What is your recommendation on solvents and why?

[Luz]

Can we all weigh in on what solvent we recommend/use and WHY? With both theorectical considerations and personal experiences?

I have researched on Nexus NPS solvents and studied:

Naptha
D Limonene -- which neither evaps nor freeze precips so requires going to fumarate
Toluene
Xylene
Hexane
Heptane
Diclormethane DCM
Cloroform

All, of course, have positives and negatives, but do we have somewhere a table and ranking and even a voting?

I am new to extraction and so don't have much experience with solvents. I have used only naptha which I don't like and is not the most efficient and not food safe, and D Limo which I do like but is only for fumarate and I want a FB option. My conclusion from my research is that DCM is the best option, but see others using/recommending another solvent while few seeming to use DCM. But when people use/recommend a solvent, they do not say WHY they use it, why it is the best or at least their choice.

I will start with DCM: Easy to get and in ACS purity, reasonably low cost, low boiling point of 39C makes it easy to distill and recover 90% with 100% purity for reuse (ergo very low cost and no discharge to the environment), fast evaporation, not flammable, not super toxic topically, ingested or inhaled. DMT is very soluble in DCM (much more than naptha) and is said to pull more DMT such that only 1 pull is necessary (not that I would use only one). DCM sinks in water faciliting the use of a separatory funnel. Emulsiones resolve fast. Negative: does not freeze precip.

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Quoting 69ron: "DCM can dissolve nearly all freebase alkaloids extremely well, better than highly non-polar solvents like heptane. Freebase alkaloids like mescaline and bufotenine are insoluble in heptane, but very soluble in DCM"

DCM is extremely useful. It evaporates REALLY FAST, boils at a very low temperature, and pulls almost everything under the sun. It’s just non-polar enough to allow A/B extractions to work, but polar enough to extract things like bufotenine, mescaline, etc., which solvents like heptane can’t extract.

The main problem with DCM is that it’s unhealthy to use it. But this is the case for most solvents. The other problem is that DCM is a GREAT SOLVENT and it pulls out almost everything. So when using it to extract alkaloids, you’ll most likely need a cleanup stage following it."
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On the observation that DCM can interact with DMT negatively: N-chloromethyl-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

Reaction of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine with Dichloromethane Under Common Experimental Conditions

A large number of clinically used drugs and experimental pharmaceuticals possess the N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) structural core. Previous reports have described the reaction of this motif with dichloromethane (DCM), a common laboratory solvent used ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"We find that the quaternary ammonium salt byproduct forms at an exceedingly slow rate, only accumulates to a significant extent upon prolonged exposure of DMT to DCM, and is readily extracted into water. Our results suggest that DMT can be exposed to DCM under conditions where contact times are limited (0 min) with minimal risk of degradation and that this byproduct is not observed following aqueous extraction.

DCM possesses many desirable traits like being one of the only commercially available low boiling solvents that is nonflammable.(15) One common alternative to DCM is diethyl ether, but the latter can be quite hazardous due to its low flash point (−45 °C), low autoignition temperature (180 °C), and ability to form peroxides.(16) Chloroform is another solvent commonly used as a replacement for DCM, but it is far from perfect. In the presence of a base, it can form dichlorocarbene, which is known to react with indoles and amines.(17) Additionally, it causes a variety of adverse health effects that are less likely to be caused by DCM.(18,19) Finally, both diethyl ether and chloroform are significantly more expensive than DCM (circa 1.5×). Therefore, despite the possibility of amines reacting with DCM through an SN2 reaction, this solvent remains attractive from safety and economic standpoints.(19)"
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[Elrik]

DCM and chloroform can be great, but in practice they're toxic and reactive. The literature is filled with 'discoveries' of new plant compounds only to be followed by a 'whoops, that researcher used DCM and it was the source of the new compound'.
I am biased tho, I once passed out face down in a spilled bottle of chloroform and am now patiently waiting to see if I some day die of liver cancer
Hexane is great, I wish I had 15 litres of it. But its also neurotoxic, explosively flammable, and annoyingly volatile. Slightly wet hexane is close to boiling in a hot room [bp of 94.4% n-hexane is 61.6°] and DMT is extracted into warm hexane. Good luck not breathing the fumes! Its used for freeze precips.
Heptane is much the same as a solvent but distinctly less volatile. Wet n-heptane boils at 79°C and dry n-heptane boils at 98° and DMT is extracted into warm heptane. Its used for freeze precips.
Toluene doesnt have to be used warm. Its a broader ranging solvent. It can easily evaporate from DMT goo. Its somewhat toxic.
Xylene is like toluene but its less volatile and somewhat less toxic, but harder to fully evaporate from crystals or goo. Its my favorite solvent for most DMT/mescaline applications. Water will sharply drop the boiling point, though, [from 139 to 92° for m-xylene] so be careful adding it to hot solutions and if you do, at least cover the beaker tightly with aluminum foil.
Naphtha [heavy naphtha] is used mainly for freeze precips and I understand it never really evaporates fully and thus I wouldnt use it as a final step for smokable DMT, but it would be convenient for getting DMT crystals to do a FASA salting on.
I've never seen limonene in my country.

