What I think are The Most Important Entheogens for me

[Tony6Strings]

Dmt is my favorite vaporised tryptamine psychedelic. Trichocereous cactus is my favorite oral roa plant psychedelic. LSD is my favorite (semi)synthetic psychedelic. Cannabis oil is my daily driver, thank god for cannabis.

 

[OneIsEros]

Dmt is my favorite vaporised tryptamine psychedelic. Trichocereous cactus is my favorite oral roa plant psychedelic. LSD is my favorite (semi)synthetic psychedelic. Cannabis oil is my daily driver, thank god for cannabis.

But what is your favourite entheogen?

Something I think all psychedelic users should ask themselves, too, is whether they have ever had entheogenic experiences at all on psychedelics. I had my first entheogenic experience on LSD 7 years ago. For the six years prior to that, I had had some pretty cool experiences - including LSD telepathy (this is not a debate on whether it exists, we spoke in each other’s minds, it felt like thinking but just thinking inside another head, I REALLY DO NOT WANT YET ANOTHER “IS IT REAL” DEBATE ON HERE)...........

But these sorts of experiences weren’t entheogenc. This leads to an interesting question of course: what is the entheogenic or the mystical?

For me, when talking about entheogenesis in terms of psychedelic drug use - it is a very, very specific sort of state. It always involves healing - if I have a physical problem (I have chronic physical ailments), it gets fixed - with near miraculous efficiency. I hadn’t been able to turn my head to the right for three years, and on the night of that first LSD entheogen experience, I crunched it into place - people heard it across the room. The deeper less tangible forms of healing come through as well (finding love, etc.).

On LSD, this almost always presents itself as “I am God and so are the rest of you” with a simultaneous deep sense that God trasncends all of us at the same time.

On ayahuasca, it doesn’t get pushed in that doctrinal direction so much, but is very recognizably the same sort of state, just without all the funny thoughts to accompany it that LSD brings me. Same healings and same love though. For years it was just “take some drugs and hope for the best”, but I learned to induce the state reliably through meditating on ayahuasca (and meditating for 2 hours every day while sober as well).

Entheogen means “generating God within”. For the many Buddhists out there who have a vocabulary of spiritual experience that does not reference God, I’ll widen that definition to generating the mystical. So I want you to ask yourself: has this practice ever profoundly healed me in a way that seemed... mystical?

My suspicion is that most people haven’t experienced this, even if they think they have. I certainly thought I’d had some “mystical” trips up until I had one. I will note: if it wasn’t healing, I don’t personally deem it “mystical”, although healing in itself certainly does not mean something was mystical. Supernatural or visionary is not the definition of mystical for me personally.

 

[jamie]

It is hard for me to pick between psilocybin mushrooms, mescaline cactus and LSD. I have drunk aya many times and love it. I love a handful of these things, but I think my take on it is not the most common.

I can say that personally I find psilocybin significantly more entheogenic than DMT. DMT can be extremely visual etc but I feel it to be somewhat hollow and empty, almost a bit shallow compared to psilocybin. There just seems to be more connection to my own divinity in the psilocybin experience. I would rather drink rue and mushrooms vs jungle ayahuasca.

If I am going to pick the one that helps me the most, that I combine with all other psychedelics, helps me feel the most connected to myself and use all day long...I will choose cannabis.

I agree with Steve Beyer here, finding DMT/aya most visual, cacti most empathic and mushrooms most entheogenic...although I also find psilo more visionary than DMT, where DMT is more prone to fractal visuals for myself...mushrooms are more organic and alive in the visions.

5-MeO-DMT I really enjoyed, but I had similar more thorough connections with LSD personally, probly due to length of effect. I find LSD the closest to that style of ego dissolution(5-MeO-DMT).

One reservation I have about classifying DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as most entheogenic, or most healing etc...is that I find there is a large percentage of rather delusional people moving around both in the ayahuasca world, and the psychedelic conference world alike...and these people seem to drink a lot of the stuff. There is a LOT of ego involved with people assuming all sorts of strange roles backed up by claims that are seemlingly total nonsense. I have seen this same issue discussed years ago on the ayahuasca forums...if ayahuasca is so ego dissolving and entheogenic, than why is that largely not being represented by the majority of people using it in these subcultures?

The type of entheogenesis and ego dealth referred to in eastern literature seems to have been produced reliably back in the 60's with the appropriate dose of LSD. Acid feels absolutley perfect for facilitation of this type of experience.

