Jan e Kharabat
Established member
Couldn't the white stuff also be sodium carbonate+sodium benzoate? From the water absorbed in EA I mean.
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Research 2020 Bufotenine Extraction TEK + Analytical Data
- Thread starter Brennendes Wasser
- Start date
Research done by (or for) the DMT-Nexus community
Couple updates:
1) The white stuff did not progress. Oil did not change. Perhaps there are two compounds or maybe it is just xtalization dynamics. Vast majority of it is definetly oil. I may try TLC as BW suggested.
2) Oil dissolves well in 3 parts 50/50 PG/VG. Makes a nice tan e-juice that looks identical to DMT e-juice. Alkaline on pH paper. Citric can be added to the juice to bring it closer to physiological pH, and everything remains dissolved. Tested this reduced pH juice on myself and strong bufo effects are present: body relaxation, vibrating visual grid. I didnt have to hit the vape hard at all. Definetly stronget than DMT. The bufo experience was stronger than before and I went through some introspection during the test. No nausea or side effects noted, but everyone is different (vaporizing the salt my friend had a small ammount of nausea, he will likely be willing to test the juice on himself also).
Cheers
1) The white stuff did not progress. Oil did not change. Perhaps there are two compounds or maybe it is just xtalization dynamics. Vast majority of it is definetly oil. I may try TLC as BW suggested.
2) Oil dissolves well in 3 parts 50/50 PG/VG. Makes a nice tan e-juice that looks identical to DMT e-juice. Alkaline on pH paper. Citric can be added to the juice to bring it closer to physiological pH, and everything remains dissolved. Tested this reduced pH juice on myself and strong bufo effects are present: body relaxation, vibrating visual grid. I didnt have to hit the vape hard at all. Definetly stronget than DMT. The bufo experience was stronger than before and I went through some introspection during the test. No nausea or side effects noted, but everyone is different (vaporizing the salt my friend had a small ammount of nausea, he will likely be willing to test the juice on himself also).
Cheers
Attachments
Dasein said:
Yea, but why is it oil OR white stuff? Seems like a xtalization dynamic, not sure.
Ionic compounds are parts per thousand level in the EA layer in every published paper I have seen.
I could be wrong.
It seems inconsequential for the e-juice I'm making. Perhaps I can dissolve what I have in dry EA and see if the white stuff goes into solution.
Jan e Kharabat
Established member
I think the oil is simply bufo and the white stuff sodium benzoate/carbonate. Since the oil dissolve in the e-juice and the white stuff didn't, that is a further indication that it's ionic stuff. You could also taste a tiny bit of it...
I know quite some academic sources cite EA as the rex solvent. But from all my experience it is bad here :?: Not really a safe way to get crystals. One time it turned brown afterwards, pictures attached at the TEK.
Jonathan Ott used it in his Pharmanopo paper, but actually it sounds more like it did not work, so he placed it aside and forgot about it, just to realize after days randomly crystals formed
(placed in Freezer 1 night, then in Fridge for several days :? ).
Xylene will 100 % form crystals upon slow cooling, they can be very hard and brown-translucent.
Still actually, when anyways going for an E-Juice, I would even prefer the oil, as this will dissolve even better in your PG. Once crystallized it might be much harder ... and even pure Bufotenin being dark brown means there is no downside of stuffing dark stuff into your E-Juice, will still be a good-quality product.
Sounds reasonable, then you could directly extract with warm PG on your conserted matter, I guess the salts would never dissolve anyways? And then add the residual VG.
Cool news on the vaping efficiency. Yes it's stronger than DMT by maybe 1,5-2x, but still not as strong as 5-MeO. E-Juice-Vaping could be indeed stronger, as with pure Freebase-Oil-Vaping you will destroy 20-50 % Bufo while heating.