 

[endlessness]

Limonene is way less toxic than any of the others, smells wonderful, will never call attention of neighbours. Disadvantage is that it's very 'sticky' and doesn't evap well, leaves residues, so you have to wash your product well to remove smell of oranges (but its not toxic if there's a little so it's not such an issue). Another disadvantage is that it's generally expensive, and less availability in some places (though these days you can order things online pretty much anywhere in the world and limonene is not watched or sketchy to order)

Personally my fav combination is limonene + FASI/FASA for DMT and mescaline extractions. The crystallization is a wonderful process you can grow nice crystals and it's easy to harvest them. Also you can later wash the limonene repeatedly with water and remove IPA/Acetone and excess fumaric acid, so you can reuse it.

Another possibility not mentioned in the op is doing dry-teks and using ethanol.

Also some people have had good success with using cooking oil of different kinds as solvents, for example sunflower seed oil, though I haven't used it yet. Like with limonene you'd have to salt it since it won't evap away cleanly.

 

[benzyme]

I use DCM, and haven't seen any chlorinated species in spectra when I scan it. It may be more of an issue if the bilayer is stored for a while.

 

[ducdevil]

i'm certainly not a chemist by any means but have learned an enormous amount here on the Nexus; both by reading as much as i can and occasionally asking for help via posts. thanks everyone!

i've tried many of the solvents discussed here and by far my favorite is lab-grade Petroleum Ether. from my experience it has several advantages yet presents some challenges.

it is very, very low-odor i've found which is a plus for me. it is incredibly quick to evaporate. and, perhaps most importantly, it seems to provide a consistent high yield of pure white crystals. i am guessing it is pretty selective and higher yield might be achieved with Heptane or even a more generalized solvent (Ronsonol, VM&P, etc...) but the ease of use makes up for what small amount might be gained with another choice.

for me the main downside is the astonishingly low boiling point. this created problems at first for the PE would actually boil (duh) when warmed above 30-35 degrees. if i added this simmering solvent to an already warm soup it would continue to boil and bubble in the vessel...that can't be good!!! adding this to the base soup would take forever to separate compltely, especially if the soup was already warm. this is why practice and experience is so important. after a few tries, i got it sorted.

i finally sorted out exactly what temps would work just right; heating the PE to just below boiling via a carefully controlled waterbath and cooling the base mixture for a while before addding the solvent. doing this, the layers separate fairly quickly, and no witches cauldron!

it also seems to have a really low saturation level; after pouring the pulls into the pyrex dish, just merely a breeze and the solvent clouds up immediately, letting me know the saturation level. into the freezer it goes!

just my two cents, admittedly from a novice....

 

[Luz]

THANK YOU all for your comments. I see there is no general consensus but a great variety of methods and preferences based on personal values: cost, odors, toxicity, etc.

My thinking is now also going the direction of Endlessness: STB--> D limo + FASW. I only need fumarates and this path is fast (2 hours), easy, safe as to vapors and to ingestion, smells good, and the D Limo is reusable after a wash so inexpensive. I only use orally and so no Re-X is necessary. I have tested the product and it is excellent.

Notes: STB instead of AB because Cybs AB did not give me a better yield than STB and not necessary defat with MHRB. FASW instead of FASI o FASA because you don't need to titrate and no evap of chems: just dump the FASW in and evaporate the H2O. Wash with acetone to remove excess fuma acid.

 

[Elrik]

I sympathize with your plan but I see a flaw in it.
DMT fumarate solution does not evaporate to crystals, it evaporates to more and more sticky unworkable goo. I've been there :lol: I was tempted to try and mix acetone with the goo so well that the DMT fumarate crashed out as microcrystaline powder but I knew my main products would be frustration and a headache from breathing far too much acetone, and in your case it certainly wouldnt fit with the low-toxicity approach you want.
A near equivalent to your proposal would be to do everything as said until you have a water solution of DMT fumarate and perhaps a little excess fumaric acid. Then, instead of evaporating to goo, cook off some water [and all of the residual limonene], cool to room temperature, and adjust the volume to a fixed value. Like 2 tbsp = 1 standard dose, that way you can adjust up or down by a teaspoon or two depending on what you want that time. Then load the solution into a plastic [PETE] bottle and freeze it. When you want some, put the bottle in a bucket of water until all the ice inside has melted and stir it up well before opening and removing your dose and returning the rest to the freezer. This way there is no variation in potency. I did like 24 doses that way and the last dose was just as good as the first one was 4 years earlier.
Any reasonable excess of fumaric acid wont hurt you, small amounts are used in candy.
The solution will smell funny, and will not taste good, but it works and it side-steps the need for isopropanol or acetone [ie. FASI or FASA teks].
If your very sensitive to nasty flavors, I'd say go for the FASI route and get crystal.

