What is a breakthrough anyway? (i just smoked 3 times)

[Kitisha]

I just partook in dmt 3 times, not even an hour ago. My thoughts will probably be a bit scrambled, since im trying to get this all out before i forget. English is my second language, so i hope it will be readable. I am a new member and i shared my experiences with dmt so far in my essay, here: Please allow me to introduce myself (and my first spice experiences) - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Firstly i would like to take a moment to say: what the hell is this drug? How can such an alien experience be a part of us?

How would you describe a breakthrough? I thought i would know it when i see it, but now im not sure if i experienced it or not. Take a look at my experiences and tell me if that sounds like a breakthrough, especially the 2. one. I cant make sense of what i just experienced. All these experiences were achieved by layering dmt between some mexican taragon in a little bong.

1. Suspended hexagon
I took the hits and was taken to this dark void. There was a big floating hexagonal structure above me and there were i guess rooms in it. There were some creatures and i think one pair was arguing. Then something connected from above into one of the rooms, and some words were being exchanged. I cant recall much more, and when i type it out like this it seems like a lie. Like it isnt describing the experience at all. I saw all this from a distance, with a black void all around.

2. Happy dancing room
I smoked a little bit more than before. Patterns started flowing before me and i found myself in this flowing room. There were creatures, but they also a part of the flowing walls. They acknowledged me and nodded to me. Something in me nodded back to them. this was like an exchange of "i see you". The creatures were engaged in this dance, which was their only purpose i think. They danced the dance of existence (sounds super dumb when i type it like that...). They would like blink between the dance poses, instantly transform. The whole room had these very bright colored stripes and pillars, which were wider near the floor and ceiling.

3. The healing 3-headed pillar
I smoked yet a bit more than before. I found myself laying down with this i guess entity above me. It was this big geometric pillar, but at the top were i think 3 bodies from a torso up, wearing these cowboy hats. They were examining me and doing something to me. I felt this healing vibe during the experience. Then happened something i find crazy. I once again felt the ball in my throat (see my essay, link above). Before, i felt it immediately after exhaling, but now it happened later into the trip. It felt like they made me feel it. I still feel it now, and im beginning to worry if something isnt going on in my throat. I cant seem to cough it out.


Now, is this breaking through? The 2. trip was the most vivid, but otherwise the experiences werent very immersive if you know what i mean. It felt like i was only half-seeing it, from behind a veil. Do you know what i mean? At all times i still felt my body and was in it.

Thoughts? Thank you for reading guys

 

[stoneybalogna]

Firstly i would like to take a moment to say: what the hell is this drug? How can such an alien experience be a part of us?

It's funny you say that, as I wondered the same thing on one of my trips. It's bizarre, powerful, and there's something about it, that to me, feels almost like we shouldn't be there. Or like, we're on a tour somewhere, and we've got to stay in the "safety lines/path". Hard to put into words, that's not quite what I mean, but hopefully someone gets that lol.

And as far as breakthroughs, I have yet to have one myself, and it's been years since my last DMT trip. The biggest thing I hear is that "you'll know", "if you've got to ask, you didn't breakthrough". But honestly, I think that word is limiting. Or sets some kind of expectation for your trip. And I almost wonder if that in itself keeps one from breaking through. Similar to ego death. I'd heard that to experience ego death on LSD, you can't go in to the trip wanting it or expecting it, as that is part of the ego too. I'm off topic, but from what I gather, a breakthrough is not at all similar to lower doses. There's some point you reach where it flips over to the "breakthrough experience". Someone with more experience should have an easier time explaining that, but that's my take on it.

And the marble you mention, is it similar to what's in the hyperspace lexicon?

This is a symptom one can have while visiting Hyperspace. Feeling as though you don't need to breathe. Also described as the feeling of a rolling ball trapped in the back of ones throat

And was it similar to what you described in your intro post? Any nausea involved? I'm curious as to what is the cause of this. Saw another post on here asking about the throat marble, and someone had asked if OP had difficulty speaking their mind at all, or if there was something they were doing to irritate their throat(smoking, working around chemicals, etc). Even saw someone say it could be caused by improper smoking method.

