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Why Fractals?

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DisEmboDied

DisEmboDied

Rising Star
So the question is simple, Why fractals?


Why are the visions and experiences given and received in fractal nature?

I know no one really knows the answer to this scientifically, neurologically yet, but it is strange that psychedelics, particularly DMT, present the world, wherever that may be, as fractal.
(this is different from the question, is it real? I do not want to wonder if it is real, just why is it fractal regardless of if it is real or not).


What are your thoughts and ideas on this subject?


~Peace, Love, and Light
 
DisEmboDied said:
Why fractals?
Click to expand...
Because Math: http://www.math.utah.edu/~bresslof/publications/01-1.pdf
Enjoy!

Edited to add:
Fractals are to be reasonably expected. In fact I would put forward that fractals would be expected and non-fractal visuals would be the unexpected.

Fractals are literally everywhere in nature. From the super small all the way up to the super clusters and dark matter. Everywhere you look there they are hiding in plain sight right there in nature.

The one that always gets me is the fractals within forests. Do you want to know how much carbon dioxide a forest is sequestering? Cut down one single tree. Then measure the ratio of the trunk to the the number of branches. And the size of the branches to it's branches. That's all fine and dandy, but what? The ratios of branch size and count on that tree predict the sizes of all the other tree trunks in that area.

Arteries and veins in our body are fractal in nature. It only makes sense that 'under the hood' in our brain the neurons are laid out in a fractal way for pattern recognition and the like.
 
OrionFyre said:
Fractals are literally everywhere in nature. From the super small all the way up to the super clusters and dark matter. Everywhere you look there they are hiding in plain sight right there in nature.
Click to expand...
Yesss! I tend to believe this, fractals are everywhere, if you can't see it it doesn't mean it's not there, you just have to find the right "angle" to look. I'd argue that the basic nature of the universe or even of existence is fractal.
You look at a tree and it appears random or chaotic then you take a bit of DMT and the tree takes a new perfect fractal form, maybe it's like how the mind completes an uncomplete picture.
 
I would be more interested to what are the consequences on the awareness of ourselves and the world, when we are to be exposed to fractals in such a condensed and epiphanic way.

Everyone who has taken psychedelics has had their views of trees changed, as Sakkadelic, it goes like "Oh, I can see the order in such things now". Even if it can get out of hand, isn't the movement of human consciousness that of ordering the world, making sense of it?

It is true fractals are everywhere, everything is the same pattern repeating and declining over vast period of time. Becoming aware of the fractals give you the key to all secrets, and then there will be pattern recognition and some more. It's also the birthing point of spiritual feelings: everything is made of the same thing, all of creation is united by some weird principle, there is a "signature".

(had to bring my own Stoned Ape theorem in the mix, sorry ^^)
 
I think a big reason why fractal/geometric patterns are so commonly reported by psychedelic trippers (across time and across cultures and with different psychedelics) is that our brains or neurons have a fractal layout, and we are tuning into this, into our internal [fractal] brain/neuronal architecture when we are tripping the lights fantastic (our brains being constructed in this way in all of us, hence the universality of this experience). Given this, and how ubiquitous they are in the natural world, I think it would be strange if people didn't see fractals while tripping.

FYI:

www.psychologytoday.com

Fractal Brains: Fractal Thoughts

Our brains are fractal, with far-reaching branches.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

Also this:

Our brains are full of fractals! In fact, they couldn't function if not for fractal geometry. The human brain comprises approximately 100 billion neurons. Amazingly, there are about 100 trillion synapses, or connections, among these brain cells. That's an average of 1000 connections for a given cell, though some neurons may only make a single connection, while others may have hundreds of thousands of synapses with cells all over the brain. The axons reach out to make synaptic connections with the dendrites of other neurons. It is the fractal branching pattern of the neuron's axons and dendrites that allows them to communicate with so many other cells. If neurons were shaped like cubes and neatly packed into the brain, one neuron could only connect with at most 6 other cells.
Click to expand...

Fractal Foundation Online Course - Chapter 1 - FRACTALS IN NATURE

fractalfoundation.org fractalfoundation.org
 
I've only had DMT in Ayahuasca-style brews, among other entheogens (mushrooms, HBWR, cacti...) and I can't definitively say I experience the visions or visuals as fractals.

Fractals can be pretty and awe-inspiring and have made it as a 'thing' into group consciousness. Without mathematical scrutiny it's easy to overuse the therm and perhaps extend it to any pretty and amazing kaleidoscopic-like patterns.

It could be that the visuals our brains create in the presence of these molecules either make us classify them as fractals because of the associations we have with pretty patterns, or actually *become* fractals because of those associations and expectations that they create.

Just a thought.
 
Can't honestly say I've ever seen a fractal on any trip that I can remember, be it DMT or anything else, but I have seen things that seem to repeat into infinity, but I don't think they contain the whole and therefore don't count as a fractal.

