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When I Grow Up I Wanna Be A Psychonaut

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Hello everyone,
I just recently came full-circle in life, in the form of a serotonin-induced ibogaine trip. I've had some hard knocks in life, like pretty much everyone, so I began looking for ways to escape early on. During my high school years, I had acquired injuries, and I discovered I had a weakness for opiates. So at the tender age of 18 I became a heroin addict. This lasted for 5 years. I eventually kicked the habit, but went back on pain management. And so for 11 years I took methadone and neurontin every day. Before going to the ibogaine treatment, I tried everything to switch to a short acting opiate, but I don't need to tell you all how bad it looks for a chronic pain patient to request you switch their methadone to morphine.
They told me where I could stick it. Who'd have thought I'd listen. I went cold turkey for 28 days before going to the ibogaine center. To this day I don't know what possessed me, nor enabled me, to stop methadone knowing I had people willing to provide it. What I do know...I feel like having a bumper sticker made "I Quit Methadone Cold Turkey", if that doesn't belong next to "My Kid's an Honor Roll Student" then there's something wrong in the world.
I say I came full circle, because I had previously experienced a serotonin related hallucinatory experience when I was 14. I'll spare the details, but suffice to say I overdosed on welbutrin, and went into full-blown auditory, tactile, and visual hallucinations for a few hours. On my most recent trip, for a few hours I was able to relive what I can only describe as terror without origin, and I was supremely overjoyed at my ability to successfully traverse a difficult but overall immensely positive experience. The majority of the ibogaine experience was very pleasante, euphoric even, but there was ~2 hours (who am I to pretend I can keep track of time on ibogaine) where I experienced a relentless onslaught of pure hell. I am currently 13 days post flood-dose. I was initially scheduled to take 1.65 grams of Ibogaine HCl, but ended up taking an extra pill just to be safe, for a total of 2.15 grams. I am a large man 6'4" & 350lbs, and feel the last pill was critical to the overall experience.

As for my previous experiences with hallucinogens; I have enjoyed psilocybin or MDMA a good deal, and have dabbled in some of the early research chemicals, and on occasion; LSD, Ketamine, and salvia. Right now I have plans to explore Ayahuasca or other forms of DMT, as well as Kambo & Ketamine for depression. The Kambo and Ketamine are for the depression, the DMT would be for shooting into outer space. But if it helps with the depression, that would be an added bonus.

I am very much so looking forward to learning more about DMT in particular, and meeting interesting and unique people at the DMT-Nexus.


Sensimilla, Aesop_Dottz
 
:) Well thank God you never got hooked on the fentanyl and congrats for kicking the opiates for good.:thumb_up:

Always good to take some of the tip karmic pressure build off by starting a small (legal) entheogenic garden and try to feel & connect with these living teachers...and the soil....the meaning of growing up is this...(response-ability we think)

edit: we found that a mixture of oral rue, almonds and cbd rich cannabis trim (green haoma) and dancing with pure bird helpful in our own chronic pain management.
 
Aesop_Dottz said:
Hello everyone,
I just recently came full-circle in life, in the form of a serotonin-induced ibogaine trip. I've had some hard knocks in life, like pretty much everyone, so I began looking for ways to escape early on. During my high school years, I had acquired injuries, and I discovered I had a weakness for opiates. So at the tender age of 18 I became a heroin addict. This lasted for 5 years. I eventually kicked the habit, but went back on pain management. And so for 11 years I took methadone and neurontin every day. Before going to the ibogaine treatment, I tried everything to switch to a short acting opiate, but I don't need to tell you all how bad it looks for a chronic pain patient to request you switch their methadone to morphine.
They told me where I could stick it. Who'd have thought I'd listen. I went cold turkey for 28 days before going to the ibogaine center. To this day I don't know what possessed me, nor enabled me, to stop methadone knowing I had people willing to provide it. What I do know...I feel like having a bumper sticker made "I Quit Methadone Cold Turkey", if that doesn't belong next to "My Kid's an Honor Roll Student" then there's something wrong in the world.
I say I came full circle, because I had previously experienced a serotonin related hallucinatory experience when I was 14. I'll spare the details, but suffice to say I overdosed on welbutrin, and went into full-blown auditory, tactile, and visual hallucinations for a few hours. On my most recent trip, for a few hours I was able to relive what I can only describe as terror without origin, and I was supremely overjoyed at my ability to successfully traverse a difficult but overall immensely positive experience. The majority of the ibogaine experience was very pleasante, euphoric even, but there was ~2 hours (who am I to pretend I can keep track of time on ibogaine) where I experienced a relentless onslaught of pure hell. I am currently 13 days post flood-dose. I was initially scheduled to take 1.65 grams of Ibogaine HCl, but ended up taking an extra pill just to be safe, for a total of 2.15 grams. I am a large man 6'4" & 350lbs, and feel the last pill was critical to the overall experience.

