When did DMT Plants & Trees first appear on earth?

[yopoagogo]

Plants started 360 million years ago...

So, does that mean the aliens knew 360 million years ago that humans would reach a state of crisis in the evolution of consciousness and therfor ship a load of DMT plant microbes as a failsafe?:d


Referance:

Panspermia - Invented by Francis Crick (Discoverer of DNA)

Panspermia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Determinism

Definition of DETERMINISM

a theory or doctrine that acts of the will, occurrences in nature, or social or psychological phenomena are causally determined by preceding events or natural laws; a belief in predestination; the quality or state of being determined… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

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Reply to the posters:

You all are thinking very rigidly inside of a box about all of this...

I want you to think broadly about philosophical reasons as to the nature of your circumstance as a primate animal revolving around one sun of 300 billion in a galaxy of vast multitudes.

The message I am trying to get across is inuitive THE LIKILIHOOD of some apparant cause to be true or not.

For instance, most of you (even despite your multiple psychedelic experiences) are still operating under the premise of physicalism which is what is handed out to every western high school student(Worldwide Brainwashing). Physicallism is thus:

-There REALLY IS a physical reality OUT THERE and it's not just sense data in your brain.
-You REALLY ARE are one among billions of humans and not just one individual in a simulation imitating similar beings to yourself, (Matrix).
-You REALLY ARE actually in a place called "earth" in something called "the universe" which is a stable construction of space and time. You therefor are not actually in a multidimensional continuem where space and time merge into unfathomable constitutions just as a single dot merges into a straight line or atoms into material.
-It is most probably false that those "multidimensional unfathomable constitutions" have any impact in the meaning and purpose of your experience at every moment.

Let me remind you that there is no more evidence for Physicallism than there is for Dualism, Idealism, Atheism or even Solipsism. It entirely dependant on what you FEEL is intuitively a valid notion of whatever you experience.

The implications of your a circumstance here on earth seems to infer or rather imply intelligence to its construction of how it is the way it is (if there were no intelligence to all of this and there was nothing but chance in the universe, we would just be some inanimate piece of dust because the current entire construct of reality revolves around ORDER. Geometrical Order, Physical Order, Mathematical order and that order is a constitution of intelligence.

Therefor, forfeit your reductionist notions of blind evolutionism (evolution that serves no teleological purpose, that it is just to spread stupid microbes all over planets that turn into retarded thinking machines).

I really thought DMT was going to open a lot of people up to these sorts of things but from the looks of your replies it may just be another "recreational state" that gives the illusion of opening your mind up to wild interperations of reality.

Reference:
What is the probability of Multi-Dimensional Entities?

What is the probability of Multi-Dimensional Entities?

Supposing M-theory to be accurate, in your opinion what could be the probability of a form of consciousness (conceivable by the human mind or to the contrary) existing in any higher or lower dimensions. Alongside the thought of them taking a human form such as that seen in MIB 3

www.physicsforums.com

 

[endlessness]

Why suppose DMT is made for us? Very anthropocentric, no?

 

[steppa]

Why suppose DMT is made for us?

As it's stucture fits like a key to our lock it's easy and convient to think that it was made for it.

 

[endlessness]

A lot of substances fit our ' locks' , including poisonous substances, or non-psychedelic substances. Were these made for us too? Why focus on DMT and not in the trillions of other substances in nature? What about the fact they also fit different animals' locks? Why suppose DMT was made for us but not for rats?

 

[steppa]

A lot of substances fit our ' locks' , including poisonous substances, or non-psychedelic substances. Were these made for us too?

Why are you asking me this?

I didn't say that any substance was "made" for us.

I don't belive that anything was "made" for us. I belive in evolution.

 

[endlessness]

I ask you because thats what the topic was about and you posted a possible explanation of why the OP thinks that way, right? Not saying thats what you believe or not, but just continuing the conversation, trying to see if the logic holds up by asking questions that can potentially show weak spots (or confirm it is a good theory).. Nothing personal

 

[steppa]

I ask you because thats what the topic was about and you posted a possible explanation of why the OP thinks that way, right? .. Nothing personal

I see.