Perhaps Jagube has a point about creating a fractal after seeing something and having it multiply from a subconscious expectation.

When it comes to DMT my expectations seem not to matter. When I first started smoalking I thought I was going to be influenced by reports of clowns or jesters or elves. Whilst there may have been some influence it feels more like hyperspace has tapped into the information in my brain and toyed with it on it's own terms. I don't think elves, jesters or fractals are an intrinsic part of the experience itself, but something based on the tripper. Some people hardly see entities. I've seen so many I've probably forgotten quite a few but can't recall one single fractal. But then again it's often difficult to remember some experiences in detail...
 
universecannon said:
Why knot?

Our brains/nature are full of them :)
Click to expand...

But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances?
 
Praxis. said:
universecannon said:
Why knot?

Our brains/nature are full of them :)
Click to expand...

But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances?
Click to expand...

Very good question Praxis.

That allows me to segue perfectly into this:

The only phenomenon more ubiquitous in life/our multiverse than fractals is empty space, which comprises the vast majority of everything.

So, I am just as curious, as Praxis is regarding what it is about psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to "see" the infinite fractals embedded in all nature, as to why psychedelics allow us to also "see" that nature is, in fact, mostly empty space.


:| :surprised :oops: :?: :shock: ;) :roll: :? :p 😉
 
Orion said:
Can't honestly say I've ever seen a fractal on any trip that I can remember, be it DMT or anything else, but I have seen things that seem to repeat into infinity, but I don't think they contain the whole and therefore don't count as a fractal.

Perhaps Jagube has a point about creating a fractal after seeing something and having it multiply from a subconscious expectation.

When it comes to DMT my expectations seem not to matter. When I first started smoalking I thought I was going to be influenced by reports of clowns or jesters or elves. Whilst there may have been some influence, it feels more like hyperspace has tapped into the information in my brain and toyed with it, on it's own terms. I don't think elves, jesters or fractals are an intrinsic part of the experience itself, but something based on the tripper. Some people hardly see entities, I've seen so many I've probably forgotten quite a few, but can't recall one single fractal. But then again, it's often difficult to remember some experiences in detail...
Click to expand...

Yeah, this has been my experience/s more or less.

My experiences are fractal in certain aspects, but that's only a thin bit of the totality of the experience when I'm there, especially the deeper you go.. All the aspects of the experience - bodily sensations, the visuals and visions, all the insanely powerful emotional bits, realizations, the entities, every part of the experience - it's all tied in to such a crazy degree ime, and so rapid and everchanging, every part distinct and visually crisp, even with a bit of harmalas it stills got a good amount of speed on it. But really you can't pin it down.. 😁
 
I think the brain sees imagery simmilar to a camera.the brain is firing very fast on the dmt comeup showing you these fractals....using dmt you get a inside veiw of whats going on in your inner mind... on dmt or lsd ect... imagry you can also get visual emotions like seeing sounds and hearing visions .. tasting colors ect...

Salvia in lower doses..also gives repeated images like the many frames on a movie reel...fractals also must be similar to inner mind visions ..their are the stored picture memory frames in your mind...

I think they are cool to experiance especialy when you get colorful 3 or 4 D windows like in DMT visions...

Fractals on comup are normal..
 
I think seeing fractals on dmt may be very similar to the imagry we see at night asleep when we are crossing over in REM sleep about to enter a dream...

In my attemps to lucid dream at night...Ive seen mind fractals.. and heard strange sounds like dogs barking in my room ..[when there are no dogs].. and other sounds high pitched vibrations .or roaring sounds ...or the cross chatter of hundreds of people...or the sound of my grade school teacher teaching class...just before i enter the dream state..

This stuff usually happens just before the dream starts...

So on dmt..its like fractals are just the beginning...just before the break through to a more compleate emersion into a really .. BEING THERE.. experiance compleate wilth aliens or or your long dead relative..

just a theory.
 
Praxis. said:
universecannon said:
Why knot?

Our brains/nature are full of them :)
Click to expand...

But why aren't they an ordinary part of our perception? What is it about the mechanism of action of psychedelics that gives us the opportunity to think and 'see' in fractals, as opposed to other substances?
Click to expand...
As bancopuma said, the brain has a bit of a fractal-like structure. It is not that far-fetched to think that random noise generated by the brain would in some way reflect this way the brain is structured.

Maybe nature often tends toward fractal geometry, but there are also forces that normally would counteract this tendency. For instance, many material stuff doesn't have scale invariance. So scale becomes a factor in how objects are shaped, for instance, elephant have bigger legs in relation to their total size, than insects, wich has to do with the material preperties of the stuff animals are made of.

For information, this probably is far less so. Though scale probably does affect the way we process information in some way.
 
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