The only good thing about concentrate-vaped Freebase Bufo is the aroma of roasted nuts, but only when you do 1-2 mg and remotely smell the vapor
Jonathan Ott used it in his Pharmanopo paper, but actually it sounds more like it did not work, so he placed it aside and forgot about it, just to realize after days randomly crystals formed
(placed in Freezer 1 night, then in Fridge for several days :? ).Xylene will 100 % form crystals upon slow cooling, they can be very hard and brown-translucent.
Still actually, when anyways going for an E-Juice, I would even prefer the oil, as this will dissolve even better in your PG. Once crystallized it might be much harder ... and even pure Bufotenin being dark brown means there is no downside of stuffing dark stuff into your E-Juice, will still be a good-quality product.
Sounds reasonable, then you could directly extract with warm PG on your conserted matter, I guess the salts would never dissolve anyways? And then add the residual VG.
Cool news on the vaping efficiency. Yes it's stronger than DMT by maybe 1,5-2x, but still not as strong as 5-MeO. E-Juice-Vaping could be indeed stronger, as with pure Freebase-Oil-Vaping you will destroy 20-50 % Bufo while heating.
The only good thing about concentrate-vaped Freebase Bufo is the aroma of roasted nuts, but only when you do 1-2 mg and remotely smell the vapor
Dasein said:
I do not know if the white stuff dissolves in ejuice. Only tested oil so far.
Crystals formed from EA should be rather red and not light-tan to even white. So would not assume that this is Bufo.
The higher the concentration upon Crystallize-Begin, the more "junk" will be also stashed inside the crystal grid. And solubility in EA is very high even at -20 °C, so it only precipitates from a very reduced solution.
I have seen EA + Heptane in literature, but this will also leave behind quite some Goodies at -20 °C (if you care about yield).
The higher the concentration upon Crystallize-Begin, the more "junk" will be also stashed inside the crystal grid. And solubility in EA is very high even at -20 °C, so it only precipitates from a very reduced solution.
I have seen EA + Heptane in literature, but this will also leave behind quite some Goodies at -20 °C (if you care about yield).
Ok. Update on the white stuff: it is a salt that somehow was carried by EA. It only dissolves in water and not acetone. Dasein was correct. Not an issue and easy to deal with.
The brown dark oil makes an amazing active e-juice.
I love e-vaping bufotenine
The brown dark oil makes an amazing active e-juice.
I love e-vaping bufotenine
Shares the yopo pen with more friends. Notes:
- Some people feel nausea the first time they go into the bufotenine space. It only lasts for about 10 to 15 seconds.
- Subsequent trips are free of nausea.
Regarding washes. I dissolved a sample of the bufo oil (1.2g) in a small ammount of acetone. Then, I added naptha to try to xtalize it. It did not xtalize (oil again).
Out of curiosity, I evaped the naphtha. 100mg of a mysterious tan powder appeared. This can be considered a "naphtha wash". The powder vaporized well in e-mesh but zi didn't feel anything from it. Seems like inactive stuff in the oil ~8%.
Not sure if doing this wash is needed for the ejuice process, but here would be the refined version:
- 100g of seeds ground
- Mixed in 25g of sodium carbonate and 50g of water (note: 10g of sodium carbonate should also work, or simply use 60g of saturated sodium carbonate solution).
- Dried paste in oven at 170F
- Pulled with acetone 3x (~175ml each time) trough filter
- Drierd over CaCl2 overnight which also allowed sediment to settle to a clear solution
- Carefully decanted and salted with 10g of benzoic acid
- Decant benzate xtals that form after a few days
- Wash with boiling acetone (optional?
- Dry
- Dissolve in small ampmount of water
- Add enough sodium carbonate to make a pH of 9.6 (use buffer calculator)
- Pull with dry boiking EA until no water remains
- Evap EA
- Dissolve oil in small amlunt of acetone and separate it from any insoluble parte
- Optional wash: Add 10x naphtha volume and allow oil to crash in fridge. Decant naphtha.
- Allow to fully evaporate
- ejiuce can be made easily over hot water bath, with 25% VG, 75% PG. Optionally 0.2 parts citric acid can be added to lower pH and perhaps for longer storage life (?).
