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What is the brain function with DMT? How does it really work?

Migrated topic.
Read Dr. Strassman's book The Spirit Molecule pg79
There is no DMT in the human body!
read his stuff about the pineal gland over and over.
It has nothing to do with DMT!
Strassman states clearly there is no DMT in the Human body whatsoever, it's all conjecture and a unproven hypothesis.
To this day there has never been any DMT found in or produced by the Human body.
In fact the pineal STOPS the production of psychedelic experience.
Dr. Strassman states this very clearly.

How does SOLY expect to be a DMT researcher if one can not even comprehend reading something written at a 5th grade leval.
Dr. Strassman is a joke, and people who rewrite his stuff are even worse.
 
damn, I thought they found it in every plant though, so who says it's in everything? they haven't even found it in a person yet? weird, maybe it just functions so well because it's in between 5-htp and seratonin, right? oh well...

i know one thing, i wouldn't believe that something only released twice in your life will be found in the human body, AND it can be acted upon, and give you a clear experience.

In fact, the human body regulates itself constantly, mammals are high energy burning oxygen consuming animals, and i don't think ANYTHING isn't circulated, IF ANYTHING, it's something that RESEMBLES something else, but it is found in the human body, the only way it would be seldomly used, is if the brain needs it as a stable chemical to hold onto, only in a precursor mode to be made into something else, like seratonin, or melatonin, or some crap.

the fact is, most amino acids are so rare, the human body probably HAS to hang onto them because they are not easily replenished.

It's probably the experience of dmt that leads people to believe it's so rare. And honestly I don't blame them, because i get that same reaction, but a molecule is a molecule, and it has a purpose, besides leading someone away from death.


OTHERWISE, if it was some grand spiritual molecule, interconnected to everything, than i'd be right about all organic chemicals being similar, and that lsd is something that should be found in nature, because of it's close relationship to something easily needed in it's basic structure, by all organic life on earth. But it can't be both.

either there's a connection, or a molecule is just needed for the host it's being used by, and NOT NECESSARILY by anything else(although You can't say i'm wrong completely, because THERE IS a chain of things used by life, so if there's a connection, you can't say something else is COMPLETELY off.

for example, if you can say plants need protein, and people need protein, and plants need vitamins they create, and people need vitamins they create, you can't COMPLETELY say that lysergic acid diethylamide isn't some basic organic molecule, if it is for people, exept that plants aren't as complicated as humans, so you therefore you can't create a reason a plant would need it as a necessity.

oh well
 
Read Dr. Strassman's book The Spirit Molecule pg79
There is no DMT in the human body!
read his stuff about the pineal gland over and over.
It has nothing to do with DMT!
Strassman states clearly there is no DMT in the Human body whatsoever, it's all conjecture and a unproven hypothesis.
To this day there has never been any DMT found in or produced by the Human body.
In fact the pineal STOPS the production of psychedelic experience.
Dr. Strassman states this very clearly.

endogenous DMT has been found in human blood and as far as I know human cerebral spinal fluid. I am staring at two publications that specifcally state this. As far as I know it has not been discounted. The one review paper is very recent 2005. Concerning the pineal gland yes this as far as I know is speculation. However DMT's endogenous role may be more involved in TA (trace amine) receptors and when present in high doses or administered IV or smoked or whatever swamps your 5-HT receptors and initiates psychedelic experience. However still not everything is known. Some people are proposing that endogenous DMT may function as an anxiolytic.

How does SOLY expect to be a DMT researcher if one can not even comprehend reading something written at a 5th grade leval.
Dr. Strassman is a joke, and people who rewrite his stuff are even worse.