 

[dithyramb]

There is no such thing as supernatural, IMO, if something exists it is natural whether it fits into our official paradigm or not.

As for Entheogen... On the one hand, I believe there is no substance that can lead us to God without our proper intention and approach. But if we assume this effect to be solely of the substance, I think I agree with Stephan Beyer that cacti and mushrooms are more Entheogens than Ayahuasca is. He calls Ayahuasca a hallucinogen rather than an Entheogen, and emphasizes this difference. That melting into unity, that "wow everything is one!" state is more of the focus of cacti and mushrooms. With ayahuasca, that knowledge is a given foundation for deep, personal healing work.

Miraculous healings on medicines are awesome

 

[Jagube]

I come from a very rational background and used to be an atheist. I found God during my first rue + MHRB experience that worked; I realized "all is One" and the God I found was that One in all, including myself. I wasn't familiar with the concept, hadn't read any religious or spiritual scripts, I discovered it independently. And unintentionally. My intention wasn't spiritual (I wouldn't have used that word anyway), but curiosity, expansion and healing.

So I guess that counts as an entheogenic experience and I haven't had another experience like that; the realization stayed with me, so I couldn't have had the same realization again. I wouldn't say I haven't had any more entheogenic experiences, but I guess it's all too easy to fall for the trap of arguing about semantics and lose what matters along the way.

Of course realizing something is not the same as integrating it. But it was a paradigm shift.

I switched from rue to ayahuasca, which felt less harsh and it has been my #1 entheogen.

I haven't had a profound experience with mushrooms yet.
But I've had a few 1P-LSD sessions and I can see what Jamie means about its ego-dissolving power.
Perhaps its affinity for 5-HT1a has something to do with it?

 

[OneIsEros]

I use terms like supernatural, miraculous, and mystical/spiritual as placeholders for certain categories of experience. Noted though.

 

[dithyramb]

Right on, OneIsEros.

Fractal, "DMT can be extremely visual etc but I feel it to be somewhat hollow and empty, almost a bit shallow compared to psilocybin. " I can relate to that. I was astonished by the feeling of fullness and richness in the experience of liberty caps when I was first getting acquainted with them. DMT appears to be more empty, more like a tool in comparison. I am not talking about psychedelic effects, but rather connection to Spirit, and spiritual experiences. No wonder the DMT plant is called a helper providing "light" to the main plant caapi in traditional ayahuasca. Caapi is the element which delivers substance in ayahuasca. As is rue for me.

Jagube, you know I have access to a strain of rue that is not harsh and is very loving. Harvesting it from the same land each year, it is my number one medicine. It has so many parallels to the caapi vine. It is also an embassador of plants, a doorway to the plant world.

About having spiritual experiences without having the intention for it to begin with - this happens for sure. Not just with psychedelics. There just has to be some right ingredients, some matured spark in you and certain right conditions. What I tried to say is that this is not an automatic mechanical/chemical phenomenon. There are people knowingly or unknowingly abusing the most powerful/sacred Entheogens and never waking up to the Sacred. Enlightenment does not work by popping a pill.

And about people with huge egos and/or delusions in the ayahuasca world... I don't believe it's related so much to ayahuasca, but more to the human condition. Egomania arising out of spiritual practice that is meant to tame the ego can be seen in all spiritual paths, especially in today's world, as far as I can see.

 

[dragonrider]

I don't know what would make an entheogen important. What i can tell is what entheogen experience is the most fun one to have for me, and that would be LSD combined with edibles.

 

[dithyramb]

Thanks for the link about 5HT1A agonism and James Oroc's DMT + 5 MeO DMT experience, Jagube. If his hypothesis about this combination holds, this would make Phragmites and certain Phalaris really precious

 

[Jagube]

Fractal, "DMT can be extremely visual etc but I feel it to be somewhat hollow and empty, almost a bit shallow compared to psilocybin. " I can relate to that. I was astonished by the feeling of fullness and richness in the experience of liberty caps when I was first getting acquainted with them. DMT appears to be more empty, more like a tool in comparison.

I don't have experience with DMT on its own. Even on the few occasions I have vaped pure DMT, it has been on top of ayahuasca or some other form of harmala preparation.
And when it comes to the caapi (or harmala) / DMT combination, I find it profound and adding more DMT while keeping the vine dose the same adds profundity and meaning (connection to Spirit) to the experience. So I can't really say the profundity is in the vine and the DMT just adds color to a profundity that's already there. IME the profundity / connection to Spirit comes from the synergy of the two.