As for my previous experiences with hallucinogens; I have enjoyed psilocybin or MDMA a good deal, and have dabbled in some of the early research chemicals, and on occasion; LSD, Ketamine, and salvia. Right now I have plans to explore Ayahuasca or other forms of DMT, as well as Kambo & Ketamine for depression. The Kambo and Ketamine are for the depression, the DMT would be for shooting into outer space. But if it helps with the depression, that would be an added bonus.

I am very much so looking forward to learning more about DMT in particular, and meeting interesting and unique people at the DMT-Nexus.


Sensimilla, Aesop_Dottz

I'm very interested in iboga treatment for opioid compounds, particularly synthetic opioid with an extended withdrawal period such as methadone. I'm not interested in a "cure" or diminishing future cravings, my interest is in disruption of dependence and withdrawal maintenance.


Receptor Ibogaine Noribogaine
κ-opioid 2.2 0.61
μ-opioid 2.0 0.68
δ-opioid >10 5.2
NMDA 3.1 15
5-HT2A 16 >100
5-HT2C >10 >10
5-HT3 2.6 >100
σ1 2.5 11
σ2 0.4 19
-Wikipedia

As far as withdrawal management goes, ibogaine does look promising, it's mild agonism at opioid receptor sites, particularly the Mu opioid receptor, should greatly aide in withdrawal symptoms.

I'm also guessing the serotonin receptor agonism would be great for the habit breaking part, I feel all psychedelics can aide in ending compulsive destructive behaviors, simply by the perspective change they offer through 5HT2A/5HT2c receptor agonism.

I know you said you were comming off of diacetylmorphine, which carries a different withdrawal from a compound such as methadone.
(Methadone builds up over a three day period in the system, it sits in the soft tissue, and takes a good deal of time to metabolize. The withdrawal takes 3 days to fully begin, and can last month's, I've talked to methadone patients who were unable to sleep properly for up to 5 months after stopping, of coarse you have the option to taper down, but even this option comes with a huge deal of discomfort, and the recidivism rates for methadone clinics are astronomical, which is why I have much interest in ibogaine. )
But I'm still very interested in hearing what others who have gone through ibogaine treatment have to say about it.

I've also been looking into voacangine, the structure of voacangine is identical to ibogaine, only differing by a carbomethoxy substitution. (I know small substitutions can make a big difference, but as the excerpt below details, it may also have anti-addictive properties)

Voacangine (12-methoxyibogamine-18-carboxylic acid methyl ester) is an alkaloid found predominantly in the rootbark of the Voacanga africana tree, as well as in other plants such as Tabernanthe iboga, Tabernaemontana africana, Trachelospermum jasminoides and Ervatamia yunnanensis.[2][3][4][5] It is an iboga alkaloid which commonly serves as a precursor for the semi-synthesis of ibogaine.[6] It has also been demonstrated in animals to have similar anti-addictive properties to ibogaine itself -Wikipedia

The United states is in the middle of a heroin epidemic (this is likely because we are waging war in the "golden crescent", the rebel armies fighting our enemies don't have hard currency, but they do have heroin, so the CIA will allow distribution or distribute it themselves to raise large sums of untraceable cash to fund these rebel fighters...but that's another story for another thread) seeing as how the war in the middle east and the heroin epidemic it's causing is not going to.end anytime soon, I feel compounds like ibogaine may be more important than ever, specially when the only alternative is methadone, which has its benefits compared to heroin, but still does nothing to actually treat the addiction, harm reduction shouldn't be the best option to addiction...)

