Why do visuals and visions on psychedelics matter?

[RAM]

I recently had an interesting, albeit probably unnecessary, psychedelic experience with my partner on LSD. The trip caused more harm than good in that it felt quite draining on our bodies, minds, and emotional states with few-to-no immediately apparent lessons. The trip did reinforce some things we have been thinking and we feel, but it was definitely not worth being drained and the negative aspects.

Right after the trip, we were also concerned about the nature of and reason for the visuals and various visions we had during the experience. I, for example, saw energy beams exploding out of our third eyes with multicolored apertures spinning vigorously around them. My partner saw giant webs of wings/leaves, with small eyes at every bend. While these things may be magnificent and "cool," it felt as if we were using the drug as a "party trick" to see cool colors and crazy stuff that did not really teach us anything.

That got me thinking - why do we care what we see during psychedelic experiences if they do not teach us anything meaningful and if we cannot take any useful lessons away from seeing them, at least continuously? I can understand the argument that seeing these things provides the inherent lesson of subjective ways in which to see the world and the possibility for deeper and/or more spiritual beings, but if they do not teach us anything, why do we continue pursuing them? Is there a point? Or do they just become a "side effect" of psychedelic experiences for which we have different mental and/or emotional intentions?

 

[DmnStr8]

Going into any experience with expectation will often leave you feeling disappointed.

I think it is perfectly fine to use LSD just for fun! Anything in moderation. LSD is fun! That is all there is to it. Allow yourself the child like fascination with everything. Giggle like a little kid. Allow yourself some fun!

We have to take the role of the student and pay attention. In Zen Buddhism they refer to this state of mind as 'shoshin' or beginner's mind. The child's mind is the beginner's mind or shoshin. If you did not learn a lesson or felt drained, I would say there were many factors that could contribute to those things. The biggest contribution to the student not learning is not paying attention.

Psychedelics are very self regulating. If you are dragging through a trip just waiting for it to be over, then a break may be in order.

It can be hard to pull yourself out of a lame trip, but it is something you must try when you are using LSD. You must take responsibility for your experience and create a better one as much as possible. Sometimes just going into another room with different music can change the whole trip. Other times it is as simple as closing your eyes for a few minutes and trippin out on the back of your eyelids, watching the patterns. It is a choice.

There is always a lesson when you take psychedelics. Sometimes it is not until a few days later you realize it, but there is always a lesson. Perhaps the lesson in this particular trip is that you need a break from LSD. Perhaps the lesson is to contrast your really good trips. They can't all be winners!

I think all of the questions you are asking are ones that you should really ask yourself. You are responsible for what you take out of the experience. Your the student. Don't blame the teacher.

 

[hixidom]

It's hard for me to answer because it depends on the type of visuals you have. If you have visuals that don't matter, then okay...but if you have a vision of how quantum mechanics and general relativity can be unified then you better find a way to write it down and share it with others.

So my point is that we should try to use these drugs for insights rather than for the visual "party tricks". I'm not sure how much of that we actually have control over, but we should strive to have experiences that result in mathematical/philosophical insights. That is, insights which can be expressed in such a logical concrete way that you could hand it to a sober person and they would be compelled to agree with it. That is, insights which are true in a broader context than the one that is available while on drugs.

 

[woogyboogy]

I think a few factors might play into there.
Some one else who hasnt got a lot of experience with psychedelics might find these visions you had rather amazing, and could get alot out of them, and it might inspire alot of reading on what it could have been they have seen.
The basic lesson here, that there is more to reality then we usually see is probably learned very soon, but I dont think it stops there. I mean basically all kind of religions and myths have been built upon vision like those, so there is something hidden there, that has the potential to withstand the centuries.

I agree that there is a certain quality to LSD, that allows for the most easy going visions, like pure visual fire works, and ego transcending feelings, without that certain "edge"(for not having another word for it) that ie mushrooms provide. It is perfectly made for just having a beautiful cosmic, multidimensional and very colorful afternoon, without to much self inquiry.(at least for me)
Mushrooms on the other hand are completely different mindset to me..

Also quite a few people have been known to say that after the first few trips they have basically learned all the lessons there are to it.(think of alan watts..)
Now a lot of people here have a different opinion on that, but one can see, that tripping has different values for different people..