I've recently started growing my own mushrooms, and as I said, I haven't had nearly as meaningful an experience with those. Perhaps it's a dosage thing. There are more on their way, so anything can happen

As for egos and delusions, I think those may be easier to see in the ayahuasca world, because it's more organized - there are many groups, spiritual / religious communities etc., which is not as much the case with other entheogens.

BTW in Mapia, a Santo Daime community, some prominent leaders (Pad. Alfredo and Mad. Rita) led special works with mushrooms and there are even traces of that in the hinarios, e.g. Cogo-Rei refers to the mushroom in this one:

To love and have love
With respect to higher things
To ground oneself in everything that is
The King-Mushroom showed all this to me

Here I go
Telling everything he showed me
Giving proof of my knowledge
With the Master King-Mushroom here I am

However, FWIU and FWIW, they didn't hold those works frequently.

 

[dithyramb]

You are right it's not black and white, DMT certainly is not empty

About mushrooms, well you also know I am a spirit guy and don't believe it's the sheer molecules that deliver the spiritual experience. Local liberty caps growing on the mountains feels a world more entheogenic than cultivated cubensis to me. I must note all my liberty caps experiences have been in combination with rue, and I have one cubensis in combination with rue experience to compare it with. I am experienced enough to know which effect/energy comes.from which plant/mushroom, I know my rue very well. The cubensis rue experience was very strong and wild (the good: very primordial. The weakness: not so much related to human life) (I have a few cubensis by itself experiences too), the semilanceata rue combination is just more heart opening, meaningful, and so full of Spirit.

Which species are you cultivating?

I've heard of the use of mushrooms in Santo Daime

 

[OneIsEros]

There is no such thing as supernatural, IMO, if something exists it is natural whether it fits into our official paradigm or not.

As for Entheogen... On the one hand, I believe there is no substance that can lead us to God without our proper intention and approach. But if we assume this effect to be solely of the substance, I think I agree with Stephan Beyer that cacti and mushrooms are more Entheogens than Ayahuasca is. He calls Ayahuasca a hallucinogen rather than an Entheogen, and emphasizes this difference. That melting into unity, that "wow everything is one!" state is more of the focus of cacti and mushrooms. With ayahuasca, that knowledge is a given foundation for deep, personal healing work.

Miraculous healings on medicines are awesome

I would suggest that this actually has more to do with the cognitive.... suggestions, that these other substances provide. The sobriety I am emphasizing is at the root of this accurate insight, I believe.

As I have noted, the most intense entheogenic experiences I have had have been with LSD. LSD made me think in ways that the sobriety of ayahuasca and 5-MeO-DMT would not. But I would actually, paradoxically, point to this as something that would make DMT and 5-MeO-DMT more intrinsically entheogenic.

 

[Jagube]

The cubensis rue experience was very strong and wild (the good: very primordial. The weakness: not so much related to human life) (I have a few cubensis by itself experiences too), the semilanceata rue combination is just more heart opening, meaningful, and so full of Spirit.

Which species are you cultivating?

Psilocbe cubensis, azurescens and cyanescens, the latter two for outdoors, and I've only fruited cubensis so far.

I've heard many people don't like cubensis, but then there are some who prefer it.
I've had good experiences with other mushrooms, not sure what species they were though - one was called 'Mexican' (in Amsterdam), the other in a mushroom ceremony in Huautla.
I have yet to try semilanceata, but I feel that in the same way you have a relationship with local, wild-growing plants and fungi which makes them special to you, for me cultivating my own entheogens is special. Unfortunately semilanceata are not easy to grow at home.

 

[dithyramb]

Cultivating is special for sure. I have experienced it with Phalaris brachystachys which I couldn't find enough for long term in the wild. It's like getting married and moving in to the same house and taking full responsibility of the plant. It just has to be the right plant/mushroom

There is information available on semilanceata vs cubensis when you search. The difference is profound for me. It probably is possible to cultivate it, just needs more research and experimentation to settle the technique. But it is found in such abundance in the wild that little people would feel the incentive to cultivate it. I read somewhere that Stamets' favorite mushroom was semilanceata

Some people also hold Copelandia cyanescens in higher regard than other mushrooms (a one that is cultivated). I don't have experience with it and it is described as very high quality psychedelic effects with no mention of Spirit. Southeast Asian medicine with good psychedelic effects, reminds me of A. confusa.

