why don't europeans want any actual power?

[dragonrider]

Isn't it weird that europeans generally don't seem to want europe to be powerfull? I find it very odd, given the fact that they dó tend to complain a lot about america's dominance in the world.

I think it, in all likelyhood can only mean that either europeans 1-believe that they already are extremely powerfull on their own....and this is ofcourse silly and tragic at the same time (And i would argue that being silly and tragic at the same time is something that you shouldn't want unless you're a masochist). For instance: britain has a population that is less than a fifth of that of the american population, AND a lower average income, so america is not five, but rather six or seven times larger than britain, economically. How could anyone reasonably believe that britain could have an equal weight, politically, economically and militarily with such figures? But enough, let me get to the other option..2-europeans don't want to have any power because they are so enlightened and detached from all things material....well, sure. Sounds plausible, not? :roll: .

Another option is ofcourse 3-europeans tend to have a minority complex. They don't want europe to be powerfull because they look up to america and deep down inside, they feel totally inferiour to americans. And that's why they don't even want to try to actually get a say in anything. Because they don't believe that they coulc actually pull it off.

Anyway, i just don't get it. Africans want africa to prosper. Asians want asia to be the dominant part of the world. Americans all want to 'make america great'. All without shame.
What makes europeans so different? Why would you want your corner of the world to be a totally irrellevant, darkened place? A defenceless subject to external forces that you don't trust? Why would you want to be dominated by china, america and Russia? Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?

I mean, what chance does an english or belgian steve jobs have to become the founder of the biggest company in the world?
And why the hell, as an englishmen or belgian, would you want it to stay that way?

Maybe someone could enlighten me.

 

[hug46]

why don't europeans want any actual power?...................Maybe someone could enlighten me.

I think it has something to do with Europeans having a better choice of quality cheeses.

EDIT.Dragonrider my cheese analogy has got me to thinking that europeans are number 2 on your list. When it comes to empire building a lot of European countries have been there, done that, got the T shirt and then lost the T shirt and so have already drunk from the empty cup of power. Maybe we are just happy with half decent healthcare and decent food nowadays. Europeans are a very erudite and cultured bunch.

 

[Chan]

There is a 4th possibility:

The Unipolar United States will not countenance any of it's "allies" - let alone, enemies - coming close to achieving economic parity.

While the dollar is still the world's principal reserve currency, everybody is else is stuck sucking green dick. At least until the Chinese start calling in their debts...

Some people have attempted to challenge this, principally by announcing they will carry out major trades, for oil & commodities etc, in euros. You may have heard of them: Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gadafi. Strangely, everybody else seems to have gone quiet about that for now...

But hey, thanks for thinking of us, with TTIP, and inviting us along to all your wars and stuff.

Thanks also for sending us Robert Mundell, to help design the euro and ensure it worked as intended...

Keep huffing on that bong, bro!

 

[pitubo]

Maybe someone could enlighten me.

Maybe you should start questioning your own assumptions instead.

Maybe there are no Europeans in the sense that you are trying to put it. The people living in "Europe" (by whatever - arbitrary - boundary you define that) might as well be called "Eurasians", a designation that includes Siberia and Asia. Or, in an opposite manner of reasoning, you could differentiate between southern, northern, western or eastern Europeans.

Perhaps you should consider this: the "capital" of the European Union is Brussels. This is also where the headquarters of NATO are located. I believe that this is not a mere coincidence. The top commander of NATO is appointed by the president of the USA. Personally, as a "European", I feel represented by the EU as much as I feel represented by NATO. I should really try to remain far away from suggesting money, drugs and pedosexual blackmail as an invisible hand in matters of high politics, as such would be against nexus policy.

After the past 15 years, if you still don't see the obvious, what is there to say at all?

I have said this before in other contexts: instead of begging for enlightenment, people should really figure out what is keeping them unenlightened.

 

[Ufostrahlen]

It's much smarter to pretend that you are harmless and strike when nobody expects it.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Maybe it's not that Europeans have an unusually low desire for power, but rather, that American culture is almost freakishly saturated by a nearly unquenchable thirst for dominance.

Blessings
~ND

 

[universecannon]

Maybe it's not that Europeans have an unusually low desire for power, but rather, that American culture is almost freakishly saturated by a nearly unquenchable thirst for dominance.

Blessings
~ND

And a thirst for dominance/incessant need to control things is a sign of a deranged and fear driven mind... not a balanced one more in harmony with nature. There is some amazing places and people here, but I'm far from proud to live in the United Police States of America. Our political/judicial/military/corporate run system is a joke and we coerce other countries into the madness. I identify as an earthling and get sick of imaginary lines on a map that mold perspectives into reality-tunnel-vision, pitching humans against other humans when, meanwhile, we continue to distract ourselves with endless bullshit while collectively reaping devastation upon the only home we have.

The world should be collectively cutting back on military/nuclear arms, not building them up. Why does the US need 7,700 nuclear warheads? Is that sane behavior?

"Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?"