I think it was the

Were these made for us too?

that got me.

But now another question raises in me.

Do we know why the plants have DMT in them? What do they use it for?

 

[Icon]

Well, mimosas are legumes which are prehistoric plants... so they've been around a loong time. Mimosas are also pioneer plants, able to germinate in new ground before most other life forms, paving the way for other plants and eventually animals. So DMT has likely been here since nearly the beginning (of plant life)' I'm sure there were some long eras of bacteria and fungi. I doubt their purpose is so specific to any one lifeform. There's a rumor that dmt is in ALL plants and life. I guess that would be hard to prove, but it is interesting how widespread it is. No idea as to its true purpose.

 

[Aeracura222]

It's only an estimate of when plants first appeared on earth, we can only estimate how old the earth was, or when the big bang happened -- if you believe in that theory (key word)

I like to believe that perhaps DMT is a reflection of our Divine Self, that everything on this planet reflects us, and that everything is a reflection of our inner nature being expressed....

The fact that we are hard wired for DMT, and that our brains actually produce it, allowing us to enter a dream state, is amazing in it's own right.

 

[endlessness]

our brains actually produce it, allowing us to enter a dream state

This is a theory, not proven. Here's a relevant thread: Endogenous DMT: Facts and Fiction - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Steppa, as for why does DMT or other secondary metabolites exist in plants, I really dont know.. They could have several functions, including protection against parasites and so on.. But im not qualified to answer that question. I'd rather ask Infundibulum or Benzyme, they could give you better answers.

 

[universecannon]

Made for us? no...

Kikker? Possibly

 

[Majakal]

I feel like the reason that our biology is so suited for dmt and other related neurotransmitters is because we encountered them very early on in our evolutionary path as a species, or rather, our subspecies predecessors. This, to me, makes more sense than the molecules being designed for us. It is very possible that our brains have built around this molecule, instead of the other way around.
As far as how old dmt containing plants are goes, (great question btw) im not sure. But id be willing to bet its been around for a VERY long time, given how many different kingdoms and species this molecule is found in.

 

[Icon]

our brains actually produce it, allowing us to enter a dream state

This is a theory, not proven. Here's a relevant thread: Endogenous DMT: Facts and Fiction - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

They've found it produced endogenously in rat pineals.

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Sure, it's just a mammal, but I think there's enough evidence to believe in the theory that humans produce it as well.
Unless you mean the connection to dream states which is more unproven, but still reasonable with the melatonin association mentioned in your thread.

I feel like the reason that our biology is so suited for dmt and other related neurotransmitters is because we encountered them very early on in our evolutionary path as a species, or rather, our subspecies predecessors. This, to me, makes more sense than the molecules being designed for us. It is very possible that our brains have built around this molecule, instead of the other way around.
As far as how old dmt containing plants are goes, (great question btw) im not sure. But id be willing to bet its been around for a VERY long time, given how many different kingdoms and species this molecule is found in.

Definitely. The plants and DMT have been around longer than known hominids. The pineal is pretty much the oldest, most central, original gland our brains started with. If it is being produced there then we likely adopted it into our evolution very early, along with other life.

 

[dreamer042]

DMT is most assuredly present in human metabolism.

Is it produced by the pineal? Yeah, it probably is, although there is not enough evidence to draw a final conclusion yet.

Is it involved in the sleep cycle? Yeah, it probably plays some some small role in that as well, but again the actual evidence is lacking.

Is it responsible for dreaming? That is pretty unlikely, it is only one in a plethora of tryptamine and beta-carboline compounds that are synthesized endogenously and it's much more likely that a variety of tryptamines, beta-caroblines, and other classes of neurotransmitters (acetylcholine and norepinephrine anyone?) are involved in the dreaming process.

Tryptamine neurotransmitters are ancient compounds dating all the way back to unicellular organisms. The ubiquitous presence of DMT/Bufotenine/Serotonin/Melatonin isn't all that surprising, this is simply a form of cellular communication.