Although many people may not understand the complicated neurochemistry involved I would not call Dr strassman a joker. He did a very important thing which was to get permission to do a human study with a psychedelic drug the first time in many years. I respect him for that. He can speculate on DMT's role but obviously there is no solid proof yet.

for example, if you can say plants need protein, and people need protein, and plants need vitamins they create, and people need vitamins they create, you can't COMPLETELY say that lysergic acid diethylamide isn't some basic organic molecule, if it is for people, exept that plants aren't as complicated as humans, so you therefore you can't create a reason a plant would need it as a necessity.

that makes no sense. LSD is an organic molecule! Organic doesnt mean made in nature however! thousands of organic molecules have been synthesized by human beings that have never ever ever ever been found in nature and have a huge range of biological activity. look at the structure of LSD look at the structure of other ergot alkaloids. LSD is made by humans we synthesize it. So far no plant or fungus has ever been found to produce LSD. End of story! maybe one day it will be found but I doubt it. If your so concerned about it go try and find it.
 
burnt said:
that makes no sense. LSD is an organic molecule! Organic doesnt mean made in nature however! thousands of organic molecules have been synthesized by human beings that have never ever ever ever been found in nature and have a huge range of biological activity. look at the structure of LSD look at the structure of other ergot alkaloids. LSD is made by humans we synthesize it. So far no plant or fungus has ever been found to produce LSD. End of story! maybe one day it will be found but I doubt it. If your so concerned about it go try and find it.

everyone always seems to get to far bent over this. I used the wrong word, i meant a natural molecule, not synthesized. I guess that's wrong also, oil is an organic natural molecule, well I meant made in a sense by nature.

the point I was trying to make is, that you can't say just because dmt gives you a out of life type experience that means that's it's function. Just as you wouldn't say that since lsd gives you a similar sort of experience, that's it's basic function and why it's found blah blah blah because no one agrees with that. Just as I was saying it might end up being some basic compound because of how easily a human would incorporate it, a plant might as well, and you told me that definately wasn't the case. There's no way you can say that just because dmt is found in everything, and that it gives a person a life/death feeling in a trip, that means that it necessarily HAS to have that function, and that it being found in trace quantities in all plants means that's it's basic function on the earth.

Although it could be, but not necessarily. Some of those things are hard to prove. Who can prove that a molecule is in essence to all life for a death experience, maybe if a person could prove an animal and a plant both use their dmt while dying or sprouting/birth, then I suppose so. But what about bacteria or viruses, they don't contain dmt do they? so only multicellular life has it? See, now we're going down different roads, I don't think one can make up a reason why they two don't connect.


You get me??

Personally, i'd be interested in anything reaction so organically being found in nature no matter what it was, since the likelyness of something else following such a similar organic pathway wouldn't be rare, considering we all followed a similar organic pathway somewhere in evolution. However, that couldn't be explained completely, because of the nature of poisonous organic materials being found in plants, unless those plants always put that there as a poison purposely so animals wouldn't eat it.

It IS amazing that plants can figure out what to produce so animals wouldn't eat it, although i'm sure it followed a slow process of evolution. Who's to say basic cellular life doesn't have some conscious form with response and feedback, giving it some basic ability to determine what would poison something.

The amazing poisons to me are ones like resin and such, that stop a selfs basic reproductive ability, and yet don't kill the plant that produces it. I guess person uses oxygen in atp synthesis where a plant uses something different using nitrogen and photosynthesis and such.
 
burnt said:
endogenous DMT has been found in human blood and as far as I know human cerebral spinal fluid. I am staring at two publications that specifcally state this. As far as I know it has not been discounted. The one review paper is very recent 2005. Concerning the pineal gland yes this as far as I know is speculation. However DMT's endogenous role may be more involved in TA (trace amine) receptors and when present in high doses or administered IV or smoked or whatever swamps your 5-HT receptors and initiates psychedelic experience. However still not everything is known. Some people are proposing that endogenous DMT may function as an anxiolytic.

what is an anxiolytic?
 
imachavel said:
burnt said:
endogenous DMT has been found in human blood and as far as I know human cerebral spinal fluid. I am staring at two publications that specifcally state this. As far as I know it has not been discounted. The one review paper is very recent 2005. Concerning the pineal gland yes this as far as I know is speculation. However DMT's endogenous role may be more involved in TA (trace amine) receptors and when present in high doses or administered IV or smoked or whatever swamps your 5-HT receptors and initiates psychedelic experience. However still not everything is known. Some people are proposing that endogenous DMT may function as an anxiolytic.

what is an anxiolytic?