Several European countries are actually ahead of the united states in many categories including happiness, education, drug policy, etc..I think you might have some 'murica goggles on my friend.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Maybe it's not that Europeans have an unusually low desire for power, but rather, that American culture is almost freakishly saturated by a nearly unquenchable thirst for dominance.

Blessings
~ND

And a thirst for dominance/incessant need to control things is a sign of a deranged and fear driven mind... not a balanced one more in harmony with nature. There is some amazing places and people here, but I'm far from proud to live in the United Police States of America. Our political/judicial/military/corporate run system is a joke and we coerce other countries into the madness. I identify as an earthling and get sick of imaginary lines on a map that mold perspectives into reality-tunnel-vision, pitching humans against other humans when, meanwhile, we continue to distract ourselves with endless bullshit while collectively reaping devastation upon the only home we have.

The world should be collectively cutting back on military/nuclear arms, not building them up. Why does the US need 7,700 nuclear warheads? Is that sane behavior?

"Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?"

Several European countries are actually ahead of the united states in many categories including happiness, education, drug policy, etc..I think you might have some 'murica goggles on my friend.

Don't worry, I have no great love for the US of A. I'm no flag waver, too much of an an anarchist for that. :d

Blessings
~ND

 

[Ufostrahlen]

"Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?"

Oh, I overread that. OP means like getting shot in a mass school shooting? Or more like becoming an overindebted corporate slave? Well duh... You know how ridiculous it sounds to pay 80k per year for university?

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Some European countries are even more developed than the US (Europe takes some of the top HDI ranks, the US the 8th rank, the UK 14th) and if you look at Africa, there's virtually no development at all. The inequality-adjusted HDI by the United Nations Development Programme ranks the US 27th, sharing the rank with Poland (wtf...).

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a composite statistic of life expectancy, education, and income per capita indicators. "The IHDI can be interpreted as the level of human development when inequality is accounted for. ", whereas the Human Development Index itself is "an index of potential human development (or the maximum IHDI that could be achieved if there were no inequality)".

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of countries by inequality-adjusted Human Development Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But I see you made a fine joke, I politely chuckle.

 

[Chan]

I mean, what chance does an english or belgian steve jobs have to become the founder of the biggest company in the world?

Given the number of recently created Syrian refugees, there could soon be lots more Steve Jobs popping up across Europe. Was that the plan?

 

[dragonrider]

Maybe it's not that Europeans have an unusually low desire for power, but rather, that American culture is almost freakishly saturated by a nearly unquenchable thirst for dominance.

Blessings
~ND

And a thirst for dominance/incessant need to control things is a sign of a deranged and fear driven mind... not a balanced one more in harmony with nature. There is some amazing places and people here, but I'm far from proud to live in the United Police States of America. Our political/judicial/military/corporate run system is a joke and we coerce other countries into the madness. I identify as an earthling and get sick of imaginary lines on a map that mold perspectives into reality-tunnel-vision, pitching humans against other humans when, meanwhile, we continue to distract ourselves with endless bullshit while collectively reaping devastation upon the only home we have.

The world should be collectively cutting back on military/nuclear arms, not building them up. Why does the US need 7,700 nuclear warheads? Is that sane behavior?

"Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?"

Several European countries are actually ahead of the united states in many categories including happiness, education, drug policy, etc..I think you might have some 'murica goggles on my friend.

But if what you say is true, shouldn't europeans then want some power for themselves, at least to be able to have a say in their own affairs and not be constantly bullied around by superpowers such as the united states?
If what you say is true, then europeans should have all the more reason to be concerned with their part of the world, and to want to be able to withstand all this american dominance.
But that sense does oddly enough seems to be missing.
There's a lot of fear for refugees and terrorism, but not a sense of "let's work this out together".
When you look at all the stuff that's happening internationally, then erope is clearly on the losing side of pretty much every major devellopment. And for instance the british, don't generally seem to recognise that by weakening europe, they have weakened their own position in the world as well.
That's the one thing that has been completely left out of all of the debates considering the brexit referendum even: that europe's position in the world is currently a very weak one, and that by weakening it evenfurther, all of europe is going to be affected by that.
How could any european want that with all the threats facing europe?
-a refugee/migration crisis.
-a jihad crisis, with terrorists hiding in the stream of migrants, according to european intelligence agencies.
-a constantly looming new financial crisis.
-a neighbouring military superpower lead by a dicatorial regime with national-socialist/imperial tendencies.
-chinese economic dumping policy's.
-american, chinese or some other external economic power, forcing individual european countries into all kinds of deals that do not benefit these european countries.
You'd expect europeans at least to want...to be able to deal with all of this and more.

 

[endlessness]

Isn't it weird that europeans generally don't seem to want europe to be powerfull?

Source?

 

[hug46]

That's the one thing that has been completely left out of all of the debates considering the brexit referendum even: that europe's position in the world is currently a very weak one, and that by weakening it evenfurther, all of europe is going to be affected by that.