Any way, any information is much appreciated, as I said I have much interest in this area, but have had almost no chances to speak with those who have experienced ibogaine treatment.

-eg
 
Thanks for the replies Intezam and entheogenic-gnosis.

As for maintaining a garden Intezam, I really like the idea. I am currently in the process of moving to colorado so that I can have access to CBD's. So I will be setting up a garden of sorts anyway. I've always enjoyed caring for plants, I have orange, grapefruit, and lemon trees currently.

You seem to really know your stuff about ibogaine's method of action entheogenic-gnosis. I definitely felt relief after the ibogaine treatment, but keep in mind, ibogaine treatment can leave symptoms that might make you think you are experiencing withdrawals. The most common one I saw while there was mild restless leg syndrome. 3 of the guys had restless legs, but it was just from being on such a powerful stimulant. By the 4th day, I managed to get some sleep, and my legs no longer bothered me; so long as I stretched and exercised them. I whole-heartedly recommend you consider ibogaine, should you require an addiction interrupter. There really is nothing like it in the world as far as limiting withdrawal.
 
Aesop_Dottz said:
Thanks for the replies Intezam and entheogenic-gnosis.

As for maintaining a garden Intezam, I really like the idea. I am currently in the process of moving to colorado so that I can have access to CBD's. So I will be setting up a garden of sorts anyway. I've always enjoyed caring for plants, I have orange, grapefruit, and lemon trees currently.

You seem to really know your stuff about ibogaine's method of action entheogenic-gnosis. I definitely felt relief after the ibogaine treatment, but keep in mind, ibogaine treatment can leave symptoms that might make you think you are experiencing withdrawals. The most common one I saw while there was mild restless leg syndrome. 3 of the guys had restless legs, but it was just from being on such a powerful stimulant. By the 4th day, I managed to get some sleep, and my legs no longer bothered me; so long as I stretched and exercised them. I whole-heartedly recommend you consider ibogaine, should you require an addiction interrupter. There really is nothing like it in the world as far as limiting withdrawal.

And this is my key interest here, being able to disrupt addiction with minimal to no withdrawal, in essence being able to "pull someone off" opoids with minimal withdrawal symptoms.

it's very rare that I actually get to speak to someone who has actually been through ibogaine treatment.

My interest involves synthetic opioid with long term withdrawal, such as methadone, even when a taper is attempted is fairly uncomfortable, and dropping only a milligram a day can take years to get off of the stuff.

I've talked to methadone patients who had the treatment, but it was through the treatment centers website, so I was uncertain if it was trustworthy, as they are seeking patients ...

I've been told it eliminates 90-95% of the withdrawal symptoms, which is also consistent with your report.

I've really been looking into voacangine, which essentially is invisible only with a carbomethoxy substitution, I've read voacangine is a stimulant primarily, but can have psychedelic type effects at higher dose, I've also read in animal studies it may have similar addiction disrupting properties.

America needs an alternative to methadone dependence for opioid users, methadone can be great for harm reduction, and getting stabilized, but it leaves you with an addiction that's arguably harder to beat than the illicit opioid.

There's a detox where they put the methadone patient in a coma, and pump them full of opioid antagonists, but it's expensive and can be very unpleasant and risky.