 

[Luz]

Interesting. I have had no trouble evaporating the FASW. I put a fan blowing over it over night. It dries very stuck to the evaporating dish which keeps it from blowing away. On scraping it up, it makes a very nice, very light yellow/tan powder, not at all sticky or gooey. I then started wiping the dish with cooking oil, just the lightest coat, and both with the oil on glass and also using a teflon baking pan, it scrapes up very easily into the powder.

 

[Elrik]

I envy you :lol: I that case, never mind.
It makes me wonder if yours crystallized due to excess fumaric acid [DMT hydrogen fumarate would be expected to be less highly soluble], or if mine gooized because of residual NMT.
Did you extract from MHRB or ACRB?

 

[Luz]

The following information comes from 69ron @

Separating 5-HO-DMT (bufotenin) from DMT - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

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List of alkaloids: (found in Cebil and Yopo)
As you can see, most of the alkaloids have an XlogP of 1.7 or lower.

0.1 - 6-methoxy-2-methyl-beta-Carboline
0.7 - Beta-carboline, 6-methoxy-1,2-dimethyl-1,2-Dimethyl-2H-beta-carbolin-6-yl methyl ether
1.0 - 5-HO-Tryptamine (serotonin)
1.3 - 5-HO-DMT N-oxide (Bufotenine N-oxide)
1.6 - 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine)
1.7 - N-Methylserotonin
1.7 - DMT N-oxide (Dimethyltryptamine N-oxide)
1.7 - 5-MeO-NMT (5-Methoxy-N-methyltryptamine)
1.7 - 2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline
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Line = Solubility limit of naptha and heptane
1.8 - NMT (N-Methyltryptamine)
1.9 - 5-MeO-DMT (methoxybufotenin)
2.0 - DMT (Dimethyltryptamine)

NMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and DMT are the only alkaloids that can be extracted with naphtha or heptane. The rest need more polar solvents.
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Here are some XlogP’s of various common SOLVENTS:

MORE POLAR / H2O SOLUBLE
-0.7 - DMSO
-0.5 - Methanol
-0.1 - Ethyl Alcohol
0.2 - Acetone
0.4 - IPA
0.4 - MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone)
0.7 - Ethyl Acetate
0.9 - Ethyl Ether
1.5 - DCM
2.1 - Chloroform
2.5 - Toluene
2.5 - Xylene
3.7 - Limonene
4.3 - Heptane (similar to naphtha)
4.6 - Naptha
LESS POLAR / MORE NON-POLAR


As the solvent gets more non-polar (lower on the list) it extracts less and less alkaloids.
You see how the solvents ethyl ether, DCM and chloroform are in bold? These are the non-polar solvents that will best extract all the alkaloids.
Toluene and xylene, will only usually extract alkaloids with an XlogP of about 1.7 or higher.
Heptane/naphtha will only extract the highly non-polar alkaloids with an XlogP of about 1.8 or higher (5-MeO-DMT, DMT, and NMT).
XlogP calculations are never completely accurate and there are always exceptions to these solubility guides.

Reason for edit:




DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler

 

[Luz]

I sympathize with your plan but I see a flaw in it.
DMT fumarate solution does not evaporate to crystals, it evaporates to more and more sticky unworkable goo. I've been there :lol: I was tempted to try and mix acetone with the goo so well that the DMT fumarate crashed out as microcrystaline powder but I knew my main products would be frustration and a headache from breathing far too much acetone, and in your case it certainly wouldnt fit with the low-toxicity approach you want.
A near equivalent to your proposal would be to do everything as said until you have a water solution of DMT fumarate and perhaps a little excess fumaric acid. Then, instead of evaporating to goo, cook off some water [and all of the residual limonene], cool to room temperature, and adjust the volume to a fixed value. Like 2 tbsp = 1 standard dose, that way you can adjust up or down by a teaspoon or two depending on what you want that time. Then load the solution into a plastic [PETE] bottle and freeze it. When you want some, put the bottle in a bucket of water until all the ice inside has melted and stir it up well before opening and removing your dose and returning the rest to the freezer. This way there is no variation in potency. I did like 24 doses that way and the last dose was just as good as the first one was 4 years earlier.
Any reasonable excess of fumaric acid wont hurt you, small amounts are used in candy.
The solution will smell funny, and will not taste good, but it works and it side-steps the need for isopropanol or acetone [ie. FASI or FASA teks].
If your very sensitive to nasty flavors, I'd say go for the FASI route and get crystal.

I would not say that the evaporate is cystals, but it is a dry powder. Definitely not a goo. My experience is exactly as stated in the original D-Limo tek: a hard crust to scrape up but then a powder. I note I am using FASW, not FASI o FASA. 1 oral dose is 100 mg of the powder, which is 70 DMT and 30 Fumaric acid. I will try freeze preciping it as you suggest, but original teks says this does not work; I think it would just freeze the water.

 

[Elrik]

Oh, I didnt mean a freeze precip, I just meant freezing as a way of preserving a stock solution. If your getting crystals its by no means needed, I'd take DMT fumarate crystals over solution any day.
Now I want to try making DMT hydrogen fumarate, tho :lol:
Others who have titrated to pH 7.0 with FASW have got goos too.