Yet another harmine VS harmaline thread

[Jacubey]

I see all over the nexus people describe harmaline as more potent and dreamy, with more body load. I see people say harmine has much less nausea and is less dreamy. Nobody really elaborates on this.

Below I will track my experiences as I have them. I'd love to hear others as well.

All doses below are oral

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3g peganum harmala seeds (done this on 3 occasions, the effects below happen every time).

Monochrome, almost electric looking visuals. Like images you'd see on an oscilloscope, forming in to random things at first. With a little focus I can make them do what I want. For example, once the visuals became a man simply standing. I began to think "what if I tried to make him dance" and then he began to dance. Then I thought, "now I want him to sit" and he sat, then I thought "now I want it to be a woman" and the man shapeshifted in to a voluptuous woman.

Crazy awesome tracers

Auditory hallucinations, any electric motors (fans) I hear stop making a humming sound, and begin to sound kind of grindy. Whispering sounds (like the wind or actual whispering) become more pronounced, and I think I can make out words that are not there

Dizziness, amplified by laying down or closing my eyes. Laying down and closing my eyes makes me feel like I'm strapped to a helicopter blade or something. Pretty fun as long as I keep my wits about me. It does not increase nausea. Auditory hallucinations amplify the spinning effect

Brain fog, very hard to focus on anything

Fatigue, hard to want to move

Nausea, managable but puking is not out of the question if I don't take it easy

Higher blood pressure

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150mg harmine/harmaline hcl extract (done this twice)

Roughly identical to a 3g peganum harmala dose to me, with significantly reduced nausea and blood pressure.

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200mg harmine fb

Nothing happens, perhaps elevated mood

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250mg harmine fb

Nothing happens, perhaps elevated mood

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My next experiment is 300mg of harmine. I'm trying to determine if harmine is psychedelic at all. Currently it seems like only harmaline is, but maybe I have not dosed high enough.

 

[Sabnock1990]

I'm very experienced with Rue/Harmalas and have taken them on a regular basis pretty much since 2012. Ime, and especially here lately, Harmine is pretty clear, not particularly psychoactive, definitely works as an MAO-A inhibitor and has some other useful properties and health benefits, Harmaline however is where the magick is, it's the strength and power of the Harmalas/Rue, and is by far way more "shamanic" and insightful and teaching and medicinal for me personally than Harmine is. I've tried pure Harmine and Harmine in the form of Caapi, Rue, and Caapi/Rue or Rue+additional Harmine, i've tried pure THH and THH in the form of Caapi, as well as THH mixed with Rue (raw, and dark roast), and while i haven't tried pure Harmaline, i'm very very accustomed to it's effects from Rue as well as Harmaline/Harmine extract, and whatever levels may be in Caapi, and i must say to me it seems like it's Harmaline, and not THH, that's the real magickal compound, but perhaps THH has yet to open up to me or what not, but Harmaline has had way more to offer me throughout my experimentation, though that's not to say that Harmine or THH for that matter don't have their own things to offer, and perhaps they all work best in synergy, but so far i haven't really gotten much out of Harmine or THH, though they may contribute, it seems to be Harmaline that's the show runner for me.

 

[murklan]

... Harmaline however is where the magick is, it's the strength and power of the Harmalas/Rue, and is by far way more "shamanic" and insightful and teaching and medicinal for me personally than Harmine is. I've tried pure Harmine and Harmine in the form of Caapi, Rue, and Caapi/Rue or Rue+additional Harmine, i've tried pure THH and THH in the form of Caapi, as well as THH mixed with Rue (raw, and dark roast),

Would love to read a post from you about those experiences! I'm trying to find my ways in all the combinations. I really like Rue (well maybe not rellay the taste of un-roasted seeds )!

and while i haven't tried pure Harmaline, i'm very very accustomed to it's effects from Rue as well as Harmaline/Harmine extract, and whatever levels may be in Caapi, and i must say to me it seems like it's Harmaline, and not THH, that's the real magickal compound, but perhaps THH has yet to open up to me or what not, but Harmaline has had way more to offer me throughout my experimentation, though that's not to say that Harmine or THH for that matter don't have their own things to offer, and perhaps they all work best in synergy, but so far i haven't really gotten much out of Harmine or THH, though they may contribute, it seems to be Harmaline that's the show runner for me.

I find this really interesting. I find Harmine to be clear and higher dosages potentiating, prolonging and making a DMT journey to come in an out in strong waves. But perhaps not so emotionally engaging. When combined with Harmaline it becomes much more dreamy, un-focused, emotional, reaching other levels. I also suspect that there are differences between whole seeds (roasted an unroasted as tea) an extracted harmine an harmaline. But I cant say how right now, needs to get to know it better.

I've used rue and extractions from it for about 2 years, weekly (with breaks), and I've never been really nauseous. I think I've grown custom to it and/or careful gradually increasing.

 

[L-dreamer]

Harmine all the way for me. I tried rue teas, caapi extracts, and now I am only using harmine and THH powders. Harmaline is way more nauseous and gives me something pretty close to trancey delirium, never using it again not in even in harmine/harmaline 1:1 combinations. As far as I tried, the magic is in THH when you take it with DMT.
As for harmine dosages, 120 orally followed by 50 mg sublingual floored me like hell with tracers even after the 5th hour, and dizziness but no vomiting, No CEV with it, just the urge to sit in the dark, fell asleep between hour 2 and 5 when I woke up (it was night time). Had a mild headache the next day and concentration for work wasn't the best, I definitely over-used it

 

[downwardsfromzero]

A proper, stiff dose of harmaline backed up with a decent amount of harmine - amounts unknown due to re-using multiple measures of previously multiply-brewed seeds all combined - is still something that's nice for me to be reminded of. There was proper depth to it, but for me the best bit was the auditory effects. There was a wonderful 'twanging' like a flangeing effect added on top of various sounds. Turning the pages of a book was really magical to listen to.

