For half my life I have enjoyed the use of phychedellics. It has not always been smooth, there have been some difficult and rocky times. However the good times far outweigh the bad. With that in mind, I think of a time when my young daughter (2) becomes of an age when she is faced with decisions regarding psychedelics use. If she comes to me for advice (hopefully) what will I tell her? I certainly don't want to lie to her like my parents did to me. I don't want her to be set down a path that could possibly limit her potential possibilities. However, I don't want her to miss out on all the joy and excitement that these Entheogens could bring. Surely others here have had thoughts like these. What do you think is a positive approach in respect to guiding loved ones lives with regards to these substances we find so intriguing?
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What to tell your children about DMT
- Thread starter TMK
- Start date
This is such a hard question. Considering, this is a ANOTHER LIFE!
I don't personally have any advice that would or that I feel should meet the standards or worthiness of making such a choice.
Although, I will poke my head back in every few days and see the chatter.
Seems an interesting and intense question.
I don't personally have any advice that would or that I feel should meet the standards or worthiness of making such a choice.
Although, I will poke my head back in every few days and see the chatter.
Seems an interesting and intense question.
As strongly as I believe in the positive force that entheogens can be, the fact of the matter is that they can be misused. I don't have kids yet, but I think that I probably won't support their use of psychedelic drugs, just judged on how overprotective I am of my younger brothers. I would be mad if I found out that they had been doing anything besides pot, to be quite honest. Which isn't fair, I know, I just know what it can lead to (drug problems are HUGE in my family), in the means of a struggle with addiction as well as legal troubles. I don't think drugs are worth spending years in prison for. You can live a perfectly fulfilling life without psychedelics, and just because they have supplemented my life doesn't mean that I wouldn't have had an awesome life without them. Also, they aren't for everyone.
That being said, I won't necessarily prohibit them from it either. Just as my parents have done for me. I won't reprimand them for it, but I won't condone it either. I think getting support from parents regarding drugs from an early age can only spell trouble. As bad as it might sound, I think having fear of being caught with drugs is a healthy fear to have, one that has saved me a LOT of trouble.
That being said, I won't necessarily prohibit them from it either. Just as my parents have done for me. I won't reprimand them for it, but I won't condone it either. I think getting support from parents regarding drugs from an early age can only spell trouble. As bad as it might sound, I think having fear of being caught with drugs is a healthy fear to have, one that has saved me a LOT of trouble.
I think about this occasionally, as I have a 12 and a 4 year old, and I still don't think there is a fool-proof or an absolute way to deal with this for everyone or even every child in the same family.
First, I think that much of the problem with (Americans, at least) developing a healthy attitude about use and abuse stems from the way were are taught about drugs from an early age. We are taught in schools that any and all use is equally bad, which seems to result in abuse and over-indulgence when the first realization that we were lied to sets in, typically with MJ. A reasonable and fact based approach to early drug education should treat MJ and heroin differently, don't you think? We talk at home about how theses substances are not all the same, and they carry different physiological and psychological effects, so my older son knows that hard drugs can kill you immediately or slowly, and that while MJ is illegal, alcohol and tobacco are at least as physically damaging. We discuss the for-profit prison system and the economic engine behind the war on drugs, so he has a truth-based foundation to develop his personal opinions from.
That being said, with kids, I think that keeping our use as parents under wraps is a good idea until our kids are old enough to fully understand the legal and social implications of letting that information get out, like at their school or friend's houses. My 12 yo has known that my husband and I both smoke for a while, but he is not at the age where we discuss much more than that. He is a very intelligent and open minded kid (I am partial, though
), and so far (he is still pretty young) he has not expressed an interest in experimentation himself. When he does, I hope that the message he's received about balance in life from a young age will guide him, along with any advice I can give him about benefits and pitfalls I've experienced through entheogens and more destructive drugs. I have had beautiful, spiritual experiences and suffered the depths of addiction and will share with him what I can.
I would also greatly appreciate the insights of other parents, particularly those with older kids/young adults.
