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What is happening to our community?

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Thank you for the example ragabr...I couldn't have put it better myself 😉

a1pha said:
I think it's about supporting that issues with facts and reason, regardless of which side you're on...
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This is it, to my mind. There are threads that don't require evidence, such as subjective trip reports and experiences, Art appreciation threads, Methods for exploring consciousness and arguably the mystic/esoteric section (depending on your point of view), as well as perhaps a few others not touched upon in this brief address.

For threads that deal with science, politics, medical advice or any other arena in which hard evidence or consensus reality data is applicable, evidence is required, per the Nexus attitude. This, to my mind, is one of the ways that the Nexus has maintained the high standard of discussion that has existed here since before I became a member.

If I were to add a Nexian generalization, it would have to echo ragabr's.
 
And if one does not, do we hound them? Do we harrass them? Do we treat them with diplomacy and respect?

I stand by my statement that I would like to see more tolerance for diversity of opinion. That doesn't mean you have to believe someone who has a different opinion or even let an extraordinary claim go uncontested.

What I would like to see is more tact and diplomacy and again, as I watch myself and others, I see it happens for awhile, then there is a kind of "regression to the mean," pun INTENDED here.

I've got nothing against requiring facts and demanding backup documentation for strange or extraordinary claims. I'm not opposed to trying to get threads that have been de-railed back on topic. My issue is in our style of how we do it.
 
To be honest, I feel that people come here at times with more "esoteric" ideas, or less popular ideas on politics and related things and are treated like shit. I have seen it many times. I understand that this forum is largely NOT esoteric minded and there are alot of scientific minded rationalists here and that is fine. When I come here now I actaully do censor myself from discussion of certain things that I would discuss elsewhere becasue I do not feel these ideas are welcome here and that is fine as well. I can discuss them elsewhere. I appreciate science and what it does for us and it definatily plays a role on this forum..but I can see how some might come here and be entirely put off by the reaction they get.

I dont feel the need to tell everyone that comes here with a less than proven or provable idea that they need to back it up with sources etc..the problem is that these posts are not always in the esoteric section of the forum so in that case I guess all bets are off..
 
Pandora said:
I've got nothing against requiring facts and demanding backup documentation for strange or extraordinary claims. I'm not opposed to trying to get threads that have been de-railed back on topic. My issue is in our style of how we do it.
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True enough... and wise words, Sister. When I first came to this site, a veritable Rip Van Winkle, I was greeted with open arms and a friendly demeanor. Not that I am saying that we have lost this bedside manner, I suggest we have simply fallen prey to the age-old end result of any community... we have become a "bureaucracy". Like it or not, we must look deeply into the the mirror and see ourselves. :shock:

Order is most necessary. No quarrel there, since without rules, chaos seizes the day. Granted, authority MUST be implicit from the very get-go, obviously, so as to avert any misconduct from unruly members. What I have been continuously frustrated with, as of late, is that despite our collective, learned pedigree, we seem to have somewhat forgotten our common UNITY. :idea:

We are, effectively, an oasis in the overtly commercial expanse of the Internet. If anything really maters, and arguably it may very well not matter, it is the value of communication between like-minded individuals. True? Accepting that we might just fall into two exaggerated extremes in polarized category (which I don't feel is truly accurate in it's grasp of what occurs in discussion or debate), we must essentially coexist. If we might survive into the undecided future of our acquaintance, we'd best consider establishing a more OPEN platform to discuss the subtle nature of existential reality. Eh? :roll:

I echo joedirt, endlessness and Pandora in their belief that we can and MUST do a better job at expressing ourselves without acting heartless or derisive. It's not a contest... it's a gathering. Plain and simple, it is a gathering of souls who have been changed for the good, by encountering the Spirit Molecule. I salute you all and respect your intelligence (even when it runs boldly 45 degrees divergent to mine own). 😉

Here's to you splendid and unique folks!
 
fractal enchantment said:
I dont feel the need to tell everyone that comes here with a less than proven or provable idea that they need to back it up with sources etc...
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Probably, neither does anyone else. But when people come with "less than proven or provable idea(s)" and then CLAIM THEM as PROVED, that's when the requests for "back up" start to be put forth ardently.

If somebody says: "Sometimes I think I have ESP, because I just got a call from my uncle, and I felt sure it was him before I picked up the phone." Well...fine. That's certainly "less than proven," and I think nothing more is implied, and probably little challenge would be made.

