Wundbenzin (Hexane+Pentane) as a solvent for extraction

[letudiante]

Hi,

Recently I've run out of all the VM&P naptha. I've purchased some Wundbenzin, which mainly consists of pentanes and to some degree hexanes, but I've heard that they're primarely used for r-xtls of DMT. Why not extraction? Because of toxicity or weak pulls?

 

[Empyreans]

The question is whether Essigessenz is suitable for extractions, as many guides call for "white distilled vinegar" specifically.
But when mixing Essigessenz with enough water I should have 5% white vinegar.
The brand I have suggests to mix 1 part of Essigessenz with 4 parts of water to obtain 5% vinegar. It should be no problem at all

 

[Ufostrahlen]

The question is whether Essigessenz is suitable for extractions, as many guides call for "white distilled vinegar" specifically.
But when mixing Essigessenz with enough water I should have 5% white vinegar.
The brand I have suggests to mix 1 part of Essigessenz with 4 parts of water to obtain 5% vinegar. It should be no problem at all

Vinegar is a liquid consisting of about 5–20% acetic acid (CH3COOH), water, and other trace chemicals, which may include flavorings.

The term "distilled vinegar" is something of a misnomer when used in the US and North America, because it is not produced by distillation but by fermentation of distilled alcohol. The fermentate is diluted to produce a colorless solution of 5% to 8% acetic acid in water, with a pH of about 2.6. This is variously known as distilled spirit, "virgin" vinegar,[7] or white vinegar, and is used in cooking, baking, meat preservation, and pickling, as well as for medicinal, laboratory, and cleaning purposes.[8]

Vinegar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's why it's better to see the TEK as a recipe and to look behind common household names like vinegar, white spirit, brezellauge, wundbenzin, waschbenzin, essigessenz, naphta (most abused term ever).

I assume you make an A/B extraction and pull with a non polar solvent. My extraction knowledge is a little bit rusty, but you want a pH2-3 for the acidic part and a pH14 for the basic part (90% sure, better get a second opinion for the exact numbers). If you use 2%, 8% or 25% acetic acid, fumaric acid or phosphoric acid doesn't matter, as long as your pH is ~2-3. (95% sure) Lower dilutions make the reaction more controllable. So 2-7% is okay. (98% sure). Of course you are using pH indicator strips (2€ on eBay for your aquarium) and not cooking something up from a TEK without any understanding.

 

[Empyreans]

In the last days I've gathered some understanding of the chemical processes.
I've got everything ready now. One last question, will the DMT be very clean? I'd rather have a full spectrum product with a yellow tint, as I've had better experiences with that.
why is the boiling point important? I thought the crystals form while freeze precipitating?

 

[jiva]

In the last days I've gathered some understanding of the chemical processes.
I've got everything ready now. One last question, will the DMT be very clean? I'd rather have a full spectrum product with a yellow tint, as I've had better experiences with that.
why is the boiling point important? I thought the crystals form while freeze precipitating?

my extractions with Wundbenzin do all have a nice yellow tint.
i had no chance yet to do a analyze but from the effect i'd say it seems to be full spectrum.

a low boiling point will cause the liquid to vaporize easier

 

[Empyreans]

Okay great, thank you

Why does that matter when freeze precipitating?

 

[jiva]

when you pull the evap-dish out of the freezer you can pour away the Wundbenzin (you can re-use it! ), but you will not be able to get every last bit of it.
with a liquid that has got a low boiling point you can have the dish at room temperature and the rest of the liquid will evaporate quickly.

 

[Empyreans]

I'm currently pulling.
The extraction I chose was Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek.

It requires you to mix 50ml Wundbenzin into the basic solution and slightly mix by rolling the mixture.
After you've done that 5 times, you are supposed to pull the Wundbenzin and squirt it into the evap. dish.
When doing this with Naptha there is no chance for it to evaporate (high BP) before another pull gets added on the dish.
I'm worried that the Wundbenzin evaporates before I add the next pull given the lower BP.
Can that happen? I only have 3 dishes for 5 pulls

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I'm worried that the Wundbenzin evaporates before I add the next pull given the lower BP.
Can that happen? I only have 3 dishes for 5 pulls

Aluminum foil. Or glass dish as a cover.

 

[Empyreans]

Would there be a disadvantage if it evaps before the next pull gets on the dish?

Edit: tried the aluminium foil, didn't work. The solvent still evaporated.
I thought about maybe keeping multiple pulls in a closed jar in the refrigerator before emptying these on the dish.

