16 Years on Chronic Weed // A Historical Anecdotal Analysis (Plans to Quit)

[Voidmatrix]

How can one know that this sense of self control is real?

Idk if we can know... this is both an epistemic and ontological quandary, but we do the best with the seeming and appearance we have.

You mentioned that you fear that you'll lose control over your feelings of anger without weed, does that mean you are in control?

To an extent yes because I make the choice. It's not an impulse, it's always a consideration. Control is never absolute.

I also wonder if those feelings are, at least in part, exacerbated by weed. Regular use does effect our emotional regulation and how we perceive and respond to things. Is it not possible that some of your feelings might be a heightened response caused by weed?

This is certainly a possibility, but I find it unlikely from my own subjective perspective. If I'm pissed, which is often, and I smoke, I manage it a bit better.

However, your questions kind of only look at this from one end. I'm not a "normal" person, being prone to "heightened" responses prior to ever smoking weed. I am a "highly sensitive person," cannabis helps to navigate the world with said heightened response. Even genetically I'm prone in this way. Cannabis helps dial things back. Then I deal with other mental health struggles as well. I'm not sure how I'm much different than someone on an antidepressant. I prefer cannabis because there's no adjustment period and there's no need to taper, I can change the habit at will. But there's no actual desire to quit...

Also, there's more discussion about anger after I mentioned it. I don't think that's really a concern as much as it is a factor. I am a moderator after all and if my anger was actually problematic I likely wouldn't have such a role and responsibility.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

The anger response people are alluding to I have never experienced. It’s in fact the opposite- my entire life I have struggled with uncontrollable anxiety and I had panic attacks at school when I was a child and would break down crying etc. By the time I was in like grad 3 probly I just stopped and disassociated I figure. I remember it well and how kids would laugh at me, teachers were frustrated and my mom refused to see it as a problem if they suggested I had adhd or autism or?

All of that later on led to anger issues.

Cannabis was the only thing that really snapped me out of it but it wasn’t until I was 19 years old.

By the time I was 22 an auto immune disease was already ruining my life. That’s when I quit weed for a year because people in my life kept suggesting I had a problem. After a year I only smoked occasionally until I was 29 years old. I can honestly say I did not experience these great benefits of quitting but that’s probly because it was keeping my auto immune disease(and maybe anxiety/Asperger’s or who knows) somewhat at bay. When I would smoke my body would actually relax and I would notice how much I would sleep compared to the broken sleep I was getting.

One big thing that happened when I stopped is my colon began to bleed. I’m not saying it’s connected but that is when I first began to show more real symptoms of ulcerative colitis. I never got to the stage where it happened a lot but I can say pretty much it also stopped as I began smoking a lot again. I also added in a lot of other herbs at that time and was working with a naturopath so mostly I think it was everything that stopped it.

I think it’s hard for most people who aren’t dealing with something like MS or lupus etc to fully understand how beneficial cannabis is for some people. A lot of depression, anxiety, ocd etc…it’s chronic inflammation in the brain and it’s been liked to other diseases like arthritis, crohns…even autism often occurs with chronic neuro inflammation.

For some people weed probly is a huge stabilizing force in their life, and maybe not so much for others. It’s going to be hard to make that judgement from the outside.

 

[Voidmatrix]

The anger response people are alluding to I have never experienced. It’s in fact the opposite- my entire life I have struggled with uncontrollable anxiety and I had panic attacks at school when I was a child and would break down crying etc. By the time I was in like grad 3 probly I just stopped and disassociated I figure. I remember it well and how kids would laugh at me, teachers were frustrated and my mom refused to see it as a problem if they suggested I had adhd or autism or?

All of that later on led to anger issues.

Cannabis was the only thing that really snapped me out of it but it wasn’t until I was 19 years old.

By the time I was 22 an auto immune disease was already ruining my life. That’s when I quit weed for a year because people in my life kept suggesting I had a problem. After a year I only smoked occasionally until I was 29 years old. I can honestly say I did not experience these great benefits of quitting but that’s probly because it was keeping my auto immune disease(and maybe anxiety/Asperger’s or who knows) somewhat at bay. When I would smoke my body would actually relax and I would notice how much I would sleep compared to the broken sleep I was getting.

