different from what I had experienced previously.

 

[DmnStr8]

I couldn't agree more with Doc Buxin and Global. Very well said in both responses.

:thumb_up:

 

[Bl1nd]

Didn't go looking for a breakthrough experience with the results from my first tek a couple of weeks ago and I had a very pleasant experience. Didn't want to put that expectation on myself. I can only guess that I was about 50% "there". Plus I feel I lot more relaxed next time now that my body knows what to do.

My wife experienced the same and exclaimed her sub breakthough experience was " one of the most beautiful experiences ever".

I think that like most things in life, if you chase something it often eludes you but if you turn you expectations down/put your attention to other things, what you're looking for comes and sits softly on your shoulder (Thoreau).

My advise (and I'm new to this as you), is just relax and enjoy the ride

 

[--Shadow]

Safety must ALWAYS come first, so it's generally advised to start low and work up in increments of 5mg

DMT vaping is such a different ball game to anything else, including LSD.

I actually find sub-breakthru's a much more unsettling ordeal... I don't know what the hell is going on, and I've had a couple of scary ones.

When you truly breakthru, you are usually so far gone, you give up on even thinking of struggling to understand what is happening in your moment of experience. You can't comprehend scary in the same way you do when normal. You just let go for the ride....

 

[Jees]

...If I do try to break through and fail, what exactly happens?...

For obvious reasons, lots of attention goes to the comprehensible part.

I truly believe it is a medicine too outside that, a treat of the body and soul, and that part does not need the breakthrough-aspect as a condition to do it's work for you. Bit of a medical-ish thing. Like a reset-button of sorts, independently of big show still effectively healthy.

A mindset suggestion: go spice for the healing, and if breakthrough comes take it along. Takes a lot of pressure off.

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing. They're missing the ball widely IMO due deadly narrow focusing.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

What happens if you don't break through?

Oh, you'll know.. you'll know immediately when one 'breaks through'..

 

[Doc Buxin]

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing.

Really?:?

I mean...Seriously?:?:

They're missing the ball widely IMO due deadly narrow focusing.

In my not-so-humble opinion I agree with you on that one!:thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing.

Really?:?
I mean...Seriously?:?: ...

In the circles I know of where there is a lot of attention to ceremonial structured conduct, I've noticed several times, an underestimating conviction toward spice-only. Got me a bit tired trying to explain the benefits over again. Also, in ayahuasca circles the visual part is often even considered a distraction of the alleged "real work", and connecting spice-to-visual, the pre condition arises.

 

[TGO]

Breakthrough...sub-breakthrough...They are both beautiful in their own right! As others have said, you will know when you breakthrough. However, if you are like me I seem to get mild pre-hyperspace anxiety.

Well, anxiety is too strong of a word. More like it is excitement and anticipation along with some nerves. So to counteract this feeling I take a few deep breaths and RELAX and I remind myself that whatever happens is going to happen, breakthrough or not.

During sub breakthroughs I find myself swaying back and forth physically as if I am dancing with all the fractals and complex imagery. Let the energy flow through you, it is an amazing feeling!

On breakthrough doses however, I find it is nice to be somewhere comfortable (for me, that is my bed. I have a large table right next to it which acts as a desk/surface to set smoalking devices on/ etc.) and I set a couple pillows behind me and get wrapped up in my blanket. Than I go for the blast off!

It is called a blast off for a reason so it is nice to be able to close your eyes and lay back in bed covered up (my feet get cold when on DMT...weird) and be totally and physically comfortable while travelling to far away places! Discomfort during a trip can potentially color it in a negative way and/or distract you from the beauty surrounding you!

Best of luck!

 

[null24]

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing.

Really?:?

I mean...Seriously?

Oh, most definitely. I just listened to a guy go on for over an hour about his Aya healing, how DMT is only a drug, blablabla. Then again, the guy really didn't know much at all about the medicine he had taken, and considered himself expert on psychedelics because he went to burning man once. :?

 

[○]

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing.

Really?:?

I mean...Seriously?:?:

They're missing the ball widely IMO due deadly narrow focusing.

In my not-so-humble opinion I agree with you on that one!:thumb_up:

This is somewhat funny to me tbh. People that pride themselves on having worked with ayahuasca, yet look down upon different preparations, when in reality, they're taking you to the same place, more or less, and 'can' provide similar, if not the same type of healing. It's funny how some can have these life changing experiences, and while it can expand them in many directions, a cotangent effect can happen, to where they become locked on a specific set of ideals and shrug off the rest. A very dangerous road to walk.

Anyway, not to derail.

'What happens if you don't break through?'...... Then you don't break through. Wouldn't get too hung up on this concept though. There is no end to the depth, no 'final' place of achievement. Just don't get discouraged, stay steadfast and ye shall receive.

Also, if you don't break through ...kikker will eat your soul. :twisted: 8)

 

[Global]

...If I do try to break through and fail, what exactly happens?...

For obvious reasons, lots of attention goes to the comprehensible part.

I truly believe it is a medicine too outside that, a treat of the body and soul, and that part does not need the breakthrough-aspect as a condition to do it's work for you. Bit of a medical-ish thing. Like a reset-button of sorts, independently of big show still effectively healthy.

A mindset suggestion: go spice for the healing, and if breakthrough comes take it along. Takes a lot of pressure off.