But interesting read! I'm wondering if the "marble" you're feeling could in some way be related to healing? In this post you mentioned feeling a "healing vibe" during the third trip before feeling the marble, and in your intro, you'd puked "and immediately felt better". Total spitball here, so feel free to tell me I'm a dummy lol. Much love.

 

[PsilOutsider]

The biggest thing I hear is that "you'll know", "if you've got to ask, you didn't breakthrough". But honestly, I think that word is limiting. Or sets some kind of expectation for your trip. And I almost wonder if that in itself keeps one from breaking through.

I totally agree with this, there are times when you feel, and then you think "shit, I've gone too far"
Anyway, I do not think there is a fixed point, it is to leave the comfort zone, many points that were a crisis for me are now a level in which I move comfortably.

Similar to ego death. I'd heard that to experience ego death on LSD, you can't go in to the trip wanting it or expecting it, as that is part of the ego too.

And this, directly is something that I can affirm, in my presentation I told about my first LSD trip ( Hello, another psychonaut here! - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus ) where I experienced ego death, I have tried to go back there, there is no way, at the moment there is something that thinking "I want that" or "I don't want that" you are moving away from the point where that thinking being does not exist.
There is no trick or path for this, it is not something you control, it will happen when it has to

Even saw someone say it could be caused by improper smoking method.

I have experienced similar things smoking with a pipe, now that I use vaper I do not remember noticing it, or not very intense, so it could be from smoking incorrectly, but I cannot affirm it, I have not experienced enough with the vaper.

Now, is this breaking through?

My conclusion is that this is something that you will find out in future trips, if you end up having trips like this normally at some point you will break another barrier, then you will have taken another step.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm really enjoying this thread, witnessing how the molecule is blowing minds. I also like seeing newer members interact together and express themselves so well.

I also love the attempts at communicating the ineffable. I understand what you all mean [in instances where you openly wonder if a statement makes sense or if others get it].

To answer your question simply, yes, I would consider all three of those experiences as "breakthroughs."

To my understanding the term is somewhat a shorthand for breaking through to the "other side."

There appear to be varying layers and intensities of breakthroughs. The lowest level of breakthrough often being called "sub-breakthrough." I don't think there's a term for the highest other than just being referred to as a (insert exclamatory adjective)breakthrough.

If there are entities, you can probably consider yourself on the other side. There are other cues imo as well. How vivid is it? How striking is it? How much appears to be going on? How does it feel etc.

Because each individual arrives at conclusions by different means than others in a lot of regards, especially in matter involving abstraction or some lack verifiability (like Hyperspace), I can't say I agree with knowing it when it happens. Some need help in understanding.

this thread and this thread may help you deal with the marble in your throat. I experience it sometimes. These threads may explain why.

I also agree with aspects of this discussion with expectations. If you want it too much, you won't get there. In my guidework, I've had individuals tell me they plan on "breaking through," and often, when that is stated as an intention, they end up kept in some intense swirling space and more inside themselves than beyond themselves (like in a breakthrough). It may be best to know that one has loaded a breakthrough dose, but set a different intention, authentically.

The molecule always has something new to show you.



One love

 

[stoneybalogna]

There is no trick or path for this, it is not something you control, it will happen when it has to

Lord, if that ain't the truth. I've approached LSD trips as you did, with the intention of returning to "that", whatever that is. Every attempt was rebuffed, and typically those trips were the ones I struggled the most in. And then there were trips where I go, "I'm gonna take 100ug, smoke some bud, have a nice time.", and *those* are the ones that led me to some kind of divine revelation, for lack of a better phrase.

I enjoyed your tale of your acid/brownie trip though lol. And I particularly enjoyed your reflection

from there I say that I do not learn new things as I grow up, I remember old things, I do not advance, I return, every time I reach a conclusion about something I am struck by a flash of the moment of eternity in which I thought, saw and felt.

Very similar to my own thoughts and beliefs(you mentioned religion and their valid attempts to understand/explain the world around them. I'm a firm believer that there are bits of truth in every religion, my belief being that the universe understands not everyone will like x, so here's y, and a z for this guy over here. And that it is our responsibility to piece that together.).