1) Anxiolytic is an anti-anxiety chemcial/drug/substance, like Zoloft.

2) I'm looking at Strassman's book in front of me. It's stated repeatedly that DMT is found in the human body.

3) I don't know about you but so far the spice makes me pretty anxious... then it wears off and I'm high on life.
 
ElfSpice said:
Read Dr. Strassman's book The Spirit Molecule pg79
There is no DMT in the human body!
read his stuff about the pineal gland over and over.
It has nothing to do with DMT!
Strassman states clearly there is no DMT in the Human body whatsoever, it's all conjecture and a unproven hypothesis.
To this day there has never been any DMT found in or produced by the Human body.
In fact the pineal STOPS the production of psychedelic experience.
Dr. Strassman states this very clearly.

How does SOLY expect to be a DMT researcher if one can not even comprehend reading something written at a 5th grade leval.
Dr. Strassman is a joke, and people who rewrite his stuff are even worse.

Dr. STRASSMAN states that no DMT has been found to date...not that there is NONE in the human body. As burnt stated, IT HAS SINCE BEEN FOUND IN THE BODY. In the urine, intestines, feces, spinal fluid. Also 5-ho-dmt has been found in the same places.

Strassman is not a joke, he is a researcher who has undertaken a very large challange. He does make a lot of hypothesis in his but, but this does not make him a joke.

Why so much hostility?
 
3) I don't know about you but so far the spice makes me pretty anxious... then it wears off and I'm high on life.

yes however the levels that it is found in human blood is so low that it may have a very subtle effect. not like doses you have when you dose yourself.

I guess person uses oxygen in atp synthesis where a plant uses something different using nitrogen and photosynthesis and such.

plants also respire the same way we do.

It IS amazing that plants can figure out what to produce so animals wouldn't eat it, although i'm sure it followed a slow process of evolution. Who's to say basic cellular life doesn't have some conscious form with response and feedback, giving it some basic ability to determine what would poison something.

they dont figure it out in the sense that you and I figure out that by touching something hot you get burned. plants learn through death and reproduction. that is their way.

There's no way you can say that just because dmt is found in everything, and that it gives a person a life/death feeling in a trip, that means that it necessarily HAS to have that function, and that it being found in trace quantities in all plants means that's it's basic function on the earth.

the point is DMT is an easy molecule to make (biosynthetically) and it happens to interact with the nervous system of a large spew on animal life. to humans we can tolerate a high dose and even like it. to another animal or insect it may be very disturbing to have such weird alterations or deadly in the case of insects. nicotine is dangerous to insects as well (but lots of people love it). that is part of the role these compounds play.

he point I was trying to make is, that you can't say just because dmt gives you a out of life type experience that means that's it's function. Just as you wouldn't say that since lsd gives you a similar sort of experience, that's it's basic function and why it's found blah blah blah because no one agrees with that. Just as I was saying it might end up being some basic compound because of how easily a human would incorporate it, a plant might as well, and you told me that definately wasn't the case.

the only point in trying to make is that just because LSD is an active compound in humans does not mean it is made in nature. i am not trying to bash you or insult your ideas I am just trying to help you think a little more about what you are saying and learn a bit more about plant and fungal secondary metabolism because it seems to be something you are interested in.
 
i hear you, what I was trying to say is.

if there was a protein your body needed, and it was protein sl-2, gotten from a plant, and there was a synthesized protein, pnln4-sl-3, that fit right into your bodies production of sl-2, and could actually be used in place of sl-2, that doesn't by any means mean that considering that relationship, that it's likely that pnln4-sn-3 is a very logical organic molecule, and could be found in nature.

this whole statement is the basis of me thinking it would be readily produced by a plant in the right situation. And trust me, I don't feel offended by what you're saying, people on the shroomery spent hours saying "this shit is stupid, who would think of this" then when I'd tell them they were assholes, they said I was flaming them.:?

everyone has their opinion, I'm no chemistry expert. As long as there's no name calling, everyone is free to agree or disagree with whatever they want.

that's the rules, right?
 