One big thing that happened when I stopped is my colon began to bleed. I’m not saying it’s connected but that is when I first began to show more real symptoms of ulcerative colitis. I never got to the stage where it happened a lot but I can say pretty much it also stopped as I began smoking a lot again. I also added in a lot of other herbs at that time and was working with a naturopath so mostly I think it was everything that stopped it.

I think it’s hard for most people who aren’t dealing with something like MS or lupus etc to fully understand how beneficial cannabis is for some people. A lot of depression, anxiety, ocd etc…it’s chronic inflammation in the brain and it’s been liked to other diseases like arthritis, crohns…even autism often occurs with chronic neuro inflammation.

For some people weed probly is a huge stabilizing force in their life, and maybe not so much for others. It’s going to be hard to make that judgement from the outside.

Your responses are so helpful man.

One love

 

[Jan e Kharabat]

Putting aside all the philosophical questions, we can, in a practical sense, test ourselves, quit and see how it goes. Perhaps you don't need to, and perhaps you are one of those people for whom the benefits clearly outweigh the drawbacks, but considering that this is often not the case, we ought to reflect on what statements like "I am in control, I can quit whenever I want" usually mean. People with serious addiction issues, who actually do suffer from their addiction, often say stuff like that. In their case, we usually say it's not true, that they are not in control and that they cannot quit if they want. The issue is complex, what exactly does dialing back mean, does this dialing back function in the same way in the long run, is this dialing back even good in the long run, many such questions ought to be considered.
But putting it all aside, I think when it comes to cannabis, which is increasingly seen as a harmless drug, we ought to be careful and give our due focus to the many harms it can bring to those who dive in unknowingly. Exceptions are exceptions, not to be invalidated, but also not to be considered the norm.

 

[Voidmatrix]

"I am in control, I can quit whenever I want"

This is why I specifically said I can change the habit: quitting means there is no habit. And then i followed with I don't want to quit. I am very aware of this phenomenon in addicts of asserting control in a delusional sense. It would be hard to test it if there is no desire to do so. An addict can have a desire to quit and be unable to.

And yeah, nothing is harmless, not even water.

One love

 

[Panpsychic]

This is certainly a possibility, but I find it unlikely from my own subjective perspective. If I'm pissed, which is often, and I smoke, I manage it a bit better.

However, your questions kind of only look at this from one end. I'm not a "normal" person, being prone to "heightened" responses prior to ever smoking weed. I am a "highly sensitive person," cannabis helps to navigate the world with said heightened response. Even genetically I'm prone in this way. Cannabis helps dial things back. Then I deal with other mental health struggles as well. I'm not sure how I'm much different than someone on an antidepressant. I prefer cannabis because there's no adjustment period and there's no need to taper, I can change the habit at will. But there's no actual desire to quit...

Did you actually ever try to quit? Its hard to say that one could "stop any time' unless one actually did so, which is why people are suspicious of such statements which although can be true for some, oftentimes are the excuses heard from the addicted. This is where other layers of justification come in, for example "I need cannabis for x purpose..."

It may indeed be of benefit but at the same time is that really true or are there other means to achieve that end, and are there other motivations or addictions at play and this is just another way the mind rationalizes an addictive habit? Addiction and chronic habit formation is a tricky customer and requires great honesty and self observation to fully see sometimes.

I knew for example you were a cannabis user before ever seeing you post about it, from recognizing the unmistakable cannabis use pattern in the way and frequency you talked about smoking changa. Again, I'm not saying thats a bad thing in itself necessarily but the character of cannabis use undoubtedly rewires the brain in affecting other areas and substances that are used.

I say this as someone who has never felt better being close to 15 years free of previous daily heavy cannabis use which was really overall a bane to my life in retrospect but I hear of many who use CBD oil for pain relief etc but thats something totally different from waking and baking or being a stoner.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I just reread what I wrote above and the vibe isn't what I meant (I answered while getting ready for the gym, and my morning anxiety gave me a vicious itch to get there).

My bad

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Its hard to say that one could "stop any time' unless one actually did so, which is why people are suspicious of such statements which although can be true for some, oftentimes are the excuses heard from the addicted. This is where other layers of justification come in, for example "I need cannabis for x purpose..."