I think psychedelics, specifically tryptamines, phenethylamines, and beta-carbolines, have massive amounts of potential for healing, healing of many kinds, harmala alkaloids (which are structurally similar to ibogaine) are also.said to aide in treating addiction, harmine and harmaline have even been investigated for treating Parkinsons:

Abstract
Dopamine deficiency is characteristic of Parkinson's disease (PD) and treatments aim at elevating levels by administration of its precursor L-dihydroxyphenylalanine (L-DOPA), or inhibiting monoamine oxidases (MAOs), thus preventing its breakdown. Reports of improvements in PD patients treated with Banisteriopsis caapi extracts stimulated investigation of B. caapi stem extract and its two ingredients, harmine and harmaline for these activities. Tests for MAO inhibition using liver homogenate showed that extract and harmaline showed a concentration-dependent inhibition of MAO A (IC(50) 1.24 microg/ml and IC(50) 4.54 nM, respectively) but had little effect on MAO B activity. The extract at 2.5 mg/ml caused a highly significant increase in release of [3H]dopamine from rat striatal slices, as did 200 microM harmine and 6 microM harmaline. In both these experiments, the amount of harmine present could not account for the total activity of the extract. The ability of harmine and harmaline to stimulate dopamine release is a novel finding. These results give some basis to the reputed usefulness of B. caapi stem extract in the treatment of PD
Activities of extract and constituents of Banisteriopsis caapi relevant to parkinsonism - PubMed

I think the most powerful medicinal tools have been with us all along, and medicine men, shamans, and healers have in fact been in possession of the best medicines known to man fir millennia.

Now that cannabis research is being allowed, we are finding numerous medical applications for the plant, most of which are able to out preform the currant medications.

I think it may have something to do with the fact that it would be difficult for pharmaceutical companies to profit off of these natural medications, so they are being suppressed, I'm sites there's also stigma surrounding these compounds due to their "schedule one" status, the federal government has stated that these compounds are addictive, dangerous, have no medical value, and have high potential for abuse, so it's made science (forced science) to be reluctant to research these things, or out right banned them from researching these things...

I think the cures to most the world's ailments will be found in powerful plant medicines.

So, when I learned that a psychedelic tryptamine (beta-carboline) had potential in treating addiction, specifically opioid addiction, I was over noted, though this was quite some time ago, and honestly, it doesn't seem like ibogaine treatment will become available in the United states any time soon...Though I believe there were studies being performed in the United states.

Any way, thank you for sharing your story, anecdotal evidence of the effective use of these medicines is just as important as the published studies, and I have had high hopes for ibogaine ever since I had first learned of it, I accept that there are risks, but my hopes remain high, and hopefully ibogaine treatment will be offered as an option for opioid dependant individuals in the United states. I'm not saying it's the one and only way, but I strongly feel it should at least be offered as an option.

-eg
 
No thanks required, but it is appreciated, It feels really good to let loose some recent events. I am in wholehearted agreement concerning the suppression of certain medicines lacking in patent protocols. You only have to look at the resumes of the FDA's top brass, to know they are big pharma. The top 5 pharmaceuticals have been funneling persona non grata's into the FDA for the last 40 years. Case in point Robert M. Califf.

TIME Magazine: Dr. Califf's income is “contractually underwritten in part by several large pharmaceutical companies, including Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Eli Lilly and Novartis. He also receives as much as $100,000 a year in consulting fees from some of those companies, and from others.” The FDA insists Cahill donates his private income to nonprofits.
"The FDA insists"....Chea-right.

I've talked to methadone patients who had the treatment, but it was through the treatment centers website, so I was uncertain if it was trustworthy, as they are seeking patients ...
There are plenty of "Treatment Centers" out there that warrant scrutiny. I know I was hesitant to send a down payment. It's a real trip, looking back, and seeing the risks I took. Even though I feel far from perfect now; there's a tiny but noticeable part of me that feels blissful. And I think it's growing...I hope. I continue to feel I made the right decision.

I think psychedelics, specifically tryptamines, phenethylamines, and beta-carbolines, have massive amounts of potential for healing, healing of many kinds, harmala alkaloids (which are structurally similar to ibogaine) are also.said to aide in treating addiction, harmine and harmaline have even been investigated for treating Parkinsons:
I too have heard about Ibogaine's potential regarding Parkinson's. I remain optimistic, and offer favorable odds concerning ibogaine's ability to treat the disease. It was a big part of the GITA World Ibogaine Conference. The conference was held in Tetzoplan, Mexico the week before I had my treatment. From what I understand in 2014 an Atypical Parkinson's patient saw remarkable progress after completing a 30 day ibogaine program. But I certainly don't know enough about this to recommend ibogaine as a treatment specifically for parkinson's.