But if somebody says: "You know how you can feel when somebody is staring at your back? Well, it's been PROVED to be true, and that it works by telepathy." THEN, well, those who DISAGREE that it has in fact been proved will begin asking for the PROOF, and (I might suspect) begin CHALLENGING the veracity of those proof claims. Is that "treating someone like shit?"
 
just because situations like you described above tend to occur often here does not mean that other situations do not occur where people are treated poorly on occasion. The frequent occurance of one type of scenario does not make the other okay.
 
I'd say it's a brewing conflict between immaterialists, materialists, and skeptics, rather than rationalists and irrationalists. Heck, immaterialists and skeptics have arrived to their conclusions via human reason, too.
 
easyrider said:
I'd say it's a brewing conflict between immaterialists, materialists, and skeptics, rather than rationalists and irrationalists. Heck, immaterialists and skeptics have arrived to their conclusions via human reason, too.
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I see it this way..this forum is largely going to attract more rational science/materialist minded people compared to place like the ayahuasca forums..why?..becasue this place is largely associated with chemistry and the extraction/purification of certain substances..it makes sense that more chemists and scientists will frequent this place and a place like the ayahuasca forums will attract a larger portion of people interested in more esoteric/shamanic ideas.
 
easyrider said:
I'd say it's a brewing conflict between immaterialists, materialists, and skeptics, rather than rationalists and irrationalists. Heck, immaterialists and skeptics have arrived to their conclusions via human reason, too.
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Exactly!!! You are most wise to point out such an obvious fact. Kudos!!! We certainly all think and contemplate through the mechanics of reason and the mental parameters of rationale. When we choose, however, step beyond the boundary lines of logic and rationality... we are alone in the immeasurable expanse of the universe with nothing but our own awareness. We are then left, if we are so graced by the force of a self-shattering Sacred Medicine, with the opportunity to face our own ego death (however temporary). And so too, experience what exists outside of the realm of the known. This is a wonderful chance for the inquisitive psychonaut.

How then, is it that some chose to embrace the immaterial ESSENCE and some chose to embrace the material LAWS of reality? I often oscillate between the dualities implied and I know for a fact that many of our family do so, as well. Essentially, we must be intelligent, exploitative and ready to abandon preconceived conditioning, if we are able to pierce the membrane which effectively separates what we have come to accept as "REALITY" and that which is forevermore, beyond our cognitive grasp? You know, that which is eternal, insubstantial and without quantifiable, definable characteristics of mechanics at play? Agree or disagree about our existential beliefs, we all stand naked before the power of God. By God, I mean the 21st century variant:
The Unified Field of Intelligence/Energy/Consciousness. :idea:

Some call it an unknown variable in the causation of quantum fluctuations and hence, the ramifications of the birth of our measurable physical universe. Others proclaim that an Omniscient, Divine Will has crafted the mind-boggling complexity of the known cosmos (and it's equally unknown counterpart, the Void). When all the dust settles, at the end our our brief lifetimes, we all stand on the edges of infinity. Yes, we each create the fabric of collective, consensus reality, each in our own dream, each in our own personal quadrant of this multidimensional universe. Cheers guys!!! 😉
 
I'm curious about something, say you were taken aboard an alien spacecraft by E.T's, flown around and shown other planets and star systems then deposited back at your house with no substances involved, just an ordinary day like any other. would you believe the experience? or would you deny it happened to you ? just trying to figure some things out here .... ( this question is for any of you )
 
I think the only ways we tend to validate our experiences in a meaningful way is by checking reproducibility (i.e. if I go out into the woods and find a house, then go out another day and find the same house, it's more likely to be real or rather believable by myself that it exists), or by having other people check reproducibility (i.e. they go out into the woods and find the same house I described...) - or by evidence that is detectable by physical methods.

Anything that happens only once, leaving no physically detectable marks could be anything from real to hallucination. If it's not reproducible (if that is established) and leaves no traces we cannot verify it in the sense that it was part of physical, non-subjective reality, then we have to figure out what other aspects of this experience could have meaning to us. Certainly any experience can be meaningful on many many levels without having to be verifiable in the collective/physical reality. Does it make you a more open person, having seen intergalactic colonies? How does it make you feel and what can you do with this information aside from knowing if it's true or not? There's so much more to existence than these binary modes of thinking where it's either true or false...

Why not forget about that question and investigate the depths of the experience and yourself?
 
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