There are aya hardcores downtalking on spice that it's all about show and not about healing. They're missing the ball widely IMO due deadly narrow focusing.

Don't get me wrong. I've had the reset effect as well on a number of occasions. I've also experienced the opposite, and I find it funny that people blanket-label it as a healer. I feel that if it has access to the domain of healing, then it can enact the opposite as well.

 

[travsha]

I may be one of those snobby "Aya-guys" to tell you the truth.... I would never say DMT doesnt have healing potential though. It certainly does. I have way more experience with DMT then with Ayahuasca actually, but I dont experience them taking you to the same place. They seem worlds different to me.... Both can be useful in their own way.

And while I see the healing power in DMT, I have never heard for example of anyone curing cancer with DMT.... But I know friends who had cancer and were healed with Ayahuasca. I have a friend who cured his epilepsy with Ayahuasca (no symptoms in 4 years now!). I know personally I went way deeper in a few Ayahuasca ceremonies then I did with 100's of DMT ceremonies, but I also dont think I would have found my way to Ayahuasca and the path I am on now without DMT. DMT opened some doors and possibilities for me which I will always be grateful for. I dont think they really take you to the same place though - at least not for me personally. I do know that other people might experience this very differently though - everyone is different, so for others, maybe it does take them to a similar place..... And maybe the skill of DMT practitioners will grow to the point that it is helping other cure cancer and such things at some time - you never know what the future holds! (heck maybe it is happening now and I just havent heard of it yet - that would be cool!)

Wow, kinda scary to say that on a DMT focused forum! lol :twisted: (hopefully I have been respectful enough with my words to just convey my different perspective though!)

Besides - there should be enough room in the world for smoking DMT and for Ayahuasca :d (different people need different medicines right?)

As far as breaking through.... You can always try again later, and sometimes the lessons you learn are just as deep even if the visual aspect isnt what you were aiming for. A few of my favorite DMT sessions were with lighter doses that didnt take me all the way through, but maybe connected me in different ways to where I was in the moment....

 

[3rdI]

drug snobs, you gotta love em, "my drugs better than yours, infact it so much better its not even a drug, its medicine", nutters:lol:

is it just me or are these people missing the ball, its all about smoalking DMT while on Aya, thats the ticket:shock: :surprised

(not aimed at you, travsha)

 

[Jees]

...and I find it funny that people blanket-label it as a healer. I feel that if it has access to the domain of healing, then it can enact the opposite as well....

Fair enough, better to call it a potential healer, for the non breakthrough experience I call out on that potential.
And you're right about potentials can enact the opposite. As do: well meant pharmacy pills, marriages and hikes in the woods. Life and it's risks...

It's undeniable that aya has more hardware amazon plant components, which if so could benefit for a certain personal issue at hand. Aya-Cult wise, a non psychedelic aya session is standard considered (yep blanket labeled) "healing".
Aya cult and their studies are solely(?) healing oriented. Great but it pushes things far in boxes and niches.

For me and so far, all non breakthrough dmt-sessions have been nothing short of "healing", and pharmahuasca has given me more than ayahuasca, but honestly this says more about me than about else. Will continue both open minded.

PS: at the aya forum there's a thread Smoked dmt versus ayahuasca, yawnful, too many pages, jamie (fractal) trying to save the day, ...

 

[travsha]

(not aimed at you, travsha)

Thanks!

Many drugs luckily are medicines.... Some were even made with that intention in mind... Food is often medicine too. Almost anything can be medicine - I had a mushroom experience kinda recently where they asked me to hike up a mountain without my glasses on, and I am pretty blind - but in this case my poor eye-sight became a medicine that taught me a lot about my childhood!

Don't get me wrong. I've had the reset effect as well on a number of occasions. I've also experienced the opposite, and I find it funny that people blanket-label it as a healer. I feel that if it has access to the domain of healing, then it can enact the opposite as well.

Many drugs can both heal and harm. Many people can both heal and harm. I love cannabis for example - one of the most medicinal plants around, but also very easy to abuse and let dominate you. Ayahuasca can obviously be abused as well - one time I thought a negative thought about someone during a ceremony and she asked if I wanted to learn how to curse others, I said "HELL NO!" Kinda scared the shit out of me that she would offer things like that (especially because that was one of my first ceremonies).

 

[GodEmperorOfDune]

This is all amazing stuff you guys.

If I don't break through, what kinds of effects can I expect?
Can I just take another toke?
How long should I wait between attempts?

 

[DoingKermit]

This is all amazing stuff you guys.

If I don't break through, what kinds of effects can I expect?
Can I just take another toke?
How long should I wait between attempts?

Hi GodEmperorOfDune!

I find sub-breakthrough doses extremely visual and can be extremely enjoyable. However, when I breakthrough it feels like I become the visuals rather than observing them. Sub-breakthroughs can sometimes be a bit confusing if I'm just on the cusp of entering hyperspace, but are also mind blowingly beautiful in their own right.

Try not to think too much about it and just go with your gut. Take a small toke (maybe start with 15mg in your pipe), get a feel for it and if you feel like you want to kick it up a notch, take another toke. You basically gradually build up the experience until you feel like are your where you want to be.

I wouldn't worry too much about time between tokes. I don't ever really notice tolerance build-up, but that could just be me.

Good luck and happy travels