And Void, the second post you linked was actually the one I'd come across a little while ago! I'm sorry about your burp defying marble lmao :lol: I'll keep your closing statement in mind for future trips. My final trip on DMT was one where I'd decided to break through, and while there was LSD involved(which no doubt played a large role in this trip), it was one of my nastier ones, where I didn't really feel elevated(?) like I normally do after dosing. Rough trip. And thank you for the clarification of a "breakthrough". If I'm understanding correctly, there's no specific qualifications or "things" that must happen/be present during the experience, and that it's more subjective?

 

[PsilOutsider]

Stoneybalogna, first of all, you're now full member, congrats :3
Second... I recommend write (quote=NAME)... (/quote) putting the name of the quote's autor, in this way it is easier to locate who said what (It just happened to me, it took me a while to find out that those phrases were mine).

I enjoyed your tale of your acid/brownie trip though lol. And I particularly enjoyed your reflection

^.^

Very similar to my own thoughts and beliefs(you mentioned religion and their valid attempts to understand/explain the world around them. I'm a firm believer that there are bits of truth in every religion, my belief being that the universe understands not everyone will like x, so here's y, and a z for this guy over here. And that it is our responsibility to piece that together.).

I think omnism is the word

I'm really enjoying this thread, witnessing how the molecule is blowing minds. I also like seeing newer members interact together and express themselves so well.

Dude, this forum and its wonderful people invite you to do so ><

 

[stoneybalogna]

Second... I recommend write

Testing now, noticed other people doing it, didn't know how to myself
And omnism is precisely it! I knew there was a term for it, was escaping me lol.

Edit: Got it, thank you!
Edit 2: Meant to thank you for the congrats, too! Mama, we made it!

 

[Voidmatrix]

And thank you for the clarification of a "breakthrough". If I'm understanding correctly, there's no specific qualifications or "things" that must happen/be present during the experience, and that it's more subjective?

It's subjective in the sense that with this modality of experience no one will experience what you will the way you will. Sort of like traveling to another country. Other people can travel there too, and may comment on the same things, but not describe it in depth as you may, and thus won't have the same experience as you. There seems to be a bit of intersubjective verifiability with regard to hyperspace, so I'm hard-pressed to give a concrete answer about objective natures of a breakthrough versus subjective natures of a breakthrough. It's subjective in that no one else can know (because you can't take anyone with you to witness) whether you broke through or not. There are combinations of facets and aspects that will lead you toward the conclusion that you broke through. The more you interact with the molecule, the easier it will be to discern. Practice, practice, practice.

One love

 

[stoneybalogna]

There are combinations of facets and aspects that will lead you toward the conclusion that you broke through. The more you interact with the molecule, the easier it will be to discern. Practice, practice, practice.

I think I understand. Almost all of my trips, regrettably, were kind of shallow. And most of that comes from a lack of intent going into the trip, and almost certainly a general lack of respect. I'm hoping to get into this molecule with a little more reverence and consideration this time around. I'll definitely be trying to journal immediately after my trips in the hopes of remembering more. I think I ought to be better able to map my experiences and take something back with me.

 

[Voidmatrix]

There are combinations of facets and aspects that will lead you toward the conclusion that you broke through. The more you interact with the molecule, the easier it will be to discern. Practice, practice, practice.

I think I understand. Almost all of my trips, regrettably, were kind of shallow. And most of that comes from a lack of intent going into the trip, and almost certainly a general lack of respect. I'm hoping to get into this molecule with a little more reverence and consideration this time around. I'll definitely be trying to journal immediately after my trips in the hopes of remembering more. I think I ought to be better able to map my experiences and take something back with me.

I can't advocate for what you just stated enough. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but having clear intentions can really be key in navigating these experiences.

In my personal practice, I have a very deep bonded relationship with DMT. We show each other our good, bad, and ugly, and accept it all from each other. Another Nexian (Tomtegubbe) likened it to a marriage, which I think is more than appropriate.

Each and every time I intend to allow the spice to enter my body, I recite an invocation/prayer, even if I have no intention of going far (for example, when using it as an adjunct to meditation, like the one I just performed ). I adore, admire, respect and show the utmost reverence to the molecule, because I feel it's appropriate, meaningful, and healthy.