See post #25

I knew for example you were a cannabis user before ever seeing you post about it, from recognizing the unmistakable cannabis use pattern in the way and frequency you talked about smoking changa. Again, I'm not saying thats a bad thing in itself necessarily but the character of cannabis use undoubtedly rewires the brain in affecting other areas and substances that are used.

Because I smoalk lots and lots of changa you  knew I was a cannabis user?

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Regardless, it's like the little rasta in me smokes to stay in line... All the same, I am going to stay curious about my relationship to cannabis and augment honestly and accordingly. Much love for the conversation of the thread.

It may indeed be of benefit but at the same time is that really true or are there other means to achieve that end, and are there other motivations or addictions at play and this is just another way the mind rationalizes an addictive habit? Addiction and chronic habit formation is a tricky customer and requires great honesty and self observation to fully see sometimes.

One love

 

[Panpsychic]

Because I smoalk lots and lots of changa you  knew I was a cannabis user?

One love

In a word, yes.

The frequency and form of changa use you reported was not so typical for changa use usually and more reminiscent to me of a stoner.

 

[Voidmatrix]

In a word, yes.

The frequency and form of changa use you reported was not so typical for changa use usually and more reminiscent to me of a stoner.

Gotcha, I can see some parallels, but mmm, it's hard without a more broad lens on users. It's easier to come across a cannabis user than a changa user, so it's likely that someone who has used changa has also used cannabis.

Granted, I don't know anyone personally who smoalks moar DMT or changa than me (that's not a brag or said eith pride), but i know plenty of people who smoalk moar cannabis than I do

So I can see how you can have such an anecdotal inkling about my cannabis use.

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Gotta say, I'm pretty sharp for being an obvious stoner.

One thing I feel like we're ignoring is preference. I prefer being altered in my life. I have yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary that can also apply to me.

I am certainly not lazy or unmotivated as I am in recover from both burnout and overtraining, so the argument about it attacking motivation... I threw it on the ground.

We're kind sensationalizing the sober state, but man has been altering consciousness since it's inception. Bear in mind, for a long time people were altered daily due to light beer because clean water wasn't always available. I'm not saying it's healthy to drink like that, I'm highlighting the altered state.

I'd love to hear what Shulgin would say, since for him, you could classify almost any molecule with pharmacodynamics and kinetics in an organism as a drug. And to him, addiction is addiction when use becomes a problem, or feel you can't stop and it's a problem.

I have not said that I can or can't stop. I've pretty much said I don't know and don't care to find out at this time. I can however shift the habit, because I do that regularly.

I say all this sober

One love

 

[blig-blug]

One thing I feel like we're ignoring is preference. I prefer being altered in my life. I have yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary that can also apply to me.

Most people tend to assume that their preferences are universally and objectively better, and that any person deviating from them must be somehow defective. Not that many people are at peace with the idea that the way they live their life could be a good one among many. That what they value the most may not be valued the same by other people. This has gotten us where we are in many, many different aspects of history and society.

People who at some point have a strong shift in preferences or their way of life tend to be even more zealous than normal, in a very similar way as to how converts to a religion are often much more zealous and even fanatical than people who have grown up in that religion. The zeal of the convert.

You hold a job and clearly driven, motivated, and sharp-minded. Even if it turns out you are addicted, the tradeoff may be perfectly worth it for you. I don't think you need to explain yourself here.

It is of course always a good exercise to question oneself and consider if one may be misleading or deceiving oneself. But that has to come from oneself to be worth anything, external pressure is more likely to reinforce any self-deception that may be going on.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Most people tend to assume that their preferences are universally and objectively better, and that any person deviating from them must be somehow defective. Not that many people are at peace with the idea that the way they live their life could be a good one among many. That what they value the most may not be valued the same by other people. This has gotten us where we are in many, many different aspects of history and society.

Yep, it's quite silly and rather narrow minded (but people can't really be blamed for it)... It's putting the cart before the horse because it's more logical and reasonable to extend understanding to the other before applying what works subjectively for you onto them. Story of my life... It's also damaging as it gets in the way of people finding what's right for them... Story of my life...

You hold a job and clearly driven, motivated, and sharp-minded. Even if it turns out you are addicted, the tradeoff may be perfectly worth it for you. I don't think you need to explain yourself here.