First, I think that much of the problem with (Americans, at least) developing a healthy attitude about use and abuse stems from the way were are taught about drugs from an early age. We are taught in schools that any and all use is equally bad, which seems to result in abuse and over-indulgence when the first realization that we were lied to sets in, typically with MJ. A reasonable and fact based approach to early drug education should treat MJ and heroin differently, don't you think? We talk at home about how theses substances are not all the same, and they carry different physiological and psychological effects, so my older son knows that hard drugs can kill you immediately or slowly, and that while MJ is illegal, alcohol and tobacco are at least as physically damaging. We discuss the for-profit prison system and the economic engine behind the war on drugs, so he has a truth-based foundation to develop his personal opinions from.
That being said, with kids, I think that keeping our use as parents under wraps is a good idea until our kids are old enough to fully understand the legal and social implications of letting that information get out, like at their school or friend's houses. My 12 yo has known that my husband and I both smoke for a while, but he is not at the age where we discuss much more than that. He is a very intelligent and open minded kid (I am partial, though
), and so far (he is still pretty young) he has not expressed an interest in experimentation himself. When he does, I hope that the message he's received about balance in life from a young age will guide him, along with any advice I can give him about benefits and pitfalls I've experienced through entheogens and more destructive drugs. I have had beautiful, spiritual experiences and suffered the depths of addiction and will share with him what I can.I would also greatly appreciate the insights of other parents, particularly those with older kids/young adults.
the truth
primordium
Rising Star
I have a young daughter. There are many factors that militate against a full-disclosure policy, in my opinion.
As others have mentioned, our culture has stigmatized consumption (sacramental or otherwise), which has circumvented a more healthful framing--one that could promote responsible, perhaps religious, use. In addition, your role as a parent is also your role as an exemplar of trustworthy knowledge and conduct; discussing psychedelics can serve as an endorsement of use, thereby increasing your child's exposure to social and legal risks. Those risks may or may not outweigh foreseeable benefits.
For me and my social history, the number of people that appreciate entheogens qua entheogens is low; since my daughter is my daughter, she is likely to find greater benefit than that wider sampling--nonetheless, I believe the odds are stacked against her finding them as fruitful as I have. In other words, I am not prima facie sure that psychedelics will even produce the consequences (e.g., philosophic inquiry, moral self-appraisal, witnessed interconnectedness, etc.) in her that they have for me.
In addition, I hold a more aristocratic than democratic perspective on use (at least until our culture widely inculcates a responsible, if not reverent, management of psychedelics); that is, what to say and to whom is currently very person-relative and dependent upon circumstances. If your child is bright, has a stable psyche, is emotionally open and personally responsibile, then the discussion can be more frank. If not, I would almost assuredly be entirely tight-lipped about the matter.
Overall, I would not openly advocate use. If I spoke at all, it would be about personal use, my reasons, and the scholarship (historical--i.e., religious traditions, scientific, philosophical) surrounding the subject.
Ultimately, I live incredibly conventionally and hope my daughter will, as well (e.g., live within the fold of a prominent religion, attend college and graduate studies, gain a stimulating professional career, etc.). Those goals, if hindered by full disclosure, would necessarily keep me reserved.
As others have mentioned, our culture has stigmatized consumption (sacramental or otherwise), which has circumvented a more healthful framing--one that could promote responsible, perhaps religious, use. In addition, your role as a parent is also your role as an exemplar of trustworthy knowledge and conduct; discussing psychedelics can serve as an endorsement of use, thereby increasing your child's exposure to social and legal risks. Those risks may or may not outweigh foreseeable benefits.
For me and my social history, the number of people that appreciate entheogens qua entheogens is low; since my daughter is my daughter, she is likely to find greater benefit than that wider sampling--nonetheless, I believe the odds are stacked against her finding them as fruitful as I have. In other words, I am not prima facie sure that psychedelics will even produce the consequences (e.g., philosophic inquiry, moral self-appraisal, witnessed interconnectedness, etc.) in her that they have for me.
In addition, I hold a more aristocratic than democratic perspective on use (at least until our culture widely inculcates a responsible, if not reverent, management of psychedelics); that is, what to say and to whom is currently very person-relative and dependent upon circumstances. If your child is bright, has a stable psyche, is emotionally open and personally responsibile, then the discussion can be more frank. If not, I would almost assuredly be entirely tight-lipped about the matter.
Overall, I would not openly advocate use. If I spoke at all, it would be about personal use, my reasons, and the scholarship (historical--i.e., religious traditions, scientific, philosophical) surrounding the subject.