Another thing is that I think at least for me, it is okay to go in for the fun, and beautiful part only, like I also dont stop going into the same woods again and again only because I know them already.
On the other hand though, especially a LSD trip can be much more tiring then going into the woods, so one might think more carefully if he really has the time and energy at hand of doing so...

And

 

[ijahdan]

To me, a psychedelic experience is analogous to the experience of the 'real' world. Psychedelic visuals are just what you are seeing in the psychedelic world, just as non psychedelic visuals are what you are seeing in the real world, consensus reality, whatever you call it.

Psychedelic visions, as opposed to visuals, I think of as analogous to dreams, or when you see something with 'your mind's eye'.

There are also 'grey areas' where what is seen contains elements of both worlds combined. My OEV's are mostly this kind of thing. Rarely see things that are not present in my real world visual field.

It seems only natural that we use our same five senses in the psychedelic experience as in reality, and I suppose sight is our most important and highly developed sense. Sounds, smells, tastes and feelings are also generated and modulated by psychedelics, although to a lesser degree. I found a thread on another forum where a guy who's been blind from birth talks about his experiences with psychedelics. Was interesting. Ill try to find it again and link it.

 

[Swarupa]

Visuals and visions are an intrinsic part of the experience but I see no reason to over-emphasize them, if it becomes all about the visuals they may even become a distraction. In meditation some find they become disenchanted with visions and other temporary mind-states, I think the same principle can apply to entheogens.

I find I prefer the clarity, deep emotions and music appreciation, although visuals can play an important part in all of it, as with synaesthesia, or when they correspond/reflect your current mind-state helping to guide your mind.

The way I see it, whatever I see, there’s more than meets the eye.

 

[○]

We're visual creatures. That might be part of it.

Though i've said often that the feelings associated with these experiences exceed the visual aspect, in terms of what sticks and you bring back.

In many ways though I think the visual aspect of the experience is as equal in footing as the feeling side of it. The visual aspect seems in many ways to be tied in with the feeling/thought side of it, intertwined. This seems especially prevalent in the dmt experience.

It all seems to be happening in one swoop.

My 2c

 

[Lizz]

Going into any experience with expectation will often leave you feeling disappointed.

I think it is perfectly fine to use LSD just for fun! Anything in moderation. LSD is fun! That is all there is to it. Allow yourself the child like fascination with everything. Giggle like a little kid. Allow yourself some fun!

We have to take the role of the student and pay attention. In Zen Buddhism they refer to this state of mind as 'shoshin' or beginner's mind. The child's mind is the beginner's mind or shoshin. If you did not learn a lesson or felt drained, I would say there were many factors that could contribute to those things. The biggest contribution to the student not learning is not paying attention.

Psychedelics are very self regulating. If you are dragging through a trip just waiting for it to be over, then a break may be in order.

It can be hard to pull yourself out of a lame trip, but it is something you must try when you are using LSD. You must take responsibility for your experience and create a better one as much as possible. Sometimes just going into another room with different music can change the whole trip. Other times it is as simple as closing your eyes for a few minutes and trippin out on the back of your eyelids, watching the patterns. It is a choice.

There is always a lesson when you take psychedelics. Sometimes it is not until a few days later you realize it, but there is always a lesson. Perhaps the lesson in this particular trip is that you need a break from LSD. Perhaps the lesson is to contrast your really good trips. They can't all be winners!

I think all of the questions you are asking are ones that you should really ask yourself. You are responsible for what you take out of the experience. Your the student. Don't blame the teacher.

This. Exactly. I had a similar experience my last LSD trip. The visuals were very cool, but there was little else to it. But my husbands trip wasnt as visual as mine and he was getting depressed and emotional and wanted to discuss our shortcomings as people and parents, and while i really tried to stay with it, the visuals were just too overwhelming. I couldnt focus on the conversation. I couldnt think because when i would try to retreat back in to my mind to think of something to say i would just be accosted my abstract thought patterns and loops!

But then again i went in to the experience with the intention of having fun. Apparently my husband didnt. I think the child like wonder that psychedelics provide is its own reward from a mundane and dreary life where you are forced to do spend most of your time doing something you hate in exchange for currency that really has no meaning but for some reason, having it determines your worth as a person. Unless you do what you love for a living, then good on ya!
But when i feel burnt out, LSD is my go to medicine. Its therapuetic in its own right.
But i agree with dmnst8, maybe try another substance next time? Take a break from LSD, there are other better things for having a deep and meaningful experience .

