Research 2020 Bufotenine Extraction TEK + Analytical Data

[Woolmer]

Is there an idea of what the unpolar alkaloids are that are retrieved after FASA in step 4?

 

[_Trip_]

Not really, you'll pull fats and likely flavournoids, the only literature I have found mentioned flavournoids but I couldn't tell you if they are polar or nonpolar. With EA or acetone pulls You'll have polar alkaloids as well (hence the bufo). You could have traces of 5-meo and nn-dmt but heating the seeds on a pan at the start should destroy these compounds.

These flavournoids are found in leaves and bark according to the wiki page likely found in seeds too (unsure if they are polar or not):
Isoorientin (leaves)
Isovitexin (leaves)
Leucopelargogidin (bark) (pods)
Orientin (leaves)
Vitexin (leaves)

 

[endlessness]

_Trip_ , those are definitely polar compounds, check out their molecular structure, they have many OH groups. Oxygen is an electronegative element which draws electron density away from other less electronegative elements that are covalently bonded to it (for example carbon and hydrogen). This leaves the other elements with a partially positive charge and the oxygen with a partially negative charge, two poles.


At the same time, you don't have any hydrophobic (non-polar) tail in those flavonoids, which would be composed of only carbon and hydrogen (hydrocarbon). Carbon and hydrogen only have a small difference in electronegativity (under 0.5), so do not create partial negative and positive charges within the molecule. If you look at non-polar molecules like pentane hexane etc you'll see they don't have electronegative elements.

Soap molecules have both hydrophobic tail and a hydrophilic (polar) head, which is why it helps oils mixing with water and being washed away.

Now a question for the experts, why is THC mostly non-polar even though it has an OH group and an oxygen? Is it because the hydrophobic tail is more exposed therefore it has more interaction with non-polar solvents, while the more polar OH and O are stericly hindered due to being "surrounded" by other carbon and hydrogens and therefore don't interact much with polar solvents?



Now back to bufotenine/yopo subject: Brennendes Wasser, you talk several times about other alkaloids, polar alkaloids being removed, etc. Do you have any evidence of those alkaloids being there at all, for example analyzing the results that are left behind after step 5?

 

[_Trip_]

Thanks endlessness that's interesting to know. I definitely need to brush up on my chemistry once i finish with my current field of study.

 

[_Trip_]

Just wanted to add,
I tried to pull more bufo from my spent seeds recently (based off previous yields there should have still been some left in there), now I decided to use D-limonene which BW data indicates it works (at boiling) I just heated in a water bath. But decided to salt it out with benzoic acid. It seems to have been successful. The crystals are very, very fine and white. This could be a better and more selective alternative to citrate or fumarate goo/ gum. The benzoate crystals are almost mist like but are starting to stick to the jar. However, it may not be practical to filter or decant. But I think it could have potential and may be adaptable to a quicker tek more like the CIELO. I'll leave it a bit longer to see if larger crystals form. It may not form larger crystals due to using spent seeds and small amounts in the solvent.

Unfortunately I am out of seeds to experiment with.

I should note it may not be bufo crashing out but I gather it is a good chance at this stage.

The problem is that bufo is insoluble in limo at room temp but soluble in boiling limo, I didn't heat mine to boiling temperatures so I am unsure if this is bufo. It depends on if FB bufo is soluble in heated limo below boiling temperatures. BW's and 69Ron both have different data on bufo in limo.

 

[Woolmer]

What yield did you get from the spent seeds?

 

[_Trip_]

I'm still seeing if the crystals grow, it's low yield looking at the limo but seeds have been used. Crystals are growing slowly.

Do you mean in total, including previous pulls?

 

[Woolmer]

Sorry yes, I meant rather the total yield.

 

[Woolmer]

...now I decided to use D-limonene which BW data indicates it works (at boiling) I just heated in a water bath. But decided to salt it out with benzoic acid. This could be a better and more selective alternative to citrate or fumarate goo/ gum.

I might try this, doing the initial pulls with EA instead of acetone and using limonene for the latter cleanup as I do not want to boil xylene. Why did you decide to use benzoic acid? Do you not suppose fumaric or citric could still form crystals?

Also, when initially salting the EA, did you add a fumaric/citric saturated EA solution or did you just directly add the fumaric/citric granules

 

[_Trip_]

Woolmer, I believe limo works. However when BW mentions limo it's unclear if he meant boiling limo or if limos ability to pull is based of a log of higher temperatures absorb more. 69Rons results were different. So if you are going to try it go with heated limo using a heat bath at least.
Based off what I have observed I think heated limo works to a limted degree. Boiling would work much better.

I used benzoic acid because it works well for dmt in limo. I have avoided citrate as dmt citrate forms a goo and it appears 5HO citrate does too.

I believe I directly added them and stirred. However, I powderize my granules.

I wish I had more materials to test. Other acids could work with limo.
Sorry for the short response I am limited on time at the moment.

Edit Limo must be boiling for this to work not reccommended. If used warm, minimal crystals will form.

 

[_Trip_]

Woolmer, I'm looking to bioassay the small amount of 'bufo benzoate' I believe I pulled soon just to confirm its active.

If you give it ago it may be as simple as:
-heat seeds in pan (to destroy impurities, DMT and 5meo traces).
-grind up the seeds
-make a sodium carb paste
-dry it
(-maybe defat with naphtha or room temp xylene maybe?)
-pull with heated limo
-salt with benzoic acid
-filter (and clean with fresh limo or maybe EA?)
-dry and collect

This will depend on how well limo pulls however.
But it leaves the door open to other solvents and benzoic acid combinations if this is indeed active.

