why is DMT illeagal

[HermeticShaman]

But when did a legal status make a drug any less available? Seriously? Even if it were decriminalized and not sold in stores or what have you, the amount of DMT floating around would probably be relatively the same.

Lots of people say they want to "trip hard", but they get their hands on a substance like DMT and quickly realize they have no idea what they got themselves into. It's not as simple as taking a blotter tab, eating some shrooms, etc. It doesn't have the same recreational appeal, IMO, that other drugs have. The stuff is serious business.

What I think it really boils down to is that DMT and certain other substances can inspire a way of thinking in an individual that can be completely against the grain of the establishment. I don't mean chaotic, ridiculous anarchy, but many users of psychedelics see the frivolousness of the American way of life, the frivolousness of a society driven by nothing but the production and consumption of material goods. And we, as a whole, become completely disenchanted with the way things are. Sometimes, we may startling realizations in these states of mind. And THAT is the "danger" of these substances.

 

[benzyme]

perhaps

but there are also a lot of emotionally unstable people out there,
that have a very difficult time letting go of their sense of self, and
would have a tough time dealing with surreality.
it's probably not the best idea for them to partake in such powerful
consciousness-altering agents. DMT is one of the shorter-acting psychs, but it
got lumped together with the others in the net of the controlled substances act.
most can deal with psychedelics, but media loves to put the spotlight on Darwin award recipients,
and others who cut off their own appendages, walk into random houses and get themselves shot, wander down the street naked, etc.

I enjoy the occaisional conspiracy theory as much as the next guy,
and while we like to romanticize what an eye-opening experience psychedelics give,
some people will always choose to do them for other reasons, and some will try to do foolish things on them in public.

plus, you don't really need a psychedelic drug to wake you up to what's going on, you simply need to pay attention, and exercise critical thinking.

 

[Purges]

What I don't get is why Salvia is legal, and DMT is not. The only reason I can think of is that Salvia can be such an unpleasant experience, it may put people off trying other psychs all together. Most people don't even know what DMT is, and I doubt that would change much with legality, heck, most of my mates have never tried Salvia.

Most people would try DMT once, maybe twice, and be frightened of using it again. I think it only really appeals to very few people. It would be very difficult for anyone to smoke a bowl and then 'do something stupid' IMO...

 

[MalargueZiggy]

What I don't get is why Salvia is legal, and DMT is not. The only reason I can think of is that Salvia can be such an unpleasant experience, it may put people off trying other psychs all together. Most people don't even know what DMT is, and I doubt that would change much with legality, heck, most of my mates have never tried Salvia.

Most people would try DMT once, maybe twice, and be frightened of using it again. I think it only really appeals to very few people. It would be very difficult for anyone to smoke a bowl and then 'do something stupid' IMO...

Purges, as far as I'm aware, it's down to the analogue act, which originated in the states and is the model for Europe as well, whereby they blanket make drugs illegal that are similar to others. Therefore any new phens/trypts/mdma analogues are automatically covered.

Since Salvia is structurally unrelated to other chemicals, they don't have a basis for making it illegal until there's a public outcry. As far as I'm aware, there haven't been any deaths from it yet, so there's no reason or basis for the government to do anything. Just because it's a psychoactive isn't a reason to make it illegal. Obviously you could apply the same principle to phens/trypts that haven't caused deaths but the analogue act takes care of that and allows the government to further their 'anti-drug' philosophy.

But when did a legal status make a drug any less available? Seriously? Even if it were decriminalized and not sold in stores or what have you, the amount of DMT floating around would probably be relatively the same.

HermeticShaman, I think that there would be more DMT around. At the moment, if you want to get hold of DMT then you have to extract it yourself or know someone who extracts it (unless you're lucky and have a source of synthetic stuff which I think is quite rare.).

Now, if you extract it yourself then you will have to research it and get to know it. You'll probably have a few failed attempts and in between these attempts you'll learn more about it. Essentially you won't do it until you're ready for it. I know my friend had to wait years before it all came together, and he realised that this was only a good thing and had he taken it earlier he probably wouldn't have been ready.

If you get it off someone you know who extracts it, then hopefully they will educate you on it. I know there are people who refuse to give it to a newbie, and tell them to go away and extract it themselves. The DMT community is self-regulating for this purpose.