Ultimately, I live incredibly conventionally and hope my daughter will, as well (e.g., live within the fold of a prominent religion, attend college and graduate studies, gain a stimulating professional career, etc.). Those goals, if hindered by full disclosure, would necessarily keep me reserved.
primordium, why not let your daughter grow her own goals naturally instead of projecting your own preferred goals for her? She has to live her own life, not yours 
I just think its particularly odd and unfair that one of the reasons you may not be honest with her about psychedelics is that it may result in her turning her back on the religion you two currently subscribe to :/
I just think its particularly odd and unfair that one of the reasons you may not be honest with her about psychedelics is that it may result in her turning her back on the religion you two currently subscribe to :/
Suburban Tea
Rising Star
universecannon said:
Personally, I would agree that this is your best bet. When the time comes just give your honest opinion and experience.
primordium
Rising Star
universecannon said:why not let your daughter grow her own goals naturally instead of projecting your own preferred goals for her? She has to live her own life, not yours
I do not plan to impose an inflexible pattern, but guidance is needed from a parent (e.g., the gains in salary from a college education are undeniable; religious participation increases mental and physical well-being). My expectations are largely formed from conduct that is empirically proven helpful.
universecannon said:
I am not concerned about her "turning her back on the religion" itself. In fact, I'm incredibly heretical in my beliefs; nevertheless, I find value in the community, its heritage and teachings, and its inward and outward focus on the Transcendent. I do not expect her to be a doctrinaire believer. Let me put it this way: if she turns into a rigid dogmatist of any sort (e.g., scientism), that would increase the likelihood that I recommend psychedelics.
My goal is more broadly her to live conventionally, not necessarily to believe conventionally.
primordium
Rising Star
hug46 said:
I don't believe so.
The first quote, for instance, is multifaceted. There, I was merely providing an inexhaustive list of factors I would consider. I find no contradictions between those factors and the second quote. For instance, if my child is not personally responsible, that's not necessarily being a dogmatist. If she is not unusually intellectual, that's not necessarily being a dogmatist. If she's not psychically stable, that's not necessarily being a dogmatist.
The second quote might be better illustrated with an example; if my daughter were a dogmatist, perhaps being a creation-science Biblical inerrantist with missionary zeal, that would seriously make me reconsider my hesitation to recommend psychedelics (since the psychedelic viewquakes might prove beneficial).
I think if Laura were hypothetically my daughter and she had the aforementioned issues, i may consider the possible curative qualities of psychedelics to maybe help her. If she was very dogmatic i agree that it could possibly open her mind to other possibilities, but i also think there is chance that she may become more entrenched in said dogma andso develop into more of a religious nutter, spouting dogma to all and sundry .
Also, should people who are not bright be discouraged from doing psychedelics? (or have i misunderstood the context?) Or, maybe if they were irresponsible, psychedelics could help them to see things in a different way and perhaps embrace a modicum of responsibility.
But i don"t have children, so i don"t really know for sure whether a natural desire to protect my kids at all costs would come into play. I do think that if i had kids, i would want them to learn about drugs from me, rather than anyone else.
Also, should people who are not bright be discouraged from doing psychedelics? (or have i misunderstood the context?) Or, maybe if they were irresponsible, psychedelics could help them to see things in a different way and perhaps embrace a modicum of responsibility.
But i don"t have children, so i don"t really know for sure whether a natural desire to protect my kids at all costs would come into play. I do think that if i had kids, i would want them to learn about drugs from me, rather than anyone else.
primordium said:
I was raised under strict religion. I grew extreme resentment. I felt like I was lied to and told I'd go to hell if I didn't comply. It all kind of contributed to the person I am today. Some of the good morals rubbed off, a hatred for authority grew.
I wouldn't say it necessarily will guarantee mental and physical well-being, but you do have to do what you feel is right for your child. I do agree.
What I would say to the original question is to not push anything and to not hide anything. Cause that can have an impact when they find out that something you told them isn't true. You also don't want to push anything on them.