 

[Woolmer]

Unfortunately, I cannot source benzoic acid at the moment. I might still try other salts with limonene though once I get the time.

 

[_Trip_]

Unfortunately, I cannot source benzoic acid at the moment.

Usually sodium benzoate can be found and you can very easily convert that to benzoic acid with distilled water and HCl, I believe.

So I gave my genie a nice clean out with hot IPA x3. Once dry of IPA. I tested 4mg of bufo benzoate via the vapor genie. It had a weird taste but way less harsh than my bufo freebase I have previously vaped. It was very easy to vape.

Definitely appeared to be active. I vaped it slow. Light visual tears/ tracers (nothing significant) and typical tryptamine bodyload which lasted a while (typical of that tingly bufo body load but not as intense- may have been less intense due to lower dose). I thought I gave my genie a real good clean but can't rule out that some of these effects may have been placebo and or residue DMT from previous sessions. Actually I can probably rule out placebo body load was too heavy.

I don't think I'll test anymore via vaping as unsure how heavy bufo benzoate is on the lungs and health.

I would think this still needs further testing to confirm bufo benzoate.

There is still the question of how efficient limo pulls too. I'm think perhaps more experimenting with a better solvent is needed. It seems it needs to be boiling for limo to dissolve bufo according to BW an 69Ron's previous experiments. I only used water bath heat limo and yielded very low results <25mg, i thought it was due to spent seeds now I'm thinking after reading some forum threads, limo needs to be seriously heated for this to work well.

 

[Loveall]

E-juice could be an option if the bufo benzoate candidate dissolves in PG.

Nicotine benzoate salts are used commercially in e-juice. Doesn't guarantee safety, but it is a lot of people vaping benzoate daily.

NICOTINE BENZOATE (1:1)
Information for formulators – Vaporises at lower temperatures, low pH and better nicotine absorption. Specifically, nicotine benzoate appears to reduce, mask or neutralize the taste of the nicotine. In research (Li et al), nicotine benzoate was shown to have the best properties in taste, reduction of throat irritation and maintenance of nicotine stability. Near neutral pH with a soft throat hit. Our most popular salt. (pH value 6.2 ±0.5).

Information for vapers – Nicotine benzoate was one of the first nicotine salt to hit the mass market helping to create the nicotine salt buzz. Our test panels noted that it was very smooth to vape while offering a rapid and notable nicotine hit

 

[_Trip_]

I did think about that Loveall but I don't have PG or a suitable vape. Bufo benzoate seemed a lot less harsh than freebase I must say (could have been a previous purity issue with the FB).

If I can get more seeds I'll definitely come back to working on this potential bufo benzoate tek.

Would like more information from BW on limo and bufo solubility scale.

Perhaps a better solvent could be tested.

Edit: bufo benzoate seems to be forming in acetone nice larger crystals although red in appearance, this may be more selective.

 

[famine]

I love the analysis and experimental data you release. A true chemist you are. One can synthesize bufotenine in high yields from 4-aminophenol.

I also recommend you to make 5-EtO-DMT from 4-ethoxyaniline. I am experimenting with it quite abit recently and it is wonderful! Only bioassayed <5mg vaporised dosages but it seems like a long acting 5-MeO-DMT. Active orally too.

 

[_Trip_]

So I found an old jar of acetone that I used to pull on "spent" seeds, after a thorough defat. Unlike the previous photo I posted this one has clear clean crystals, meaning defatting would be ideal for purer crystals.

I used benzoic acid and once again beautiful bufo-benzoate appeared to have formed.


I really think this tek could be shortened by using acetone and benzoic to crash out bufotenine.
There also maybe a chance bufo benzoate can be smoked, anecdotally it is smoother to smoke than bufo FB. As stated previously, if it is soluble in PG it could be used to vape as an e-juice.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

That looks like great crystals

But you said also before a Naphtha defat was needed. So which part would you short then?

1. Naphtha defat
2. Aceton extraction
3. Crash out with Benzoic acid

Now the TEK speaks of Fumaric Acid as most members may have this instead, but then until here it would be the same amount of steps I guess? Anyhow benzoic now to me seems cooler for just about any purpose of previously used Fumaric Acid

- just as non-hygroscopic
- much more soluble in acetone
- Most importantly: Much easier to give a definite ratio, as it will crash out 1x Cation instead of 1-2x

 

[Loveall]

That looks like great crystals

But you said also before a Naphtha defat was needed. So which part would you short then?

1. Naphtha defat
2. Aceton extraction
3. Crash out with Benzoic acid

Now the TEK speaks of Fumaric Acid as most members may have this instead, but then until here it would be the same amount of steps I guess? Anyhow benzoic now to me seems cooler for just about any purpose of previously used Fumaric Acid

- just as non-hygroscopic
- much more soluble in acetone
- Most importantly: Much easier to give a definite ratio, as it will crash out 1x Cation instead of 1-2x

Benzoic acid is also directly soluble in naphtha, so no need to use smellier toluene or need to make a separate FASA solution. Benzoic acid is great for lazy hippies and easy to order

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Benzoic acid is also directly soluble in naphtha

Oh wow that is interesting - I never bothered trying but seems like it is just made for this

The only downside would be the total mass of DMT in the salt would be quite lower than regarding DMT fumarate, but I guess it is not a problem for most cases? Especially not for any Extraction / Conversion / whatever.