There is evidence that beta-carbolines serve functions related to plant-insect communication. So would it be too much of a stretch to consider that these various indole compounds may serve as some sort of biological "messenger molecules" at all levels of the biosphere?

 

[roninsina]

"There is evidence that beta-carbolines serve functions related to plant-insect communication. So would it be too much of a stretch to consider that these various indole compounds may serve as some sort of biological "messenger molecules" at all levels of the biosphere?"
[/quote]

Thank you. I have been hoping to see this intuitive line of thinking, being presented by a respected member.

 

[endlessness]

Just to note, I'm not saying anything is or isn't, I'm just trying to warn people against spreading unproven speculation (even if there's preliminary indications of) as if its already proven truth. And yes, I was mostly talking about the dream-dmt theory.. I think before jumping to conclusions and giving statements, its very important to ask questions and recognize limitations of our knowledge.

Thank you very much dreamer for a very reasonable way to bring the data and be honest about what is known and isn't This is certainly a fascinating subject!

 

[cave paintings]

I thought I read somewhere that certain alkaloids like DMT didn't appear in plants until the flowering plants emerged? I could be wrong; I'm trying to think of DMT gymnosperms?
And very nice post Dreamer, I think your thoughts on the matter are on point

 

[steppa]

Tryptamine neurotransmitters are ancient compounds dating all the way back to unicellular organisms. The ubiquitous presence of DMT/Bufotenine/Serotonin/Melatonin isn't all that surprising, this is simply a form of cellular communication.

That's interesting. Thanks.

Also interesting is the next paragraph:

Several plants contain serotonin together with a family of related tryptamines that are methylated at the amino (NH2) and (OH) groups, are N-oxides, or miss the OH group. These compounds do reach the brain, although some portion of them are metabolized by monoamine oxidase enzymes (mainly MAO-A) in the liver. Examples are plants from the Anadenanthera genus that are used in the hallucinogenic yopo snuff. These compounds are widely present in the leaves of many plants, and may serve as deterrents for animal ingestion.

 

[hadoq]

why not just "accept" rather than "try to make sense of it all"?

I mean, was it "made for us" or not?
the point is, to me, that it is there in the first place. We will never know if anything was "made for us", we interact with our environment, our planets in many, many, many ways. DMT molecule is one of them, so is rock climbing or swimming or talking, breathing, whatever.

It's good to reflect, study and try to understand the world around. But I believe there are many, many, many steps before one could affirm or even present the question that "was this made for us?"

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, we'll most likely never know the answer. But I sure believe that it's cool that it's there for us ("cool" being a huge understatement here, of course)

There is, obviously, a link between all living things and organisms here on earth. Maybe we were made for DMT (the other way around)

maybe the "aliens" thought "hey, that DMT thing looks cool, let's make an animal that would be blown away by smoking it, and see how that turns out!"

I don't believe we have that "special place" in the universe, maybe we do, but I don't really think so. We're self conscious and we have that ego thing going on, and love and all, but we're basically animals, barely more evolved than the other animals around.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Its interesting to speculate DMT may have once been a dominant neurotransmitter (or a chemical messenger) and over time serotonin has been shaped by evolution to be the primary neurotransmitter for our 5HT receptors that provides a lense in which we experience reality. This could also be applied to cannibinoids and their affinity for cannabinoid receptors.
We share an ancient ancestor with plants so its not unreasonable to speculate that DMT, being such a basic molecule was present within this ancestor and that when our evolutionary paths split we both retained the ability to produce, utilize and process DMT.
Or maybe we had one of DMTs' precursors in common? INMT? Or back further still, the INMT gene.

Taking this even further could DMT (and other neurotransmitters, hormones, histamines etc) be universal and prevalent throughout the universe? Or at least in habitable zones, different species could have the neurotransmitters in differing ratios and would no doubt experience reality differently. This leaves the possibility open that some species may experience DMT at certain amounts in a similar way.