I appreciate you. I suppose I am trying to add understanding to outliers, since I may be an outlier in this regard.

It is of course always a good exercise to question oneself and consider if one may be misleading or deceiving oneself. But that has to come from oneself to be worth anything, external pressure is more likely to reinforce any self-deception that may be going on.

I completely agree. One of the reasons I am in this thread. I said somewhere else before that if you're going to be a heavy psychedelic user, one must be that much more mindful. For me, cannabis is no exception.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

Addiction is already a loaded term. 15 years ago I would have been called a pothead. Now it’s “cannabis use disorder”. Is it a disorder though? If not why?

It’s very clear to me the negative stigma being attached to anyone who uses it more often. Comparing it to alcoholics or heroin users is silly enough to not take that seriously. Anyone who has lived for any time under the roof of a real alcoholic will probly say as much.

Part of it might be true, but part of it also seems to be just more of a guilt trip others are pushing because of fears or experiences that they own. It does not mean it’s my experience or that you can suddenly tell if some is a stoner or not by how they smoke changa. This is all borderline absurd and probly outright offensive to some people.

 

[Voidmatrix]

There's a reason I'm still dancing in this thread

Addiction is already a loaded term. 15 years ago I would have been called a pothead. Now it’s “cannabis use disorder”. Is it a disorder though? If not why?

I am addicted to nicotine. Otherwise I like what I like and there are some things that I like on repeat. This includes movies like the the Alien Franchise, Avatar, A Clockwork Orange, activities like going to the gym, reading, making music, writing, sudoku, and having cannabis and psychedelics in my system

To be clear, I am weirdo who has made an explicit life goal, one of many, to smoalk a lot of DMT. Like hotdamn, am I on point on microdose days, when a little cannabis is involved. I'm more eidetic, enter more flow states, have a better mood, exist a bit more pleasantly.

Is it because I'm an addict or because I really really enjoy and value some altered state and that, like most humans, I feel good giving myself what fits my preference and desire.

Let me also say, if I got pissed off and there was no weed around... I'd be fine. It would just be easier if I were high, and that's usually because the intensity is dialed down, making it easier to think more clearly in the moment. Growing up, when my dad would yell at me, which was often, I would just blank out. Not only was I trying to process concepts that were beyond me, because he was an asshole like that with his expectations, but the yelling made me dissociate, not knowing what to say and just beginning to cry, then getting castigated for crying.

Did I mention I have PTSD This is why it's hard for me to say yes I am an addict or no I am not. My use is very functional. And because it's functional, the desire isn't present and I am not really that curious to find out if I am an addict or not (at this point I just assume that most of you feel I am, which is okay, I'm still going to stand by being on the fence about it).

Ooooohhh this thread is funny.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

Oh the term means nothing to me personally I’m past that.I am addicted to cannabis…I just do not care. I’m addicted to sunshine, healthy food, surfing, the ocean, my wife and lots of other things. It’s fine. Only you can determine entirely if something is good for you. It does not matter what other people think. Arguing semantics here is also useless ime. Accept peoples definitions and move on because it doesn’t mean anything unless you care.

If you let that part go, then who cares? Who cares? It doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything at all.

 

[Panpsychic]

One thing I feel like we're ignoring is preference. I prefer being altered in my life. I have yet to hear a convincing argument to the contrary that can also apply to me.

I am certainly not lazy or unmotivated as I am in recover from both burnout and overtraining, so the argument about it attacking motivation... I threw it on the ground.

We're kind sensationalizing the sober state, but man has been altering consciousness since it's inception. Bear in mind, for a long time people were altered daily due to light beer because clean water wasn't always available. I'm not saying it's healthy to drink like that, I'm highlighting the altered state.

Actually I think this is more of a myth, as people in the medieval era did have access to fresh water from rivers and wells so primarily drank water most of the time. Low Alcohol content beer was more of a source of carbs, and likewise even to get drunk was harder as high alcohol content drinks were more rare.

Regardless, I dont think you have to reach for historical validation for the idea of being 'usually in an altered state of consciousness'. It's your perspective currently, and in fact I recall similar reasoning when I was a stoner of "if I don't have anything much on, theres no point not being stoned".
The sober state will always be the reference because its the baseline and most effective for a carrying out much of whats necessary for daily functioning and development.