In the hopes of sustaining my recovery, I have been putting thoughts to paper with increasing regularity. Despite being mindful of the knowledge gained from this experience; I am becoming keenly aware of it's transience. The vast majority of my visions are long forgotten; fled as if gas diffusing through liquid. Naturally I am battling negative thoughts; what lay ahead being foremost amongst them. I find myself warding off the creep of melancholy, yet I know deep down, I am in transition. Part of one cycle and finally moving to another. I am not worried. It is easy to forget the facts but harder to forget a feeling. At some point, when I'm closer to 100%, perhaps I'll post a summary of the whole experience. With some luck it might even make sense.
 
Aesop_Dottz said:
No thanks required, but it is appreciated, It feels really good to let loose some recent events. I am in wholehearted agreement concerning the suppression of certain medicines lacking in patent protocols. You only have to look at the resumes of the FDA's top brass, to know they are big pharma. The top 5 pharmaceuticals have been funneling persona non grata's into the FDA for the last 40 years. Case in point Robert M. Califf.

TIME Magazine: Dr. Califf's income is “contractually underwritten in part by several large pharmaceutical companies, including Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Eli Lilly and Novartis. He also receives as much as $100,000 a year in consulting fees from some of those companies, and from others.” The FDA insists Cahill donates his private income to nonprofits.
"The FDA insists"....Chea-right.

I've talked to methadone patients who had the treatment, but it was through the treatment centers website, so I was uncertain if it was trustworthy, as they are seeking patients ...
There are plenty of "Treatment Centers" out there that warrant scrutiny. I know I was hesitant to send a down payment. It's a real trip, looking back, and seeing the risks I took. Even though I feel far from perfect now; there's a tiny but noticeable part of me that feels blissful. And I think it's growing...I hope. I continue to feel I made the right decision.

I think psychedelics, specifically tryptamines, phenethylamines, and beta-carbolines, have massive amounts of potential for healing, healing of many kinds, harmala alkaloids (which are structurally similar to ibogaine) are also.said to aide in treating addiction, harmine and harmaline have even been investigated for treating Parkinsons:
I too have heard about Ibogaine's potential regarding Parkinson's. I remain optimistic, and offer favorable odds concerning ibogaine's ability to treat the disease. It was a big part of the GITA World Ibogaine Conference. The conference was held in Tetzoplan, Mexico the week before I had my treatment. From what I understand in 2014 an Atypical Parkinson's patient saw remarkable progress after completing a 30 day ibogaine program. But I certainly don't know enough about this to recommend ibogaine as a treatment specifically for parkinson's.

In the hopes of sustaining my recovery, I have been putting thoughts to paper with increasing regularity. Despite being mindful of the knowledge gained from this experience; I am becoming keenly aware of it's transience. The vast majority of my visions are long forgotten; fled as if gas diffusing through liquid. Naturally I am battling negative thoughts; what lay ahead being foremost amongst them. I find myself warding off the creep of melancholy, yet I know deep down, I am in transition. Part of one cycle and finally moving to another. I am not worried. It is easy to forget the facts but harder to forget a feeling. At some point, when I'm closer to 100%, perhaps I'll post a summary of the whole experience. With some luck it might even make sense.

Thank you again, all of this has been most helpful.

my research into harmala alkaloids, voacangine, alpha-ethyl-tryptamine, levomethorphan/dextromethorphan, mitragynine, 7-hydroxymitragynine, and many other compounds with the potential to aide in withdrawl has been eventful and valuable, though it does seem that ibogaine is still the most promising option.

I hope you share your story, I've talked with many opioid dependant individuals and methadone patients who are not even aware ibogaine exists or is an option, and while it may not be suited for everybody, it has the potential to free so many people from opioid dependence.

The pro-psychedelic plant position clearly is an anti-drug position. Drug dependencies are the result of habitual, unexamined and obsessive behavior; these are precisely the tendencies that the psychedelics mitigate. -terence mckenna

Again, I have much interest here an appreciate your insight.

