What is it? DMT, NMT, DMT-N-Oxide or just plant matter?

[Contact]

Howdy everyone.

It's been a long while since my last post on this forum. So happy to be back and see, that the community is still up and alive.

I've been off the hook for some years, but i'm moving back to experience hyperspace again.

Sorry if this is the wrong subforum. Didn't know exactly where i should put it.

I still had somewhat like 3.5g of old spice standing in my cupboard for the last 3-4 years which i never touched.

So i wanted to check, if it is still there and if i can make some changa out of it.

I have realized, that the DMT became "orangeish" or brownish. So i thought i just do another freeze preciption to get the white crystals back. I dissolved everything in some Naphta, but strangely, the huge part of my old DMT didn't solute in the naphta (which it actually should, if it still was DMT).

I was left with 3g of this (see pic) which was absolutely not soluble. But it smells like DMT.

the rest is in now in the freezer (around 0.5g) which i expect to just precipate in the next hours or so.

Is this DMT-N-Oxide, NMT (which i don't think) or is this just the dmt attached to plant matter?

I'm kinda confused, about it. Thanks for any help.

Cheers and happy to be back.
Contact

Edit: By the way, the DMT was extracted with Nomans STB tek some years ago.

 

[Voidmatrix]

This thread may help.

One love

 

[Loveall]

How hot did you get the Naphtha? Is it heavy painters naphtha (8 carbon chains or more) or light lighter fluid (6 to 8 carbon chains)?

I think some of your DMT aggregated over time which lowers its solubility in Naphtha.

If you haven't already, I would first try to dissolve it in lighter fluid naphtha (e.g. ronsonol) immersed in a hot water bath (no open flames). Let the naptha boil (ideally you can get it to boil) for a while to break up any aggregation. You may get some red goo at the bottom, don't decant it right away, keep it in the hot naphtha for a while and see if it all dissolves with time. Then cool to room temp and freeze precipitate.

 

[IridiumAndLace]

The exact nature of the substance in front of you is a subject of current debate. I really wish we could run a bit of that through an LC/MS, an IR spec, and an NMR spec, to try and get a really good idea of what's going on there. Could shed some light on this mystery!

Loveall believes that your DMT has aggregated over time, the molecules having clumped together into a sort of polymer that's hard to dissolve in NPS and even harder to smoalk. If you break up the polymer, it'll turn back into white xtals.

I suspect that some of your DMT has oxidized over time, and what you have now is similar to Loveall's polymer. Except, at the center of each "clump" of DMT is a molecule of DMT-n-oxide. If you reduce the oxide back into DMT, the polymer will fall apart and again leave you with white xtals.

My advice is to do a mini-A/B on it, but add zinc powder during the acid step:

• Dissolve all the powder in a small amount of near-boiling vinegar or citric acid. I recommend citric but I think acetic should work too. This may take a while, but keep it hot and keep mixing it, and it should all dissolve eventually.
• Add a few grams of zinc dust, and continue mixing it for like an hour. Keep it hot, 60-80°C. You should see it change color from yellow-orange to almost clear. Be sure to vent the container to avoid pressure buildup from the zinc reacting with the acid.
• Decant or filter off the zinc, add the NPS of your choice, and keep mixing gently while you add sodium hydroxide solution drop by drop. Wear safety goggles when handling aqueous NaOH!
• When the water layer turns milky and stays that way, stop adding base. Look to see if you have a layer of liquid DMT floating between the water and NPS layers. If you do, just keep mixing until it all dissolves into the NPS. Then pull most of the NPS out and replace it with fresh NPS. Add a bit more base, and mix it a bunch more. (The water layer will stay milky--this is just zinc oxide.) Then pull the NPS, combine it with the previous pull, and put all the solvent into the freezer.
• Freeze the NPS for at least 24 hours, then decant the solvent, dry the xtals, and do a final re-x.

You can buy zinc dust online for cheap, but in a pinch, you can get powdered zinc from fresh alkaline batteries (not ones that say "heavy duty" ). Use a pliers to remove the top of the battery, pull out the anode rod, and carefully scoop out the gray zinc paste. (Be careful not to get any of the potassium hydroxide electrolyte on your skin and try not to get any of the black manganese dioxide out with the zinc.) Rinse the zinc with fresh water 3-4 times, and if you see any globs of gel sticking around, pick those out. One size C battery got me about 10 grams of powdered zinc, before I went on eBay and got 3 lbs of zinc dust for $20.

If you follow Loveall's approach, DO NOT boil solvent in a confined space and DO NOT boil solvent over a flame! NPS vapors are unhealthy to breathe, possibly damaging to nearby surfaces, and potentially explosive. Either do this in a very well-ventilated area, like next to a window with a fan blowing outside, or use a reflux apparatus to trap the solvent before it escapes. And NEVER heat anything in a sealed container!

Whichever approach you try, please let us know what you did and how it turned out! In the absence of conclusive analytical data, empirical tests like this might give us some clues into this phenomenon.

 

[Contact]

Thank you very much for your replies.

As i have only naphta available at the moment, i did yesterday a re-x with naphta (still waiting for the n-heptane) and that absolutely did the trick.

I went with this Tek but with naphta instead of heptane: Re-x -- Recrystallization Pictorial - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I have to say, that it soluted pretty well in hot naphta. Also the substance melted well in the shotglass.

I did a first try with 500mg, the yield is amazing. will weigh it later when it's dry to let you know how much yielded. The rest (Brown solid leftovers) i will keep for further processing.

as i still have 2.5g left, i will do some more research, as soon as i have heptane available. Also i will try your approach Iridium and try to put all steps together for you.

Edit: Ok, that was not as intended. The yield of the Naphta re-x gave me only 160mg yellow crystals back. I guess the rest "junk" is still some very active and potent stuff.

As i am not a master of chemistry, i'm thinking of just doing a 1:1 change with the rest and go for it

 

[Loveall]

You may have some DMT in your naptha that didn't freeze precipate. I think it can be up to 1mg/ml (?). You can evap and check.

I would be very interesting to know if heptane can dissolve the residue that the heavier naptha left. It could simply be aggregated DMT that could be broken up by the lighter hydrocarbon.

Heat should also break it up, so directly smoking the residue with flame should work too. e-devices may need a higher temp setting than usual.

 

[Contact]

Did another test with 500mg and aceton to make changa.

In aceton it dissolved completely (it got very brown). Changa is now done and the dmt was completeley soaked up by the herbs.

I know, its not really an analytical approach, but it worked with that. Waiting now to get my hands no neptane. Quite difficult around here in europe.

 

[Loveall]

Did another test with 500mg and aceton to make changa.

In aceton it dissolved completely (it got very brown). Changa is now done and the dmt was completeley soaked up by the herbs.

I know, its not really an analytical approach, but it worked with that. Waiting now to get my hands no neptane. Quite difficult around here in europe.

No worries, your acetone solubility test is valuable. I believe DMT oxide is insoluble in acetone, so your test could be evidence that DMT oxide did not form over the years.

IridiumAndLace, what do you think? Is it possible that the DMT oxide hypothesis is still compatible with this solubility test if the entire complex you mention above is picked up by acetone as a large aggregate of molecules? Or do you think it is evidence against it?

PS: Instead of heptane you could try to get lighter fluid. I think Zippo lighter fluid is light naphtha, similar to ronsonol lighter fluid. You can check the MSDS in your country.