Looking forward to some trip reports

One love

 

[roninsina]

I totally agree that there doesn’t seem to be any real consensus on a definition and therefore the “breakthrough” has only subjective meaning.

Given that, my take is that a breakthrough is when you’re completely immersed in the experience. If I have a lot of conscious control that has the flavor of my waking persona and I can influence the direction of the experience with my ego, or if I can navigate a walk through the house, then I would consider that a sub-breakthrough for me.

However, I do have a lot of experiences that center around me and my personal emotional states that sort of feel like they’re internal, and I’m not really going anywhere other than playing around in the part of my mind that reflects ego state issues. From reading on this subject here on the forums over the years, I think a lot of folks who smoalk or imbibe much more frequently than I do, would consider this genre of experience to be sub-breakthrough.

One thing I have heard repeatedly, is that it’s best to pursue whatever feels like it’s doing you the most good. So, whether smoalking so much that you can’t remember anything or meditating on a threshold dose, it’s about what’s working for you today.

 

[PsilOutsider]

In my personal practice, I have a very deep bonded relationship with DMT. We show each other our good, bad, and ugly, and accept it all from each other. Another Nexian (Tomtegubbe) likened it to a marriage, which I think is more than appropriate.

Totally, I always say, mushrooms were my first love, with whom I maintain a relationship of affection. With a friend we once jokingly commented "we know that we are fatal when we have relationships with drugs as if they were people"

And DMT more than a marriage is like my friend / father / mother / girlfriend: v

 

[Fridge]

This is a question that occupied my mind for a while now, too.

I feel, I have only seen the tip of the iceberg when it come to DMT. I just started out to explore those realms. I have been in a different place and had first contact with entities, but I feel I haven't gone were I am attracted to, yet. I don't know what it is, that I feel is waiting/calling for me on that side. I believe once I found out, I will know what a breakthrough is.

 

[Voidmatrix]

In my personal practice, I have a very deep bonded relationship with DMT. We show each other our good, bad, and ugly, and accept it all from each other. Another Nexian (Tomtegubbe) likened it to a marriage, which I think is more than appropriate.

Totally, I always say, mushrooms were my first love, with whom I maintain a relationship of affection. With a friend we once jokingly commented "we know that we are fatal when we have relationships with drugs as if they were people"

And DMT more than a marriage is like my friend / father / mother / girlfriend: v

I have to say I'm in full agreement [in that it's so much more than a marriage]. It really transcends that (like many other things), but the intimate intensity and connection makes "marriage" a really good analogy imo.

One love

 

[PsilOutsider]

Fridge, you're full member now too, congrats :3

This is a question that occupied my mind for a while now, too.

I feel, I have only seen the tip of the iceberg when it come to DMT. I just started out to explore those realms. I have been in a different place and had first contact with entities, but I feel I haven't gone were I am attracted to, yet. I don't know what it is, that I feel is waiting/calling for me on that side. I believe once I found out, I will know what a breakthrough is.

You mean there really is a bottom? I believe that this works with your head, and whenever you travel and put information in it, on the next trip it will also work with that information, I believe that when you reach the bottom, the spice, or your unconscious, will generate a new greater world for you. It's the same old thing, but with greater depth, life is a spiral, we go around in circles seeing deeper things every time we pass, I think that is the true magic, as with something so simple life can make something so complex and infinite.

But the intimate intensity and connection makes "marriage" a really good analogy imo.

Totally agree ><

 

[Fridge]

Fridge, you're full member now too, congrats :3

This is a question that occupied my mind for a while now, too.

I feel, I have only seen the tip of the iceberg when it come to DMT. I just started out to explore those realms. I have been in a different place and had first contact with entities, but I feel I haven't gone were I am attracted to, yet. I don't know what it is, that I feel is waiting/calling for me on that side. I believe once I found out, I will know what a breakthrough is.

You mean there really is a bottom? I believe that this works with your head, and whenever you travel and put information in it, on the next trip it will also work with that information, I believe that when you reach the bottom, the spice, or your unconscious, will generate a new greater world for you. It's the same old thing, but with greater depth, life is a spiral, we go around in circles seeing deeper things every time we pass, I think that is the true magic, as with something so simple life can make something so complex and infinite.