If you made it legal then you could have some joker set up a website, and other ppl buy it off the website and take it.

Now, I'm a libertarian and I support the legalisation of all drugs, but it is a minefield and I'm not saying I like DMT being illegal because I don't like my friend being criminalised for using it, but I do like the self-regulation that exists within 'the scene' at the moment.

 

[Purges]

Ziggy, there has been a death assosciated with Sally: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-08/local/28686445_1_salvia-balcony-smoking - and as far as I know, none with DMT? But yeah, this prohibitionist bullsh*t has to stop, it is holding us back in the dark ages IMHO. DMT has opened up parts of me that were previously very conflicted / negative - my outlook on life / spirituality has been DRASTICALLY changed for the better, just from smoking a very small amount of some magically infused leaves, terrible isn't it?

I feel its positive effect every day, even if none has been smoked for weeks. Society would do well to allow it's citizens free choice to do what they want with their own bodies... You can drive a car on roads packed with other people, you could go skydiving, eat burgers until they come out of your ears, but take a 10 minute break from reality that heals your psyche?! No! WITCHCRAFT! Jail for you, you no good CRIMINAL! Makes me sick. I feel we have very similar views on this subject. Onwe of these days... I hope it will change, but all I see is prohibition spiralling in the most ridiculous manner.

 

[MalargueZiggy]

Ziggy, there has been a death assosciated with Sally: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-08/local/28686445_1_salvia-balcony-smoking - and as far as I know, none with DMT? But yeah, this prohibitionist bullsh*t has to stop, it is holding us back in the dark ages IMHO. DMT has opened up parts of me that were previously very conflicted / negative - my outlook on life / spirituality has been DRASTICALLY changed for the better, just from smoking a very small amount of some magically infused leaves, terrible isn't it?

I feel its positive effect every day, even if none has been smoked for weeks. Society would do well to allow it's citizens free choice to do what they want with their own bodies... You can drive a car on roads packed with other people, you could go skydiving, eat burgers until they come out of your ears, but take a 10 minute break from reality that heals your psyche?! No! WITCHCRAFT! Jail for you, you no good CRIMINAL! Makes me sick. I feel we have very similar views on this subject. Onwe of these days... I hope it will change, but all I see is prohibition spiralling in the most ridiculous manner.

Hey Purges, well put. I've been down pretty much the same road. I can't imagine where I would be now in my life if I hadn't followed that path. A lot less happier that's for sure.

Didn't know about that death, ahh well that'll start the process then. The only saving grace is that America is so disparate that it may take time for a national outcry to emerge. If that was in the UK then one of the tabloids would get hold of it and it'd be banned within months.

A couple of years ago I read a senator's opinion about Sally, and she said that it should be illegal because she "was scared people would smoke it while they were driving."

The level of misinformation and misunderstanding about psychs (and 'drugs' in general) in the world is astonishing. I don't see decriminalisation happening any time soon.

 

[HermeticShaman]

I enjoy the occaisional conspiracy theory as much as the next guy,
and while we like to romanticize what an eye-opening experience psychedelics give,
some people will always choose to do them for other reasons, and some will try to do foolish things on them in public.

plus, you don't really need a psychedelic drug to wake you up to what's going on, you simply need to pay attention, and exercise critical thinking.

Of course they will. And they ruin it for everyone else who understand the true gravity and capability of the experience.

And I agree with you entirely -- psychedelics are in no way necessary to "wake up" to what's going on. I had already come to lots of startling realizations well before I met the spice. The big thing that spice did for me in this case is that it took a lot of the knowledge and philosophy I understood intellectually, and it allowed me to see and confront it in a very intimate way. It's like getting to see something you believe for the first time. Or something.

 

[christian]

DMT is illegal because it is a powerful way of quickly realising what life is really all about. And the govermnent doesn't want you to know this, because then you'd realise that the whole system is based on false fears and lies.

 

[Purges]

Ziggy, there has been a death assosciated with Sally: http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-08/local/28686445_1_salvia-balcony-smoking - and as far as I know, none with DMT? But yeah, this prohibitionist bullsh*t has to stop, it is holding us back in the dark ages IMHO. DMT has opened up parts of me that were previously very conflicted / negative - my outlook on life / spirituality has been DRASTICALLY changed for the better, just from smoking a very small amount of some magically infused leaves, terrible isn't it?