Sorry for filling this thread with newbie questions. I'm glad you guys are helping

 

[jiva]

i just do one pull with about 60ml of hexane and then put it in the freezer.
with the same tek i could do 4 pulls to get almost all the dmt out of one batch with 50g

i do not just roll the base bottle, i really shake it several times over a few houres and then take the hexane out of the base bottle. also i keep it in the freezer for at least 18h

 

[Empyreans]

The extraction was successful and yielded around 800mg yellow DMT. It is pretty harsh to smoke so I decided to recrystalize.
When recrystallizing, you should heat the solvent so the DMT can properly dissolve. How do you approach this when using Wundbenzin? The low BP should make it evaporate quickly from my understanding. Or does it readily dissolve without heating?

 

[jiva]

i tried once to redisolve in wundbenzin. it did not work. or i was not patient enough. i would not heat wundbeinzin as it will evaporate and also the fumes might be a problem.

how do you smoke it? my extract is very smooth to smoke in a VG

 

[Empyreans]

I see..
I smoke through the GVG and have had noticeably smoother dmt.
Maybe Ufostrahlen has an answer, would the Waschbenzin from Obi be a preferable choice for recrystallization?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

I see..
I smoke through the GVG and have had noticeably smoother dmt.
Maybe Ufostrahlen has an answer, would the Waschbenzin from Obi be a preferable choice for recrystallization?

IDK, never had the Obi. Check out https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/w/images/0/09/The_DMT_Handbook_201208.pdf - it should answer most of your questions.

 

[Empyreans]

Thank you for the link.
The pdf describes the procedure of recrystallization which I am aware of. But have you ever recrystallized with Wundbenzin? The low BP should rather be a hindrance when heating the solvent to properly dissolve the DMT. The Naptha usually used around here has a significantly higher BP, just like the Spezial Reinigungsbenzin from Obi. I'll try both in the future, just asking for experience

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Thank you for the link.
The pdf describes the procedure of recrystallization which I am aware of. But have you ever recrystallized with Wundbenzin? The low BP should rather be a hindrance when heating the solvent to properly dissolve the DMT. The Naptha usually used around here has a significantly higher BP, just like the Spezial Reinigungsbenzin from Obi. I'll try both in the future, just asking for experience

If you look at the dielectric constant of various NPS you'll notice they don't differ that much, apart from the BP.

Generally, the dielectric constant of a solvent is an acceptable predictor of the solvent's ability to dissolve common ionic compounds, such as salts.

Solvent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And you don't need to heat your solvent, just put your mixture in a warm water bath. If you call that heating, warm water is enough. Nothing over 45°C. Why I'm not a fan of the Obi solvent: I speculate, it will leave a waxy residue. But that's only speculation. Better buy it and post a report here. And no, I never re-xed anything.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Hello, wanted to chime in here as a newbie, as my questions are similar.

E.g. if Wundbenzin already starts to evap at around 40°C, then any heating would be problematic whatsoever (even as low as 45-50°C). But as it dissolves better when heated, would that mean better taking a solvent with a higher BP?
E.g. I could also get Pet-Ether, Xylene, Toluene, or DCM (surely with a higher "getting effort"/), but in this relation (BP) they would be even worse.
The Obi stuff seems to me a bit inpure, that's why I'm undecided on what to take as the naptha substitute in all the teks...

About the acid part (e.g. in the mentioned salt tek):

I'm also a bit worried about this "white vinegar" used for the first A-Step. As I see it the stuff we have here doesn't seem quite right. I also wonder about impurities in these? So I would probably rather take concentrated Acetic acid (e.g. 95%) and add it. Should also work if I go to target PH like that, or not?

But just out of curiosity would citric acid also work? It's available pure everywhere very cheap. Or would that interfere later in the process?

 

[Ufostrahlen]

Hello, wanted to chime in here as a newbie, as my questions are similar.

E.g. if Wundbenzin already starts to evap at around 40°C, then any heating would be problematic whatsoever (even as low as 45-50°C). But as it dissolves better when heated, would that mean better taking a solvent with a higher BP?
E.g. I could also get Pet-Ether, Xylene, Toluene, or DCM (surely with a higher "getting effort"/), but in this relation (BP) they would be even worse.
The Obi stuff seems to me a bit inpure, that's why I'm undecided on what to take as the naptha substitute in all the teks...

Wundbenzin works fine. True and tested. Obi is cheap, may be impure and I never read anyone using it. But you can try.

About the acid part (e.g. in the mentioned salt tek):

I'm also a bit worried about this "white vinegar" used for the first A-Step. As I see it the stuff we have here doesn't seem quite right. I also wonder about impurities in these? So I would probably rather take concentrated Acetic acid (e.g. 95%) and add it. Should also work if I go to target PH like that, or not?

But just out of curiosity would citric acid also work? It's available pure everywhere very cheap. Or would that interfere later in the process?

You can use citric acid, I don't see why I wouldn't work. You cook up the bark powder and the acid breaks up the cells. But I think acetic acid is stronger. I'm too lazy to look up the specifics. Just grind the bark very fine, let it simmer long with a ph of 2-3. You can let the acid brew sit for a day or two for a better punch. Essigessenz is pure and food grade.