With this level of harmaline one does have to be aware of the physical incoordination arising from the sensory input buffering that appears to be responsible for the visual tracers as well as the auditory effects. It can lead to bumping into objects when they (you) fail to stop moving, or to toppling over when you fail to notice in a timely fashion the floor lurching up towards you.

I'll confirm alongside ShamensStamen that regular consumption of harmalas brings about a tolerance that helps one to avoid dizziness and nausea while maintaining the other, desired subjective effects.

 

[ShadedSelf]

This is more of a trip report.

Yesterday I tried a mostly harmaline extract for the first time, I find it to be an incredibly interesting molecule, but I feel like the positive and negative effects might be a bit too close to each other.
The nausea gets really bad and it can feel like you are in a sort of fever dream.
I feel like it might require a bit of effort from you for it to be a worthwhile experience.

Harmaline is childish, energetic, dreamy, unfocused, it is also restful, your mind is both awake and asleep, it might be sligtly delirious.

Harmaline is incredibly physical, "biological", and electric, I could feel the mechanisms of my mind and body as this chain reaction of organic signals.
The visions are very fluid and "thick", like viscous paint making its way through a three dimesional canvas.

The headspace is incredible, so clean, I can have peaceful conversations with diferent parts of myself, get to know them from this fluid and free perspective.
The introspections is really weird but deep, again, everything is very physical and "bodily".
Very easy to untangle your thougth patterns and understand them in very simple ways, very childish and playful.
You can play around with your mind, you can play around with you chemical brain.

I had the wildest dreams, I realized that I was God and I danced under water while enjoying my inability to fall into the ciclical thinking that I am so used to.
Your mind flows free.


Harmaline has a blobby, wobbly, shinny green to me, while harmine is a sharp, ethereal light blue.

No trip report for harmine.
Harmine is focused, clean and transparent.


They have a lot in common, both act as a sort of "brain lubricant" for me, thoughts flow freely and painlessly.
Both are quite physical, and in fact, too much so at higher dosages.

Something that I find interesting about this molecules is that they seem to force you into being in a good state of mind, me being so prone to depression makes this a very unintutive fact to absorb.

 

[Jacubey]

As for harmine dosages, 120 orally followed by 50 mg sublingual floored me like hell with tracers even after the 5th hour, and dizziness but no vomiting, No CEV with it, just the urge to sit in the dark, fell asleep between hour 2 and 5 when I woke up (it was night time). Had a mild headache the next day and concentration for work wasn't the best, I definitely over-used it

This is very interesting. Most people seem to report that harmine has no visual effects (you report tracers). I wonder if some amount of your harmine reverted to harmaline or perhaps you dosed harmaline unknowingly? The dizziness and sleepiness especially make me suspect. I personally have not experienced any appreciable psychedelic effects on harmine alone.

Is there any chance you would repeat your experiment?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

As for harmine dosages, 120 orally followed by 50 mg sublingual floored me like hell with tracers even after the 5th hour, and dizziness but no vomiting, No CEV with it, just the urge to sit in the dark, fell asleep between hour 2 and 5 when I woke up (it was night time). Had a mild headache the next day and concentration for work wasn't the best, I definitely over-used it

This is very interesting. Most people seem to report that harmine has no visual effects (you report tracers). I wonder if some amount of your harmine reverted to harmaline or perhaps you dosed harmaline unknowingly? The dizziness and sleepiness especially make me suspect. I personally have not experienced any appreciable psychedelic effects on harmine alone.

Is there any chance you would repeat your experiment?

It really does sound much more like harmaline effects, although that dose is pretty small - enough so that I wonder about the accuracy of L-dreamers scales. And there's no way that harmine would revert to harmaline without a strong reducing agent. The harmaline must have been there in the first place, or L-dreamer has a distinctly atypical response to harmine.

L-dreamer, what colour fluorescence does your harmine show in a fairly dilute solution? How does it compare with a more concentrated solution?

 

[Jees]

Imho one can go overboard with harmine with little of punishment, but not so with harmaline. My hard limit for harmaline is 100mg freebase. I find no use upping from there, moreover it makes for a (very) hard time.

In the right amounts, I find it a very enriching agent.

 

[ava69]

I found a paper years ago, and I have tried in vain to find it again, that stated experiments on humans using injected harmine, did indeed result in strong visuals and visions...however, these were using injected harmine, not oral. the paper gave all injection dosages and outcomes in volunteers.

I would say just save yourself the trouble, 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine results in hours of dream like visions all in monochrome green (for me) or blue. I've seen palaces, gardens, Atlantis (I zoomed in from high above to the circular city center), bookshelf full of ancient books, world war II famous bomber plane, she teaches you for hours on end...hundreds of visions using just THH alone over the years, one time she took me flying like a bird over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see all the parks and homes with swimming pools below. She also took me flying like a bird in medieval times, I could make out the markets, and street, and women walkiing along the street, I saw all the homes, remarkable. Many of the visions are like watching a movie, animated, not static. Zero nausea or dizziness, no hangover, in fact you feel better the next day then you did the day before. Strong afterglow.