I haven't come across much qualitative comments on the experience of azurescens or cyanescens.

I've read a few times that Mexican curanderos don't prefer cubensis for their works. I really think cubensis should not be the representative of psilocybin mushrooms, and the whole "mindfuck, body load, clarity" etc discussion would be very different considering other, better species.

Psilocybe mexicana is held in very high esteem. Highly visionary, clean, clear, deeply meaningful and spiritual... I am feeling something really special about this one. If you have the means and the willingness to cultivate it, I would be very interested to hear your account of the P. mexicana experience.

Good luck and keep us informed with your discoveres

P.S. I think it is highly likely that your "Mexican" mushroom experience in Amsterdam was with P. mexicana. The Huautla ceremony might have been with mexicana also.

 

[monomind]

I believe that entheogens are first and foremost about context and motives. The very same substance can be used for deep meaningful spiritual work... or for something completely different such as relieving boredom or self titillation. No judgment implies here and for each their own...

Psilocybin mushrooms
For me the most mystical entheogen is the psilocybin mushrooms. They also have a great healing power. Actually, thinking about it now I reach the conclusion that the mystical and healing aspects go hand in hand.

It is no coincidence that psylocibin is used for helping terminally ill people to deal with the fact of imminent death and the end of their physical life. The mushroom experience brings forth a dissolution of fear and a deep realization that this current moment of nowness is all there ever is ( what in Buddhist terms is referred to as 'timeless awareness' ). This creates peace, acceptance and profound healing.

However, I do question the possibility of integrating mystical experiences, beyond their immediate healing power. I found that my own too human brain lacks the translation machinery to take these cosmic experiences and bridge them into my daily life in a profound enough manner.
I am still to investigate this aspect further when my circumstances will allow it.

LSD
I find LSD to posses a great emotional healing power, in a somewhat similar fashion to shrooms. However it is not a teacher substance and does not have a distinct spirit/personality.
This 'lack of distinct personality' is actually what makes it unique and open ended for me. It does not shove anything in your face and it does leave it up to the user to give it a desired direction.

DMT and harmalas
DMT on its own makes no sense to me whatsoever. I really tried but it just don't . I could never bring myself to vape more than 10mg before putting it away with revulsion. It feels to me like pouring pure psychedelic petroleum into my brain.
It's so fast and overwhelming that I end up concentrating on my breathing and wait for it to be over.

Combining dmt with extracted harmalas or other forms of rue/caapi in changa is a completely different story. I now have on my hands one of the most amazing shamanic, healing & spiritual, entheogens to work with.

The options are numerous. Different ratios of dmt:harmalas and different plant material will produce significantly different experiences:
Healing dominant, female spirit dominant, male spirit dominant, or gender-less. Alice in wonderland universes, future-techno worlds or the beating drums of the shaman's circle.
For me this is a vehicle for deep exploration into my own mind. A tool to face my most primordial fears and psychological biases.

For example I found out that what attracts me the most in it is the female presence and healing kind of experience, and it came as quite a shock to me as I was used to think about myself in very male oriented fashion... of being strong, self-sustaining, independent etc.
Quite a revelation it was which I am still in the process of coming to terms with.

And few words about Cannabis:
From my experience it can be used as a mild entheogen. However, for me it is very quick in habit forming, and this cancels out its possible use as an entheogen.
I do use it quite regularly ( few times a week ) as a sleeping aid mostly.

 

[OneIsEros]

I've mentioned it before in this thread, I agree that entheogenesis and healing go hand in hand. Nick Sand agreed as well. In my personal view, if entheogenesis does not involve healing on some level, it was not entheogenesis.

I'm skeptical of the claim about LSD not being a "teacher spirit". My own view is that all entheogens just so far as they are entheogens are "teacher spirits" with their own distinct personalities. LSD has been a far deeper entheogen for me than psilocybin. I've only ever experienced entheogenesis with psilocybin spontaneously once. I can experience it any time when I meditate on it, but I experience entheogenesis when I meditate on any psychedelic. Psilocybin is much less likely to push me in the direction of the "mystical" than LSD is. People respond to different teachers differently.

I would also strongly disagree about the psilocybin-palliative care thing not being a coincidence. There are some straight forward reasons for that: First, researchers believe research trials won't get rejected by authorities like LSD will due to its reputation, and it won't cause nausea like every single other natural psychedelic, and dosing is more straight forward (unlike ayahuasca/pharmahuasca where you have to factor in harmala doses).

