why don't europeans want any actual power?

[pitubo]

The question is completely legitimate: Why would people want to act against their own best interest? Why have britons, to be more specific, acted against their own best interest by voting 'leave'?

I don't feel it is legitimate to determine all by yourself what is "their own best interest" for each of the millions of Britons.

If europe is facing a lot of threats, then why would people who live there want to undermine the capacity of their country, to deal with these threats?

For a moment I will assume that your use of the word "Europe" refers to the European Union. Personally, I do not very strongly associate the EU with the geographical entity "Europe", nor with the population inhabiting that area. I strongly associate the EU with a closed group of people, representing certain minority interests.

In my mind, the main threat facing the EU is the public discontent about its lack of moral and democratic legitimacy. Crises such as the ones you refer to are in fact welcomed by the EU as it can hijack and parade the issues as an excuse to claim more legislative and executive powers.

In light of the above, I see as one of the main threats to the population of "Europe" the very European Union in its current form.

Your question actually makes a lot of assertions. You should really try to question the assumptions underlying these assertion, or else you risk operating as a mindless propaganda drone.

That is a relevant question.

Since I feel that I have deconstructed your question, I can no longer consider it sensible nor relevant.

It's not hysterical, irrational, or politically extreme at all, to ask this question. Especially given all the current threats europe is facing, and especially when america is, with or without the big turd who shall not be named but who is a well known real-estate develloper with a small penis, less and less willing (and this is only reasonable), and also less and less able, to protect europe.

Given the verbatim quotes that were reproduced earlier in this thread, I find your - albeit slightly weakened - accusations are becoming disingenuous. The rest of the paragraph is no less than hysterical and IMHO does not belong on this forum.

I hope that you do not construct my last sentences as support for either USA presidential candidate. My estimate of the United States power structure is similar as that of the European Union. It does not represent the population at all.

 

[dragonrider]

The question is completely legitimate: Why would people want to act against their own best interest? Why have britons, to be more specific, acted against their own best interest by voting 'leave'?

I don't feel it is legitimate to determine all by yourself what is "their own best interest" for each of the millions of Britons.

If europe is facing a lot of threats, then why would people who live there want to undermine the capacity of their country, to deal with these threats?

For a moment I will assume that your use of the word "Europe" refers to the European Union. Personally, I do not very strongly associate the EU with the geographical entity "Europe", nor with the population inhabiting that area. I strongly associate the EU with a closed group of people, representing certain minority interests.

In my mind, the main threat facing the EU is the public discontent about its lack of moral and democratic legitimacy. Crises such as the ones you refer to are in fact welcomed by the EU as it can hijack and parade the issues as an excuse to claim more legislative and executive powers.

In light of the above, I see as one of the main threats to the population of "Europe" the very European Union in its current form.

Your question actually makes a lot of assertions. You should really try to question the assumptions underlying these assertion, or else you risk operating as a mindless propaganda drone.

That is a relevant question.

Since I feel that I have deconstructed your question, I can no longer consider it sensible nor relevant.

It's not hysterical, irrational, or politically extreme at all, to ask this question. Especially given all the current threats europe is facing, and especially when america is, with or without the big turd who shall not be named but who is a well known real-estate develloper with a small penis, less and less willing (and this is only reasonable), and also less and less able, to protect europe.

Given the verbatim quotes that were reproduced earlier in this thread, I find your - albeit slightly weakened - accusations are becoming disingenuous. The rest of the paragraph is no less than hysterical and IMHO does not belong on this forum.

I hope that you do not construct my last sentences as support for either USA presidential candidate. My estimate of the United States power structure is similar as that of the European Union. It does not represent the population at all.

But i completely agree with you on the current state of the EU.
But you could say the same things about basically ANY current power structure. They all have failed terribly.
But why then, don't americans want the USA to desintegrate? Because they know very well that outside of the USA their position will be weaker.

I guess they've figured out that the choice is whether they rather want to be controlled by washington or bejing. And that many of them like the last option even less.