 

[RAM]

Thank you for the responses everyone. I want to address a few things.

I think it is perfectly fine to use LSD just for fun! Anything in moderation. LSD is fun! That is all there is to it. Allow yourself the child like fascination with everything. Giggle like a little kid. Allow yourself some fun!

We have to take the role of the student and pay attention. In Zen Buddhism they refer to this state of mind as 'shoshin' or beginner's mind. The child's mind is the beginner's mind or shoshin. If you did not learn a lesson or felt drained, I would say there were many factors that could contribute to those things. The biggest contribution to the student not learning is not paying attention.

Thank for your thoughtful reply DmnStr8. Personally I am uncomfortable with the idea of using drugs "for fun;" I think this is a dangerous precedent to set, especially with me and my partner feeling so drained after this last trip. It could become a game of drawing lines about how much physical toll is alright for a "fun" time, which can lead down a negative path of drug use.

And while I do find DMT to be a sacred molecule in many ways, a big thing discussed on the trip was that LSD is really just another artificial molecule. For many years, it was used as a pharmaceutical and that's what it still feels like, with its ups and downs and emotional opening. While it may be a useful drug, it is still that in my opinion: a drug. Therefore I do not view LSD itself as a teacher. I view it more as a tool that allows me to teach myself even more.

Visuals and visions are an intrinsic part of the experience but I see no reason to over-emphasize them, if it becomes all about the visuals they may even become a distraction. In meditation some find they become disenchanted with visions and other temporary mind-states, I think the same principle can apply to entheogens.

I like this view a lot; I see how the visions could become a distraction more than anything else. I also appreciate your take on how visuals can represent a deeper mind-state. Once on LSD, I viewed our whole culture as a set of meaningless social constructs in a big webbed chart. The chart got really big and then tapered out as my ego died and I was left egoless for hours. I suppose that in this way, visuals can be useful as they can make abstract concepts clearer and give new understandings of how our brains think of and work with ideas.

We plan to take a break from LSD for quite a while. We do like trimming our egos occasionally, but we'll probably explore with mescaline and DMT next time we feel the need for a good trip.

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Great posts so far! This is quite a variable topic for discussion.

The way I see it, whatever I see, there’s more than meets the eye.

Much agreed. To know is to unknow.

Visuals certainly do not always entail a true, life-changing, entheogenic experience. It can be much deeper and/or subtle at the root of who and what you are. The visual effects approach naturally upon our willingness to see and envision these alterations, ime. Which for most folks, is part and parcel upon their initial recall of the overall experience. Particularly if it's their first experience or when tolerance is fresh. More often than not, it's dosage that is key. Higher doses can force visual changes whereas lower doses may embrace the subtleties you may had not seen before. Within MAO-I circumstances, different altogether.

 

[spacexplorer]

Sometimes they can show you an insight but to be honest they don't matter.

 

[Elpo]

Why do you assume the visuals meant nothing for you?
Have you looked up anything on the 3d eye, after you witnessed the beam of energy?

Sometimes it is more about what we ourselves do with the information we get than the information itself. In some of my experiences the changes and lessons can be very gradual and subtle too.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Just a quick response to your basic title question:

"why do visuals and visions on psychedelics matter?"

At times they don't, and often they can be a distraction...

But, something's can not be expressed in basic language, you can not be told, you must be "shown"

I thinks it's actually one of the most advanced forms of communication out there...

And your not just visually "shown", your a shown using every sense you have.

...one time on psilocin fungi, my body became a formless blob, an ameoba or a single cell, and then I rapidly went through evolution, from a single cell to a functioning human body, I can't properly explain what happened, but now I understand evolution on an experiential level, now, nothing I could say could allow you to know what this felt like, you would have to go through it...

This hallucination or "vision" gave me a deep understanding on a core natural process...

Hallucinations can be of vision, of environment, of body, and of time...

... and using every available sense would be the most advanced method for communicating a very specific and complex message where simple language would have failed...you don't get a description, it's not like a movie or a story, you actually experiance an event which conveys a very advanced and specific message...




that's my two-cents on visions, advanced communications which use all your senses to convey a specific message...

Who knows, maybe it's your unconscious trying to communicate, maybe it's non-physical beings or spirits and gods or maybe it's the actual compound or plant reaching out with these messages, but regardless there's something being communicated, in a very complex and advanced manner...



-eg