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Why hasn't anybody made an ayahuasca analogue with Desmanthus illinoensis?

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From my understanding it seems to contain hordenine and a few unknown alkaloids in addition to DMT and about half as much NMT as DMT.

Is there some risk with orally consumed Desmanthus illinoensis I haven't been able to find? (other than hordenine intoxication) Why aren't there more oral bioassays? Anyways, I just ordered 200 Desmanthus illinoensis seeds which should be here by January 5-13th. Once they are established and whatnot, I would like to try an bioassay with ~approx 100mgs harmalas and see where that puts me.
 
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I hear a lot of people talk about Desmanthus lately. So, your question is one that others have too.

I like that your mind went straight to ordering seeds! That's the spirit :)

Now that you're going to grow it, maybe you can devise experiments to find out what makes the alkaloid content vary? Like, watering, time of year, time of day, weather, etc.

You should probably get yourself a chacruna too, in case the Desmanthus results are disappointing.
 
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Ah, so it is alkaloid variability that is the bottleneck. I'll grow a bunch indoors and a bunch outdoors, I'll harvest after seed and try many oral brews with Peganum harmala. Hopefully the hordenine doesn't make me too uncomfortable. Does anyone have any knowledge of bioassays I can read?
 
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Growing desmanthus indoor is quite difficult in my opinion. Its a good idea to grow it outdoor. You also might want to check out Desmanthus leptolobus which might have a more stable and maybe cleaner profile. There is quite extensive thread here about both.
 
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I am going to germinate a few indoor since it is january and I live in zone 6b and it is current 3C out. But once it warms I'm going to spread the seeds all over my yard and on the fringes of neglected public parks where they'll get watered but won't get weed-whacked.
 
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Quite many people have made aya analogs from Desmanthus or extracted Desmanthus for pharma, bioassays are scattered here and there.
The reason you don't hear about it more is because people would rather just buy strong bark rather than spend years growing weak bark in their garden.
I spent years growing D. leptolobus. The pile of roots was impressive, the alkaloid yield was poor, the alkaloid itself was clearly under half DMT. The alkaloid extraction was maddening! If I ever extract Desmanthus roots again I'll have to engineer a special method to avoid hellish emulsions.
But I took lepto alkaloids with harmine and THH and I'm still alive :lol:

If you grow Desmanthus, soak the seeds in warm water until they swell before planting. If some don't swell you can rub them between sand paper or nick the coating opposite the eye and soak again.
Do not think you can grow them in pots for harvest. Start in pots, perhaps, but grow them in the ground.
 
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Thanks Elrik. I have searched the internet and figured I would do a soak before planting. Thank you for the advice to harvest from ground grown. It seems they prefer sandier well-draining soil. Good to know you didn't die or suffer toxic effects. How many years old were your plants when harvesting?
 
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The good thing about Desmanthus is, you can get seeds in one season and it is frost tolerant to a certain degree. So it is a considerable plant to grow when you live in colder countries and don't want or can source from web. But you need a few years as Elrik described already. Maybe not 7-8 but maybe 2 or 3 if you start with some more plants.
 
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Yeah I was going to do a large amount of plants and do experiments using one year old plants in different soils, 2 year olds in different soils, 3 year.. etc.

Elrik how were the D. leptolobus alkaloids orally in conjunction with harmine & THH?
 
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It felt somewhat 'watered down' in my trial. Like there was less magic than ACRB alkaloids and the 'filler' alkaloid was something I could feel but didn't give heavy body load or anything. I should have dosed higher than I did but yield was low and I used half my yield for that assay.
Some people may like the effect. I'm just not the type to use mild or moderate doses of psychedelics 😉

I have a hard time imagining 1 year old illinoensis or leptolobus being of any practical use, as the amount of root would be so tiny and I think I recall a study that found reduced alkaloid content in year old roots. Two year roots from lots of plants planted closely together may work. If I were going for a trial my goal would be either 3 or 4 years, probably both to compare. If I were growing leptolobus for only 3 years I would grow them in an 8 to 10 cm grid in rows that I could easily reach to the center of from both sides, for weeding. My 7 & 8 year old plants would have been best spaced at 15 cm [I did 20 in that grow].
I only grew illinoensis once, just after college, and I didn't keep notes so my memory is foggy from ~8 years but if I were to grow it next year and found no better advice I'd grow 2-3 year plants spaced 20 cm apart in pairs in double-rows and I'd grow 4+ year plants 30 cm apart in single rows. With that spacing the foliage would interlace but I don't think the roots would crowd each other.
 
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