I have respect for mushrooms, because while they have never worked for me like LSD has, I know that they work for others in ways that LSD doesn't... but I do have to say, mushrooms certainly receive quite a lot of praise just because they are natural. LSD is every bit as mystical, in my opinion. It's just a question of what you'll respond to.

 

[jamie]

I find Nick Sand...shifty. I always liked him, until I learned more and have been left with the impression that his motives were at least partically profit motivated. Him and Owsley both did questionable thing IMO. I feel a bit like both him and Owsley used Tim Scully. Scully was the true genius.

I tend to side with Ott's use of the term.

"An entheogen is a psychoactive substance that induces alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, or behavior[1] for the purposes of engendering spiritual development in sacred contexts."

Entheogen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UgraKarma]

Ibogaine so many of the reports are heroin users getting off their addiction, it’s kind of hard to get a sense of what its value is in itself entheogenically from reading reports.... getting off heroin is always gonna be a harrowing to the core of your spirit experience, lol.
?

I place ibogaine as the top entheogen with or without its narcotic detox characteristic. It is just so mysterious, and there is simply nothing in the toolkit that can compare to a flood. It's the only entheogen that I've worked with that can give you full control over realer-than-real dreamscapes (as opposed to hallucinations, patterning, tunnels...full HD vision in 360 degrees, waking dreamscapes.)

I don't think I ever need to experience a flood again; it's been over 5 years now, but still resonates.

 

[OneIsEros]

Wow, that sounds amazing. I'll have to give it a go some day. Since I started this thread I've tried 5-MeO-DMT. The only major serotonergic psychedelics left in the natural world that I haven't tried now are 5-HO-DMT and ibogaine.

 

[Grey Fox]

The psychedelics that I am most familar with are LSD, Cubensis mushrooms, and Trichocereus cacti. Thats the order in which I encountered them during the course of my life. I havent tried DMT.

I found LSD to be very stimulating and visual. It was a rush of creative new ideas and exciting visual changes. It was the start of my journey with psychedelics. I was young and didnt know how to treat the substance with respect or thoughfulness. So that probably colored my impression of those LSD experiences. But I did not find it to be very entheogenic at all. It opened me up to a whole new range of possibilities and ideas. But it left me feeling worn out and confused about what to do with all those new insights. I felt that it offered no guidance or direction. It was just a whirlwind of novelty. It left me with many more questions than answers.

It was over a decade later that Cubensis mushrooms became important in my life. The mushroom experience felt much deeper and more spiritual than LSD. The visuals were not as profound as with LSD, but it felt like I was learning a lot more from the trips. Mushrooms made me feel connected to nature in a way that I had never felt before. I remember sitting under a tree in a canyon in the desert. The buzz of the insects and the chatter of the birds would build in these huge waves that I had never been aware of before. I could feel the energy of life all around me. That was something that was completely new to me. But mushrooms would also create a fogginess in my head that could sometimes turn into bad emotional feelings and a haze that was hard to think through. Overall, it felt like mushrooms were spiritual and powerful and heart opening. But I would mostly describe their impact on me as helpful in a desconstructive way. Mushrooms showed me false patterns of thought. They showed me how disconnected my life was from the natural world. But they didnt really show me the path forward. Mushrooms opened my awareness, but there was a fogginess that prevented me from understanding what to do about it.

Trichocereus cacti were the last of these 3 psychedelics to enter my life. And I have found cactus to be the most entheogenic and profound of the 3. Cactus has a clarity to the trip that was missing from LSD and mushrooms. With cactus, even at times when the visuals are strong and I am plunged deep into a psychedelic state of mind, there is a sense that my consciousness is sharper and clearer than ever. There is a nootropic-like effect from the cactus that I have not experienced with anything else. And that effect often lingers for days or weeks after a cactus trip. Because of this, cactus has been the most edifying psychedelic for me. Because during the trip, and also afterward during the integration phase, my mind feels very sharp and able to process what is being revealed and opened up by the medicine. Cactus has helped me to work through emotional challenges like nothing else. It has led to concrete changes in my life like no other psychedelic. Specifically, I have seen big changes in terms of how I treat other people and in terms of how much compassion I am able to show to myself. In addition there have been other important changes to my lifestyle that were initiated by insights from cactus trips. Cactus gives a sense of a guiding force that continues to have impact long after the trip ends. It has given a sense of spiritual purpose to mundane aspects of life that lacked that nuance before. Cactus has been the most superior psychedelic for me.