Its all good ive spent last many years of my life studying and working on these kind of things so if i can offer some knowledge and get new ideas im happy to do so.


f there was a protein your body needed, and it was protein sl-2, gotten from a plant, and there was a synthesized protein, pnln4-sl-3, that fit right into your bodies production of sl-2, and could actually be used in place of sl-2, that doesn't by any means mean that considering that relationship, that it's likely that pnln4-sn-3 is a very logical organic molecule, and could be found in nature.

this whole statement is the basis of me thinking it would be readily produced by a plant in the right situation.

yes but your body makes all its own proteins. it uses certain essential amino acids from foreign sources (because we cant make them all). but i see your are trying to make an analogy to a substance like LSD.

however in order for a plant or a fungus to make LSD it would need a specific set of enzymes to convert whatever other ergot alkaloid it makes into LSD. it would need to aquire these enzymes through evolution of genetic mutations etc. although this is theoretically possible the types of reactions the enzyme would need to catalyze as far as i know have not been observed.
 
yes, I think that an enzyme sps1 changes paspalic acid into lysergic acid, and then an enzyme sps2 changes lysergic acid into lysergic acid amide. I know what you're saying
 
the brain lacks the mRNA transcripts for the expression of INMT, the methylating enzyme of endogenous tryptamine. the currently accepted mechanism is derived from tryptophan metabolism, via tryptophan decarboxylase to yield tryptamine, then methylation 2X via INMT, which is thought to occur in peripheral tissues. incidentally, dmt production inhibits the synthesis of serotonin/melatonin
 
I read that the pineal gland is the only part of the human body that is not "connected" to the rest of the body.. it exists near the center of the brain but takes its signals from a lense, like a cornea or eye.. it 'sees' it's signals, it's not connected via 'wiring' to the brain... at least that's what i read... if so, doesn't that mean the pineal gland is not really part of us, just sort of trapped in us?

From what i understand the pineal is the master emotional and spiritual gland whereas the pituitary is the master physical body gland. Could it be the pineal is alien while the pituitary is of this world? And can the pineal gland continue to 'live' in some way, stay active perhaps, without the rest of the brain?
 
flyboy said:
I read that the pineal gland is the only part of the human body that is not "connected" to the rest of the body.. it exists near the center of the brain but takes its signals from a lense, like a cornea or eye.. it 'sees' it's signals, it's not connected via 'wiring' to the brain... at least that's what i read... if so, doesn't that mean the pineal gland is not really part of us, just sort of trapped in us?

From what i understand the pineal is the master emotional and spiritual gland whereas the pituitary is the master physical body gland. Could it be the pineal is alien while the pituitary is of this world? And can the pineal gland continue to 'live' in some way, stay active perhaps, without the rest of the brain?

thats really interesting..where did you read that
 
You know, what is really interesting about Psilocin, DMT, LSD, LSA and a few other substances? They more or less resemble 5-HT, Serotonin, a neurotransmitter or rather THE neurotransmitter. Maybe, just maybe, those substances can replace Serotonin in the body, but react just a little different. So the transmission of information in the brain is changed in whatever way. As I read, just 10% of what we perceive is actually sensual information, the other 90% is... well, imagination based on genetically inherited information, experience, etc. Remember the american natives that couldn't see the big spanish ships at the horizon until they stood right before them? They couldn't imagine them, so they couldn't perceive them. When the function of Serotonin is partially replaced by another substance, it might be possible, that the 90% part is somehow different. We perceive the "same" world, but it's interpretation is different, sometimes A LOT different. A reversion of this theory would result in: We are normally tripping on Serotonin and life is actually a 5-HT trip.
 