I feel its positive effect every day, even if none has been smoked for weeks. Society would do well to allow it's citizens free choice to do what they want with their own bodies... You can drive a car on roads packed with other people, you could go skydiving, eat burgers until they come out of your ears, but take a 10 minute break from reality that heals your psyche?! No! WITCHCRAFT! Jail for you, you no good CRIMINAL! Makes me sick. I feel we have very similar views on this subject. Onwe of these days... I hope it will change, but all I see is prohibition spiralling in the most ridiculous manner.

Hey Purges, well put. I've been down pretty much the same road. I can't imagine where I would be now in my life if I hadn't followed that path. A lot less happier that's for sure.

Didn't know about that death, ahh well that'll start the process then. The only saving grace is that America is so disparate that it may take time for a national outcry to emerge. If that was in the UK then one of the tabloids would get hold of it and it'd be banned within months.

A couple of years ago I read a senator's opinion about Sally, and she said that it should be illegal because she "was scared people would smoke it while they were driving."

The level of misinformation and misunderstanding about psychs (and 'drugs' in general) in the world is astonishing. I don't see decriminalisation happening any time soon.

Cheers, it's something that frequently rattles round my brain, irritating me no end!

"afraid they would smoke it while driving"?! Like you would even know what a car WAS after a decent hit! Also, how would you rip a bong while actually driving as well? I agree on the UK thing - all it takes is one minor incident for the Daily f*cking Mail to pick up on it and stir up some ridiculous bigotted shit storm.

Psychedelics and weed have opened me up in the most positive way, thank God I ignored all that propaganda I was taught as a kid. Its sad that people in positions of authority with NO knowledge of the substance what so ever can make such brash statements. Do you remember the medical experts who were appointed and then quickly fired after saying that weed and ecstasy were less harmful than tobacco and alcohol? A sad indictment of our times...

 

[dreamer042]

Attempting to 'ban' nature is not only extremely callous and ignorant, it's downright illogical and immoral.

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

 

[damon]

Fear of the unknown. The unpredictable nature of DMT reinforces that. In fact all hallucinogens are very scary stuff for people that don't understand. Those people think even tiny doses can make you see the devil. It's pure ignorance.

 

[Purges]

Attempting to 'ban' nature is not only extremely callous and ignorant, it's downright illogical and immoral.

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Amen to both of these statements.

 

[Nitegazer]

Taking just a bit of a variation on the theme by Sadhakar and Moksha--

I believe the ultimate expression of social control in our post hunter-gatherer society is the capacity to get people to go to war. The leaders who can do that can continue to accumulate power and wealth.

Any drug that makes the population less likely to participate in a war effort is forbidden. That is why the 'war on drugs' began at the height of the Vietnam war era, and is why alcohol, which enhances some violent tendencies, has been able to remain legal, while hallucinogens are perceived as threatening.

 

[MalargueZiggy]

Cheers, it's something that frequently rattles round my brain, irritating me no end!

"afraid they would smoke it while driving"?! Like you would even know what a car WAS after a decent hit! Also, how would you rip a bong while actually driving as well? I agree on the UK thing - all it takes is one minor incident for the Daily f*cking Mail to pick up on it and stir up some ridiculous bigotted shit storm.

Psychedelics and weed have opened me up in the most positive way, thank God I ignored all that propaganda I was taught as a kid. Its sad that people in positions of authority with NO knowledge of the substance what so ever can make such brash statements. Do you remember the medical experts who were appointed and then quickly fired after saying that weed and ecstasy were less harmful than tobacco and alcohol? A sad indictment of our times...

Here's an update on the whole situation in the states -- looks like it's further down the road than I assumed. I like the way it ends with the classic 'believe they can fly' bs.

Course I remember what happened with Prof Nutt. What a travesty! The Labour government knowingly went against professional medical advice in order to further their own agenda. :evil:

The only good thing to come out of that was the fact that my parents said that they believed ecstasy was less harmful than alcohol, which represents a big step forward. Although they are pretty liberal. Paradoxically they're only against drugs because they're illegal... It's a vicious cycle, until I get into power, which is unlikely :roll: