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what would be for you the perfect brew?

Migrated topic.
I don't think it is there. After smoking chaliponga extracts a number of times, and then experimenting with pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, I just don't think there is enough in chaliponga to be relevant, if there at all.

It is different from mimosa DMT for me, definitely. Why, I don't know. I can see why people assume the difference in effect means it is the 5-MeO-DMT working, but after working with MeO I have resigned all ideas about what is going on with that plant.

I just know that I prefer it. It is very warm and euphoric.
 
Medical Toxicology of Drug Abuse: Synthesized Chemicals and Psychoactive Plants
By Donald G. Barceloux

page 776 claims 5-meo-DMT is present in chaliponga

books.google.com

Medical Toxicology of Drug Abuse

This book provides a broad reference covering important drugs of abuse including amphetamines, opiates, and steroids. It also covers psychoactive plants such as caffeine, peyote, and psilocybin. It provides chemical structures, analytical methods, clinical features, and treatments of these drugs...
books.google.com

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Genus: Diplopterys
Species: cabrerana
Natives of western Amazon add DMT- and N-methyltryptamine containing leaves of the vine D. cabrerana to a drink made from Banisteriopsis caapi, which contains beta-carbolines harmine and harmaline, to heighten and lengthen the visions (Schultes 1977, Smith 1977). D. cabrerana is also known as Banisteriopsis rusbyana.

This site leaves it out...

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Wikipedia didn't leave any leads as to where they obtained the positive 5-meo-DMT test in diplopterys cabrerana...but claims it is for sure present

I want to see the chromatograph results from various chaliponga samples...

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It actually seems there's still much confusion and debate here, and that resolution to the debate has never been reached...

The nexus says they got a negative result, and I trust that.

I wish I could review these other tests and their results, I can't find the documentation for tests finding the 5-meo-DMT , but some reliable sources are claiming it is in fact there...(Though they are not providing where this information came from)

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This could be solved provided someone was willing to obtain several samples from several sources, possibly even cultivating their own samples and deriving other samples from the field, then doing every type of chromatography and analytical tests that are possible...if I had the resources I would do it....

-eg
 
jamie said:
I much prefer chaliponga to chacruna. I don't think there is any inherent danger in it over using psychotria, aside from the increased potency. It's a warmer more fuzzy experience for me. I never really got on well with chacruna. It either did nothing or made me feel pretty sick.
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Ditto. Chaliponga seems to be ~10x as potent as chacruna, as far as the amount needed for a dose, at least ime. And that warm fuzzy experience, it def produces a unique feeling

But I'm not giving up on chacruna, I have some growing, they'll be nice and big this year after such a mild winter
 
BundleflowerPower said:
jamie said:
I much prefer chaliponga to chacruna. I don't think there is any inherent danger in it over using psychotria, aside from the increased potency. It's a warmer more fuzzy experience for me. I never really got on well with chacruna. It either did nothing or made me feel pretty sick.
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Ditto. Chaliponga seems to be ~10x as potent as chacruna, as far as the amount needed for a dose, at least ime. And that warm fuzzy experience, it def produces a unique feeling
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5-meo-DMT could account for the added potency.

When reviewing DMT levels found in chaliponga, they do seem higher than other sources, but this same source also claims to have found 5-meo-dmt in chaliponga...

Acacia maidenii: DMT in bark at 0.36%; 5-MeO-DMT in trace amounts

Acacia obtusifolia (= A. intertexta): DMT in bark at 0.1–0.7%; 5-MeO-DMT possibly present in trace amounts

Acacia phlebophylla: DMT leaf at 0.3%

Acacia simplicifolia: DMT in bark at 0.81%

Anadenanthera peregrina: DMT in immature seeds at 0.16%; 5-MeO-DMT in roots 0.678%

Desmanthus illinoensis: DMT in root-bark at 0.34%

Diplopterys cabreana: DMT in leaf at 1.46%; 5-MeO-DMT in leaf and dried stem in trace amounts

Meliocope leptococca (= Evodia leptococca): 5-MeO-DMT in aerial parts 0.21%

Mimosa tenuiflora (= M. hostilis): DMT in root-bark at 0.31–11%

Phalaris aquatica: 5-MeO-DMT in leaf at 0.01–0.28%

Phalaris aquatica cv. AQ-1: DMT at 1+%; 5-MeO-DMT in trace amounts

Phalaris arundinacea P.I. 172442 Turkey (cv. Turkey Red): 5-MeO-DMT in leaf is the predominant alkaloid from a total wet weight alkaloid range of 0.0025–0.045%

Pilocarpus organensis: 5-MeO-DMT in leaf at 0.41% (Caution: Shulgin & Shulgin 1997 and Ott 1994 both pointed out that other species of Pilocarpus are known to contain the poisonous cholinergic chemical pilocarpine.)

Psychotria carthaginensis: DMT in leaf 0.0–0.65%

Psychotria viridis: DMT in leaf 0.1–0.34%

Virola calophylla: DMT in leaf at 0.15%; 5-MeO-DMT in bark at trace amounts

Virola rufula: DMT in bark at 0.19%; 5-MeO-DMT in bark at trace amounts

Virola theiodora: DMT in bark at 0.003–0.25%; DMT in flowering shoots at 0.44%; 5-MeO-DMT in bark at 0.11%

http://www.dmtsite.com/dmt/information/sources.html
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I think it's there, but we don't yet have enough tested samples to say one way or the other...

I'm trying to dig up the research team and their test results which yeilded positive 5-meo-DMT tests in diplopterys cabrerana, and was used by various sources..


We need a wide variety samples tested.

-eg
 
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
well, i think its time that we all clear some concepts. ive been calling other mixtures as analogues to facilitate comunication, but truth is sirian rue+acacia has an history and energy of its own, and some people call it somakecia (not sure if its the right spelling, just writing as i heard it)
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I refer to it as Haoma -
soma is a word that can be used similarly
 
LibertyforAll said:
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
well, i think its time that we all clear some concepts. ive been calling other mixtures as analogues to facilitate comunication, but truth is sirian rue+acacia has an history and energy of its own, and some people call it somakecia (not sure if its the right spelling, just writing as i heard it)
Click to expand...

I refer to it as Haoma -
soma is a word that can be used similarly
Click to expand...

I have heard peganum harmala seed and acacia confusa root bark brews called "Formosa-huasca" "acacia-huasca" , "confusa-huasca" even "China-huasca" which is a bit of a misnomer, as the acacia species is common over a wide area of south east Asia, and have become prevalent on Pacific islands such as Hawaii.

PHS are my main source for "force"
And ACRB is my main source of "light"

...I've grown quite fond of this brew, and have been using it almost exclusively.

I love caapi, but 50+ grams for a single dose brew? Caapi also requires a more vigorous and drawn out boil, as opposed to PHS...

Though caapi, particularly red caapi, has always been a favorite of mine.

(I'm not entirely convinced that there wasn't an ancient form of ayahuasca used in the middle east, north Africa, and India, they had peganum harmala seeds which were seen as sacred, they also had access to several DMT containing plants, particularly acacia trees, which were also regarded as sacred, acacia nilotica contains DMT and is common in the region...also I've been digging up evidence regarding stropharia cubensis mushrooms in that region, I found evidence suggesting their use would have been fairly common and regarded entheogeniclly...I've also speculated that perhaps peganum harmala seed smoke was inhaled off of hot-stones while on the mushroom, like an ancient middle eastern version of what terence mckenna dubbed "vegetable television"...or perhaps PHS were brewed into a tea with the mushroom, or a DMT containing acacia...
(I know this all sounds ill-thought, but trust me, I've been collecting good evidence, I just have yet to organize it and compile into a decent case confirming my suspicions, within the next few years I'll have an organized and concrete case.)

-eg
 
well, the preparing of the medicine is finished.

part of the leaf had to be excluded, i used 2 big pans and didnt had enough space for everything.
this is the final result in the pictures. the color of the caupiri caapi prevailed, golden opaque.
 

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jamie said:
I don't think it is there. After smoking chaliponga extracts a number of times, and then experimenting with pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT, I just don't think there is enough in chaliponga to be relevant, if there at all.

It is different from mimosa DMT for me, definitely. Why, I don't know. I can see why people assume the difference in effect means it is the 5-MeO-DMT working, but after working with MeO I have resigned all ideas about what is going on with that plant.

I just know that I prefer it. It is very warm and euphoric.
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agreed. but i feel its not because of 5-meo. i feel the chacruna extract is really close in energy and personality to chali, at least they are closer to each other than they are to jurema, and chacruna has no 5-meo. the diference, in my opinion, comes from the personality of the plants, both are more organic with natural metaphores, the forest and the plants. jurema on other hand is more geometrical, with a more alien, and cristaline metaphore.
 
An old ACRB/PHS/THE brew...

Good amount of sediment, which I just shake the bottle before I pour the doses...

Some remove the sediment...in my case this is not poor filtering, the brew was filtered many times before storage, so any sediment that forms stays...some say it causes nausea, I think removal of it removes potency...

-eg
 

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In TIHKAL page 276 2nd paragraph Alexander shulgin claim a diplopterys cabrerana produces 5-methoxy-DMT, 4-hydroxy-DMT as well as DMT...

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The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Pharmacology, Volume 32 page 48 claims diplopterys Cabrera produces 5-methoxy-DMT as well as 5-hydroxy-DMT...

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Tryptamine palace claims: " Diplopterys cabreana: DMT in leaf at 1.46%; 5-MeO-DMT in leaf and dried stem in trace amounts"

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Wikipedia's diploprerys cabrerana page claims 5-methoxy-DMT is present.
en.wikipedia.org

Diplopterys cabrerana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

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Deoxy lists chaliponga as a 5-meo-DMT carrier....

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Basic Principles of Forensic Chemistry
By JaVed I. Khan, Thomas J. Kennedy, Donnell R. Christian, Jr.
Page 196
Lists diplopterys cabrerana as containing 5-meo-DMT

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Diplopterys cabrerana
Not found by Mckenna 1984, who only found DMT and traces of bufotenine

Not found by Endlessness who only found major DMT peak (small peaks in process of identification but are NOT 5-MeO-DMT).

0.4655% DMT, co-occuring with traces of NMT, Bufotenine and MTHBC (Agurell et al. 1968) ( misidentified as Banisteriopsis rusbyana see Gates 1982)

0.16638% DMT, 0.0035% MTHBC and 0.0035% 5-MeO-DMT in dried stem (Agurell et al. 1968) ( misidentified as Banisteriopsis rusbyana see Gates 1982)

This is from DMT-nexus wiki...

...

Though Banisteriopsis rusbyana in the old literature was a synonym for diplopterys Cabrerana, or at least that's how these botanists were using it, it may have been a misnomer but it was not a misidentification...

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It's unfair to say it's not there...

I'm of the opinion that under certain circumstances the plant produces 5-meo-DMT...

But honestly, it's up for debate...

We must Gather a large number of samples from a large number of sources, and GC/MS or preform other chromatography techniques on them...

The key is obtaining a wide variety of samples, grown in different conditions, from different places, etc...and testing them all...

I feel it's there, or at least that it can be there...

But it's all up for debate until some more conclusive evidence is obtained...

-eg
 
so i havent had much time to come to the nexus, but im finishing now the purpose of this topic

from the experience i had preparing this medicine, with these kind of ingredients (dried and bought from a website vendor), i think for this brew to have the right strenght/consistency it yould be necessary at least 8kg of good vine, and at least 5kg of leaf. i defenitly got fond of chali, and i think in this situation, its really more worth using at least 50% chali, 50% chacruna, or even more chali then chacruna. in the end, my conclusion is that for doing a good liter of medicine for cerimonial purposes, its really expensive to make the medicine yourself, buying the materials from online vendors.
 
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
i think for this brew to have the right strenght/consistency it yould be necessary at least 8kg of good vine, and at least 5kg of leaf.
Click to expand...

Really?

What then is your goal? What is your technique, and quality of ingredients?
 
the goal was to make a liter of mel like ayahuasca to use in cerimonies, with healing purposes.
in fact, the thing is that i could get this type of medicin (mel) from brasil, for a decent price, but thats allways a pain in the ass because of costums and alfandegary service, and all the time it takes to arrive here. (besides the risk)
so i decided to make an experience, invest the same amount of money in dried materials from online vendors, and make it myself.

so, that answers for the purpose and the quality of ingredients, that is obviously inferior to fresh ingredients prepared directly in the jungle, and its also a gamble, you never really know what you getting..

the technique was quite tradicional but in small scale, a hole dug in the ground to make a furnace, lots of wood to keep a big, constant fire, 3 big pans, the vine was smashed until it was all shredded, we took some medicine to be connected, chanted and prayed, we used fountain water and cooked the content of the 3 pans 4 times, 4 hours each. we then reduced all the brew to about 10 liters, filtered, and reduced further, this time on a eletric stove, until there was a bit more than a liter. the final result is the pic above.

and it gave a wonderfull medicine, but we had to drink a lot to get a real transformative and intense experience, and it didnt last much... while with the mel medicine, it would be necessary only 30ml per cup, this one gave good results around 80-100ml per cup. 6 people ended with this medicine in one night session, and thats really expensive.
 
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
the goal was to make a liter of mel like ayahuasca to use in cerimonies, with healing purposes.
Click to expand...

Because it would require more vine and leaf to make a litre of 'mel', it costs more to produce.

However, with 1-2 kilos good dried vine and 150-200 grams Chali, you should in theory have enough for a good litre with 20X 50ml servings. Did you do a single pot brew, or use 3x3 method?

You seem to have used a lot of materials to make a moderate brew.
 
i used almost 4kg of vine, and 2,5 kg of leaves, 3 pots, 4 boils of 3-4hours each.

yes, in fact i was expecting more from a brew with all these materials
 
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
i used almost 4kg of vine, and 2,5 kg of leaves, 3 pots, 4 boils of 3-4hours each.

yes, in fact i was expecting more from a brew with all these materials
Click to expand...

Was the vine whole, and properly bashed?
 
yes, big chunks of vine, the caupiri variety has some big knots, really hard to break. we took almost an entire afternoon to break it all in very small pieces
 
MultiDimensionalTherapy said:
yes, big chunks of vine, the caupiri variety has some big knots, really hard to break. we took almost an entire afternoon to break it all in very small pieces
Click to expand...

Probably the worse kind of Caapi to use dried, because of that factor.

Though i bet it bashes down easily when fresh. I have read that some people leave their dried Caapi to soak in water 24 hours to replicate that 'freshness', to help it bash easier. (It must be very finely bashed to extract properly, because hot water doesn't penetrate the tight fibres.)
 
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