My father is on this site. He has done a good job of talking to me about psychedelics. He taught me to respect them and to be careful. Without his guidance I wouldn't have the same respect for them that I do now. He didn't start talking about them till after I stopped using opiate which was good too. around when I was 20 we started talking about these things.
ntwhtyouknw
You do not have to see alike, feel alike or even t
I dont have kids, but personally, i would tell them nothing until they asked me. Then Inwould tell them what UniverseCan said......tha truth..
primordium
Rising Star
hostilis said:
It's great to see a true account of this being successfully done. :thumb_up:
primordium
Rising Star
hug46 said:
Can't argue with that.
Plus, once my child starts seriously checking out my library, I am sure she will begin piecing together the puzzle.
just curious, what religion are you primordium?
Funny anecdote I just thought of while floating in the bathtub...
When I was in 6th grade, I think, I was studying for a science test that covered the actions of different drug classes. My mom was helping me prepare, and I distinctly remember asking her when we got the psychedelics why anyone would take something that turned trees into monsters. Her reply? "Maybe it also turns monsters into trees." :surprised That one comment has stuck with me for 20+ years and completely changed my view of substance use in a second. Did it change my life trajectory- who knows?
Moral of the story- no matter what you decide is right for you and your child, it's best to think it through rather than letting a careless comment do your talking.
When I was in 6th grade, I think, I was studying for a science test that covered the actions of different drug classes. My mom was helping me prepare, and I distinctly remember asking her when we got the psychedelics why anyone would take something that turned trees into monsters. Her reply? "Maybe it also turns monsters into trees." :surprised That one comment has stuck with me for 20+ years and completely changed my view of substance use in a second. Did it change my life trajectory- who knows?
Moral of the story- no matter what you decide is right for you and your child, it's best to think it through rather than letting a careless comment do your talking.
Its really hard to say. My parents did a lot of LSD during the sixties but never really talked to me about it growing up, and I ended up doing a lot of LSD during my college years. Like parents, like son? I probably did misuse LSD quite a bit. I don't know if I would have done things differently if my parents had talked to me about it. I think people have to figure things out on their own, especially psychedelics.
I have a young son. I don't plan on proactively letting him know I'm into psychedelics. Mainly because its not really considered appropriate in our cultural climate. If he comes to me when he's older with questions I would answer them as honestly and truthfully as possible. He'll most likely be drawn to them as I have and my parents before me.
I have a young son. I don't plan on proactively letting him know I'm into psychedelics. Mainly because its not really considered appropriate in our cultural climate. If he comes to me when he's older with questions I would answer them as honestly and truthfully as possible. He'll most likely be drawn to them as I have and my parents before me.
Its just too big a part of my life to ever be able to nor want to hide it from my children (when i have them). I'm not going to shield it from them just because our insane society would want me to.
"its no measure of intelligence to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
When they're ready, I'll spill the beans and explain what i do. The only logical reason not to would be because, if they are too young, they might accidentally mention it to the wrong person- leading to bad repercussions for me. But that won't really be a problem since i'm not letting them go to the BS they call elementary "school" these days. I was always against homeschooling but after seeing how much a joke the education system has become- how it stifles creativity and open mindedness and critical thinking skills, etc, etc- i dont see a problem with homeschooling if its done right and they have other children to play with everyday..and you dont need a school to do that
Look at how other shamanic cultures handle this.. Children often actually attend the psychedelic ceremonies to watch. In some cases they even participate.. its not uncommon to see young people drink ayahuasca, but that's a whole other topic so i wont go there
in 6th grade you learned about this? :surprised
sign me up for that school
"its no measure of intelligence to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"
When they're ready, I'll spill the beans and explain what i do. The only logical reason not to would be because, if they are too young, they might accidentally mention it to the wrong person- leading to bad repercussions for me. But that won't really be a problem since i'm not letting them go to the BS they call elementary "school" these days. I was always against homeschooling but after seeing how much a joke the education system has become- how it stifles creativity and open mindedness and critical thinking skills, etc, etc- i dont see a problem with homeschooling if its done right and they have other children to play with everyday..and you dont need a school to do that
Look at how other shamanic cultures handle this.. Children often actually attend the psychedelic ceremonies to watch. In some cases they even participate.. its not uncommon to see young people drink ayahuasca, but that's a whole other topic so i wont go there
Continuum said:
in 6th grade you learned about this? :surprised
sign me up for that school
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