Granted, I was not so productive as you seem to be with frequent use and while it can be like that, for many or even the majority from what I have seen over the years high cannabis use doesnt tend toward that but its definitely possible. Its also, for me, somewhat diametrically opposite to the clear state of consciousness that Changa evokes which is why going deeper into that has taken me further from the cannabis induced state.

It is good though to question ones motives and intentions since by their very nature, a lot of what is unconscious is just that. Which is why I mentioned the correspondences I observed in your Changa use to more typical cannabis use; it may have been a seamless movement but to me this is one state or drug use influencing the use of another longitudinally. This may not be intrinsically good or bad, however its worth noting and for me I like to separate out the effects and usage of the substance in itself as it presents to me.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Arguing semantics here is also useless ime.

I understand but...

I’m addicted to sunshine, healthy food, surfing, the ocean, my wife and lots of other things. It’s fine. Only you can determine entirely if something is good for you. It does not matter what other people think.

Let's be real, are these really addictions (which is what I was trying to highlight by my functional spiel)?

Arguing semantics here is also useless ime. Accept peoples definitions and move on because it doesn’t mean anything unless you care.

Think about my position in the discussion presently. We use words to convey ideas. While in a certain sense, yes, people can make up their own definitions for things, sometimes when using terms in certain ways (like addiction in this thread) a consensus must be had on a definition if understanding is to move forward.

Now, I hope no one thinks I am upset or defensive. I am actually high right now enjoying the conversation

If you let that part go, then who cares? Who cares?

Oh certainly I can let it go and do, hence why I still smoke based on my own considerations, but sometimes one has to deal with the nonsense from others based on what they may be thinking. I care about the nonsense I may have to deal with (and sometimes do).

Actually I think this is more of a myth, as people in the medieval era did have access to fresh water from rivers and wells so primarily drank water most of the time. Low Alcohol content beer was more of a source of carbs, and likewise even to get drunk was harder as high alcohol content drinks were more rare.

Yes, historically people, especially in medieval times and the American colonies, drank "small beer," a low-alcohol beer, as a safer alternative to water that may have been contaminated
. While water was often available, small beer provided hydration and calories, and children were even allowed to drink it.

• "Small beer" was a staple: Throughout Britain, a mildly alcoholic "small beer" was brewed and consumed because drinking water was often unsafe. It was a source of hydration and nutrition and was even consumed in households, workplaces, and schools.
• Lower alcohol content: Typically brewed to around 2.8% ABV, this beverage was considered safe enough for children to drink because it was safer than contaminated water.
• Used in Colonial America: Settlers in Colonial America also embraced small beer, often brewed from the spent grain of stronger beers, and considered it a safe drink, especially for children.
• A common source of calories: Historically, many people, including laborers, drank low-alcohol beer or wine to get calories and hydration during hard work, not necessarily to get drunk.

sorry have to continue in another response.

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

'usually in an altered state of consciousness'.

I said "daily" which I wouldn't interpret as usually, but that's just me.

Granted, I was not so productive as you seem to be with frequent use and while it can be like that

What if I told you that, while I can go about my day getting things done just fine, it's more seamless when a little cannabis is in my system? [Weird note: As I wrote that sentence I had a weird moment of deja vu of deja vu.]

Its also, for me, somewhat diametrically opposite to the clear state of consciousness that Changa evokes which is why going deeper into that has taken me further from the cannabis induced state.

I couple them and come out refreshed. My favorite way to enjoy freebase alone is the sandwich method

Which is why I mentioned the correspondences I observed in your Changa use to more typical cannabis use; it may have been a seamless movement but to me this is one state or drug use influencing the use of another longitudinally.

What really influence my changa use was two-fold. My perception that there were some that were able to get away with bouts of regularity and, as you are familiar with my friend, the call. There was a period where the frequency of it increased. Even if I didn't feel like it or want to. I don't have to answer, and I don't always, but when it calls and I do, oh boy...

I am paranoid and neurotic (I'm learning these terms are harsh, so I don't mean them as much anymore, but I do find them funny), I am always questioning my use of EVERYTHING!

One love