I don't know what debates you were watching but the weakening of both Britain and the EU following a brexit was fairly high up on the agendas of the remain camp and was definitely brought up. A lot.

 

[pitubo]

How could any european want that with all the threats facing europe?
-a refugee/migration crisis.
-a jihad crisis, with terrorists hiding in the stream of migrants, according to european intelligence agencies.
-a constantly looming new financial crisis.
-a neighbouring military superpower lead by a dicatorial regime with national-socialist/imperial tendencies.
-chinese economic dumping policy's.
-american, chinese or some other external economic power, forcing individual european countries into all kinds of deals that do not benefit these european countries.

Wow dragonrider, thanks for being so well informed and for sharing your critical observations of objective news sources with us, the unwashed semiliterate hillbillies.

Allow me to present to you the glorious award for exceptional exceptionalism. I have personally forged it from steel beams that I had melted in a sooting kerosine fire.

You'd expect europeans at least to want...to be able to deal with all of this and more.

We have a secret weapon. Irony.

 

[ijahdan]

Most of the threats facing Europe are a result of American imperialism. If America hadnt been so obsessed by world dominance, the Russians wouldnt have been forced to build up such a huge military might and also get involved in proxy wars such as in Afghanistan. American military presence in the middle east and their support for Israel is a major cause of Islamic terrorism. Admitadly, European governments, especially British, generally support this.

I'd like to see Europe being less like America and building on its true strengths, such as having good, free healthcare and education, sensible drug policies, multicultural communities etc.

 

[benzyme]

Maybe it's not that Europeans have an unusually low desire for power, but rather, that American culture is almost freakishly saturated by a nearly unquenchable thirst for dominance.

Blessings
~ND

And a thirst for dominance/incessant need to control things is a sign of a deranged and fear driven mind... not a balanced one more in harmony with nature. There is some amazing places and people here, but I'm far from proud to live in the United Police States of America. Our political/judicial/military/corporate run system is a joke and we coerce other countries into the madness. I identify as an earthling and get sick of imaginary lines on a map that mold perspectives into reality-tunnel-vision, pitching humans against other humans when, meanwhile, we continue to distract ourselves with endless bullshit while collectively reaping devastation upon the only home we have.

The world should be collectively cutting back on military/nuclear arms, not building them up. Why does the US need 7,700 nuclear warheads? Is that sane behavior?

"Why would you want your childeren not to have the same chances in life, as american childeren?"

Several European countries are actually ahead of the united states in many categories including happiness, education, drug policy, etc..I think you might have some 'murica goggles on my friend.

Don't worry, I have no great love for the US of A. I'm no flag waver, too much of an an anarchist for that. :d

Blessings
~ND

you and me both.
symbols are for the symbol-minded, unless we're talking about math, where they become operands.
corporations and politicians in bed with them love nothing more than to indoctrinate the youth, and influence public opinion by using children as tools. manufactured catastrophes are the new norm, funded by central banks are arms dealers.

all sleight-of-hand trickery, to distract people from the reality that their countries were bought from right under their feet from said bankers, long ago.

 

[pitubo]

Most of the threats facing Europe are a result of American imperialism.

To be fair, I don't believe in singling out "American imperialism" as the sole and simple culprit. What I see going on is a global phenomenon that most resembles class warfare. Nationalism is just one of the hooks used to lead people by the nose, as is organized religion and any other manufactured identity.

Insecure people seek psychological shelter in externally approved identities, but these are only provided for the purpose of being used against them, so they can be pitted against each other.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Most of the threats facing Europe are a result of American imperialism. If America hadnt been so obsessed by world dominance, the Russians wouldnt have been forced to build up such a huge military might and also get involved in proxy wars such as in Afghanistan. American military presence in the middle east and their support for Israel is a major cause of Islamic terrorism. Admitadly, European governments, especially British, generally support this.

I'd like to see Europe being less like America and building on its true strengths, such as having good, free healthcare and education, sensible drug policies, multicultural communities etc.

The word you're looking for is 'neoliberalism,' and while it's not as unique to America as you're suggesting, I have to admit, they have done a pretty spectacular job turning it into a global force. China, the EU, and other developing countries are doing a pretty good job taking the reigns though as well.

Blessings
~ND

 

[endlessness]

To be fair, I don't believe in singling out "American imperialism" as the sole and simple culprit. What I see going on is a global phenomenon that most resembles class warfare. Nationalism is just one of the hooks used to lead people by the nose, as is organized religion and any other manufactured identity.

Insecure people seek psychological shelter in externally approved identities, but these are only provided for the purpose of being used against them, so they can be pitted against each other.

Well said!

 

[ijahdan]

Insecure people seek psychological shelter in externally approved identities, but these are only provided for the purpose of being used against them, so they can be pitted against each other.

True, it's easy to get sucked in by these cultural identities. I try not to see myself as 'British' or 'European', but sometimes slip into that mindset, mainly when comparing 'us' with some other group of people, such as in this very thread.

The old 'divide and rule', it's been working for centuries.