Could it be the pineal is alien while the pituitary is of this world? And can the pineal gland continue to 'live' in some way, stay active perhaps, without the rest of the brain?

The pineal gland and every other living cell in your body needs oxygen without it those cells cannot function. therefore no the pineal is not seperate from the rest of the body and is certainly not alien its quite human take out some of its DNA compare it to the rest of your body and its human.

They more or less resemble 5-HT, Serotonin, a neurotransmitter or rather THE neurotransmitter. Maybe, just maybe, those substances can replace Serotonin in the body, but react just a little different.

although serotonin is very involved in perception its not the only or the major neurotransmitter. things like acetylcholine, endegenous cannabinoids, dopamine, gaba, endorphins etc etc are all playing an important role in allowing our mind to communicate with the rest of our body and interpret the signals coming from the outside world. we are tripping on them though if you look at it like that sure :p

its also important to note that things like LSD can only be detected in the body for an hour or so after that its gone its already done its major effect. the rest of the trip actually seems to be a result of the downstream effects of the agonism of LSD at 5-HT2 receptors. therefore they are not by any means replacing the neurotransmitters in your body (unlike things like opiates) they are just changing what you already have a brief tweak in the system causes the wonderful beautiful mess we call tripping.
 
its also important to note that things like LSD can only be detected in the body for an hour or so after that its gone its already done its major effect. the rest of the trip actually seems to be a result of the downstream effects of the agonism of LSD at 5-HT2 receptors. therefore they are not by any means replacing the neurotransmitters in your body (unlike things like opiates) they are just changing what you already have a brief tweak in the system causes the wonderful beautiful mess we call tripping.

Very well said. Not to mention the massively small dose LSD is, there is no way you have enough molecules left after losses to affect that many neurons. It must be a cascade started by LSD, where it’s the bodies natural chemicals doing most of the work.

It’s actually pretty sad, that for how much we know about other scientific fields, the lack of knowledge about mechanisms of psychedelics are in their infancy; thank the US government for that.
 
I wouldn't know if DMT has a function in the whole mind-body system. The human body produces many tryptamines adn some of them are psychedelic, but it is unclear what their function is. If they where initially just by products or products produced when the body metabolizes the initial usefull tryptamines, it is likely that during human evolution they 'aquired' a function, since this tendency towards efficience is something that's seen throuhout evolution. To me the real question here would not as much be what the function is of DMT, but more what the function would be of the various states of mind that could be assosciated with DMT (and other hallucinogen's) effects; dreaming, daydreaming,religious experience, NDE's, etc. I don't believe, like some people, that we're evolving towards a DMT consciousness instead of a serotonin consciousness. I would think that in our mind-body system we need a balance between the very well known rational states of mind (the serotonin state), and the 'creative' states of mind, the 'objective' way of looking at the world and the 'subjective' way.
I think that we're most likely to see answers to this questions during our lifetime, since many research is being done currently to the function dreaming has in our system. That dreaming is of vital importance to us, seems evident by now.
If DMT itself would not proof to actually have a function, it still makes sense to asume that these type of substances in disrupting the 'normal' serotonergic system, trigger a natural proces to switch back into another natural state of mind. most other substances that have effects as dramatic as psychedelic tryptamines do this by at the same time causing a serious intoxication.
 
XENONSION said:
I recently read about a woman who had a NDE during a surgery, in which she was "dead" in order to remove a brain aneurysm. 60 degree body temp, no heartbeat, no breathing, all the blood was removed from her head, etc. She heard a tone when her NDE began, it was a natural D note. Got me thinking of the DMT tone, i wonder what note it is?

as a musician, D is my favourite note and scale.

so powerful.

D.M.T.


Also, swim's favourite drug for composing is dmt freebase, smoked from a pipe.
 
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