Thanks,

-eg
 
The effects of nigella sativa (black seed) extract on morphine induced conditioned place preference
 
Welcome Aesop_Dottz!

I love reading a success story of someone getting off methadone. Congrats on being released from it's long lasting grip! One of my best friends managed to wean herself off the juice by tapering down to 1ml and then went down by .1ml until what she was taking was basically air. She had no withdrawals whatsoever. If one has time, this is quite a good route to take.

Again, well done! I would get that bumper-sticker if I were you :)
 
DoingKermit said:
Welcome Aesop_Dottz!

I love reading a success story of someone getting off methadone. Congrats on being released from it's long lasting grip! One of my best friends managed to wean herself off the juice by tapering down to 1ml and then went down by .1ml until what she was taking was basically air. She had no withdrawals whatsoever. If one has time, this is quite a good route to take.

Again, well done! I would get that bumper-sticker if I were you :)

The taper works for many, but others who may have been on for tens of years or at hundreds of milligrams may have difficulty with this method...even some with unique biochemistry get sick tapering from low dose...

Not to mention the time factor, dropping 1mg per week from 200mgs would take 3.8 years...

Ibogaine is not suited for everyone, nor is tapering, every individual is going to have their own specific needs.

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis said:
The taper works for many, but others who may have been on for tens of years or at hundreds of milligrams may have difficulty with this method...even some with unique biochemistry get sick tapering from low dose...

Not to mention the time factor, dropping 1mg per week from 200mgs would take 3.8 years...

Ibogaine is not suited for everyone, nor is tapering, every individual is going to have their own specific needs.

-eg

Hi EG,

I fully agree that the tapering method isn't suited for all. The person I spoke of is indeed just one person and the drug will act differently from case to case. She was only able to reduce 1ml (and below) at a time, once she got down to under 5mls. Before that it was 5ml every 2 or 3 weeks.

Addiction is such a psychological game. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. As you stated, its about finding what best suits the individual.
 
Just wanted to pop in and say that I would be reeeeeaaalllly careful with ketamine. They call it paychedelic heroin. It has a vaguely similar sort of numb, disconnected euphoria that is pretty seductive. If you have a weakness for opiates, I might imagine you could have a weakness for ketamine as well. There are sooooo many ways to work on depression with less potentially addictive substances... you mentioned wanting to try harmalas. Harmalas are an incredible tool for working on depression.
 
As for the ketamine statements, when abused, I could see ketamine as being a very destructive compound, though I was under the impression that cessation of use in dependant individuals carried no physical malaise to accompany it, and that the addiction was psychological.

Ketamine also has various legitimate medical applications, it's an anesthesia that does not impair breathing in the same was as other compounds for this function, it's also used in treatment of pain, depression and other ailments.

My experiences with ketamine left me unimpressed, perhaps John lilly had talked it up to the point where I was expecting more than a rather pointless intoxication, but that's all I received. I personally have never been very enthusiastic in regards to ketamine, it's another one of these pseudo-psychedelics with questionable applications in that regard.

I have not noticed a correlation between opioid use and an affinity for ketamine.

Ketamine is primarily an NMDA receptor antagonist, but does have weak agonism at the kappa and mu opioid receptors, with very weak agonism at the delta opioid receptor, as well as a good deal of other fairly complex pharmacology...

Actually, ibogaine is an NMDA receptor antagonist with mild agonism at the kappa, delta, and mu opioid receptors, then it also carrie serotonin 2a and 2c receptor agonism.

Maybe ketamine could aide in opioid dependence disruption and withdrawal management as well?

Dextromethorphan is another NMDA antagonist with mild agonism at kappa, delta, and mu opioid receptors (as well as other pharmacological actions) that has been said to aide in opioid dependence disruption and aide in withdrawal...

-eg
 
Welcome

Intezam said:
:) Always good to take some of the tip karmic pressure build off by starting a small (legal) entheogenic garden and try to feel & connect with these living teachers...and the soil....the meaning of growing up is this...(response-ability we think)[/size][/i]

Totally agree
 
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