Thank you, PsilOutsider

I don't know if there's a bottom to this experience in that sense. DMT is very enigmatic for me, even considering the fact that I am fairly inexperienced. There's definitely a relationship between me and the molecule. I feel it wants to show me something, which I have been in search for, for a long time. Or something I have lost a long time ago. Interestingly I don't know what it is I am searching for...

I had a similar feeling when I first discovered mushrooms a long time ago. Mushrooms have taken me to a place at which I truely felt at home and at peace. That's what I would consider a breakthrough moment with mushrooms.

I guess this is highly subjective. I told myself to not actively pursue a breakthrough. It will happen when it is supposed to happen.

 

[Kitisha]

Thank you all so much for your responses guys. I have been reading through it, but only now have to time to sit down and respond. I will now address a couple of things that were echoed in this thread.

1. The throat balls
The fact that other people experience this blew me away. I checked out the linked threads, but noone really seems to know what it is and why it happens. I only now realized, that i only had the ball when layering the dmt and plant matter. But even then, it happened only twice out of the several times i smoked dmt this way. Nothing similar happened when i used the machine, or enhanced leaf. I think i will make a new batch of enhanced leaf for future use, since im not sure if the layering is working for me that well. Im leaning towards the ball coming from improper smoking technique, but i do smoke a cigarette here and there. I also vape nicotine all the time. Stoneybalogna, in this second trip with the ball, it definitely felt like the healing entity MADE me feel the ball for some reason, but i of course could have been piecing together random bits of input into a somewhat coherent story.

What is yalls favorite method of ingestion?

2. The immersion
That is the thing that makes me doubt these were breakthrough trips. They seem to check all the boxes of what i thought a breakthrough would be, but as i said in the op, they werent very immersive. I felt like i was only half seeing it, like through a veil. If i was to describe it in the most cliché way- its like my third eye (the thing that allows you to see these worlds) is only partially open. I dont like when people talk like this, but i feel this metaphor best describes the feeling i have about this. I also had no control over the trip what so ever, i was just a passive observer.

Do you guys also see your psychedelic worlds like this? Or are you seeing it as clearly as your everyday reality? This i would really like to know.

3. The intention
Its not like im going into it with the thought "lets break through". I dont even really know what breaking through is! Although yeah, im curious about it, sounds attractive in a way. My intention is always just to observe whatever will be shown to me. I repeat to myself that i want to see beauty, and not to experience pain, but i also try to surrender and take whats given.

Once again thanks to everyone who responded, truly.

 

[roninsina]

My experience with your question from item 2 is these things are so vivid and real, that my normal waking state feels shadowy and translucent/watered down in comparison. I don’t know if everyone gets that, but even low doses (10mg) are extremely clear with high levels of complexity and dense color saturation.

If you’re not on any medication or what have you, that might interfere with how you metabolize the molecule, or don’t have a natural metabolism that processes the molecule before it gets to your brain, then I imagine you’ll get there at some point. It takes a lot of people a while to get dialed in.

I guess I’m one of the “lucky” sensitive ones. But that makes it harder for me to take the dive, because after twenty plus years of exposure to this molecule, a tiny dose is still pretty overwhelming for me, every time.

 

[Exitwound]

Best definition of a breakthrough for me would be - you'd know it was breakthrough if it was breakthrough

Then some BTs later, you discover yet another level. I didn't go deeper than that.

Regardint faintness of visuals - good BT dose you wont even be able make sense of surroundings at the start, reality will become much different and they will twist it into another reality, you cann't even realize eyes are open or not at the moment, what is eyes anyways? It won't be just visuals, full immersion better than any VR headset 1000x times.
Some doses just teleported me there skipping all the foreplay.

Regarding achieving BT, if you keep using and integrating, your tolerance will drop. Not much meeded for BT, for me anything after 25mg was danger zone

 

[null24]

what the hell is this drug? How can such an alien experience be a part of us?

Don't trust anyone who tells you they know the answer to that question. The only thing I know for certain about DMT is what you just expressed.