So I gave this substance another go for vaping, after my initial experiment in 2020 felt rather sick.
Reason was I recrystallized some recent Bufo twice to get more beautiful crystals. Therefore (even though being slightly tan due to red shift absorption compared to DMT) it is now free of
that 2 % impurity. That encouraged me to just try it once again ... even though the whole composition is basically the same.
Back then:
> Super harsh to the lungs (I'm non smoker otherwise, count that in too)
> roasted nuts smell, enjoyable diffused, but concentrated its nasty
> super strong vasoconstriction, forehead and hands feel numb and cold ... unpleasant!
> nausea
Also ate 100 mg Bufotenin + 200 mg Harmalas. Effect was more underwhelming, probably poor absorption like most drugs. More like 1 g Mushrooms but with a decent nausea.
So now I weighted 10 mg and tried to vape with
this thing but put 2x new lego plates below so total distance to flame was 6 mm less. For spice it works like a charm, so with that low distance more I probably hit the 240 °C just fine and will not overshoot to 300+ which would cause harsh vapor ...
Then loaded 5 mg and vaped - barely could hold the vapor for 3 seconds and it was not even the full 5 mg. Tried another rip and so on.
Got some effects, but wasted most of the 5 mg. Threw in the other 5 mg and it ended the same.
In total maybe 3 mg vaporized. Now for that really low amount there is still at least some remarkable effect.
- slightly distorted colors and patterns in low light, but maybe comparable to 3-5 mg DMT
- body high was very present
- serotonergic effects / vasoconstriction also came on rapidly,
but it was much less unpleasant like last time. Just a little tingling in fingers with no freeze/shaking effect
- no nausea
- absolute absence of that roasted-nuts smell
So in total that effect was weak, but my (estimated) 3 mg dose is also quite low. Still, compare that to a 3 mg 5-MeO vape. I have not tried it so far and it is not really visual at all, but will give quite a big buzz at 3 mg only.
Still it's a little remarkable that any side effect was more on the gentle scale this time. Anyways this is not helping anything as I can hardly vaporize 2 mg (probably). Therefore that seems like the only barrier for me now, with vasocontriction effects being quite on a tolerable level. No nausea and that roasted nuts vapor is quite a good thing, but at least for #1 it may also be linked to the low dose. Anyhow my last trial was probably also that low, but still with some nausea, so it may (partially) be linked to that 2 % contamination during that time. Therefore from the effect itself it might be not a problematic substance as I thought before, but ingestion is more of a problem. Going down straight your mouth in a pill also seems not rewarding. Did it also because I want to compare with 5-AcO-DMT soon.
Kind of underwhelming, but now at least I have some interesting Hypothesis:
Some of the Bufotenin-Pyrolysis products also vaporize and give a big irritation to the lungs. :thumb_dow Most likely they are indeed oligomerization products similar to Psilocin as discussed
here, but obviously only a 5,5-position aka ortho coupled pathway would be possible. Maybe reaction barrier without enzymes (see Psilocin) are way too high, that is why Bufotenin is stable at RT forever.
But when heated to > 170 °C the ambient oxygen will promote this reaction fast. Therefore my Bufotenin TGA showed only ~ 50 % vaporization, other 50 % polymerized and will bake to the ground. Even though traces might vaporize as I wrote and cause this harsh irritation, even when vaporizing Bufotenin super clean at just above 200 °C. I could easily verify it by handing out a Thermogravimetric Analysis (TGA) again with Bufotenin, but this time measure in N2 in future.
Now __Trip__ wrote that the Benzoate salt was quite not too bad. It anyways remains a big question what exactly happens if Tryptamine salts vaporize, which provenly happens just at + 10 % of their freebase temperature (considering the anion is
compatible). But this might be worth investigating, as creating a form like this might actually prevent polymerization via repelling coulomb forces, IF the Tryptamines stay in Salt form at least until they finally transist from liquid to gas. The big question to me then again would be WHERE IS THE ACID GOING, if there is a back-dissociation before actually vaporizing. 10 mg of Benzoic Acid / Acetic Acid would give a severe lung irritation, but this does not happen. On the other hand, I believe dissociating in a IONIC state would require 100s of Celsius and probably decompose anything before ... :?
Here would be a ghetto-experiment to at least get soooome insight:
> Place 10 mg of DMT Benzoate on a hotplate at 200 °C
> wet a pH paper and just hold it ~ 1 cm above
Even airborne vapor of conc. HCl will instantly react with a pH paper like this. Therefore any
non-dissociated acid will have the same result.
That would at least prove if the vapor is back-dissociated (pH paper coloured, Freebase) or still dissociated (no reaction, salt). Maybe next week I will do it and make a new thread about it. I never believed when people said you can smoke DMT Acetate, but it works and I think this whole thing deserves some kind of discussion.
Anyways a much easier solution for vaporizing Freebase:
Just do it on Titan or any other inert (or reducing) rather than oxidized atmosphere here on earth. If Elon Musk stops ruining his reputation on Twitter, maybe he has time to do this experiment which would make Mankind benefit much more
![Beaming face with smiling eyes :grin: 😁](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/nexus/unicode/64/1f601.png)