Cheers
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- Some people feel nausea the first time they go into the bufotenine space. It only lasts for about 10 to 15 seconds.
- Subsequent trips are free of nausea.
Regarding washes. I dissolved a sample of the bufo oil (1.2g) in a small ammount of acetone. Then, I added naptha to try to xtalize it. It did not xtalize (oil again).
Out of curiosity, I evaped the naphtha. 100mg of a mysterious tan powder appeared. This can be considered a "naphtha wash". The powder vaporized well in e-mesh but zi didn't feel anything from it. Seems like inactive stuff in the oil ~8%.
Not sure if doing this wash is needed for the ejuice process, but here would be the refined version:
- 100g of seeds ground
- Mixed in 25g of sodium carbonate and 50g of water (note: 10g of sodium carbonate should also work, or simply use 60g of saturated sodium carbonate solution).
- Dried paste in oven at 170F
- Pulled with acetone 3x (~175ml each time) trough filter
- Drierd over CaCl2 overnight which also allowed sediment to settle to a clear solution
- Carefully decanted and salted with 10g of benzoic acid
- Decant benzate xtals that form after a few days
- Wash with boiling acetone (optional?
- Dry
- Dissolve in small ampmount of water
- Add enough sodium carbonate to make a pH of 9.6 (use buffer calculator)
- Pull with dry boiking EA until no water remains
- Evap EA
- Dissolve oil in small amlunt of acetone and separate it from any insoluble parte
- Optional wash: Add 10x naphtha volume and allow oil to crash in fridge. Decant naphtha.
- Allow to fully evaporate
- ejiuce can be made easily over hot water bath, with 25% VG, 75% PG. Optionally 0.2 parts citric acid can be added to lower pH and perhaps for longer storage life (?).
Cheers
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Sounds quite manageable. Also the much higher yields are also great.
Yes that Bufo is a B*tch to crystallize :x If there is only a small portion that might not be initial-salted Bufo-Benzoate, maybe you could still just use it right away if the next steps are too laborious for people?
Woolmer
Established member
I have been trying out my extracts more lately on convection e-mesh and I find bufo-benzoate difficult to vaporise. It always seems to burn a bit which is extremely harsh on the lungs. My vaping technique might not be perfect but it works decently for regular DMT benzoate. 5 mg is difficult enough to vaporize completely I cannot imagine 20 mg like Loveall.
There is also a heavy body load which is present even at threshold. Heavy legs and a heavy feeling in the back of my head. My friend has also reported a heavy body load. Perhaps this is due to burning the product?
I only ventured into a visual dosage once and had fabulous OEV's.
I rushed an extraction into freebase and put it into e-juice at too low a concentration, but the juice still felt a bit harsh. I am not well versed with e-juice so perhaps I was burning the cotton or something.
There is also a heavy body load which is present even at threshold. Heavy legs and a heavy feeling in the back of my head. My friend has also reported a heavy body load. Perhaps this is due to burning the product?
I only ventured into a visual dosage once and had fabulous OEV's.
I rushed an extraction into freebase and put it into e-juice at too low a concentration, but the juice still felt a bit harsh. I am not well versed with e-juice so perhaps I was burning the cotton or something.
Jan e Kharabat
Established member
So I am currently doing an extraction, it's a bit messy and I made a couple of mistakes because I was impatient... But anyways, I was wondering if it could be possible to cook the seed powder in water initially, then evap the water, base and extract. That way one wouldn't have to work with all that seed powder. I don't like dry teks, they are messy and it takes a long time to dry the powder. I could try cooking in water the next time, would it be reasonable?
Woolmer
Established member
The amount of water you'd have to use with a more traditional a/b would be way more than that used in the dry tek and would take much longer to evaporate
If you use a microwave to dry the seed powder it takes about 5-10 minutes.
I don't think there is a quicker and simpler method than this. It's not messy at all because the bufo benzoate crashes out pretty cleanly and is not sticky. I was able to yield around 7% freebase from this method.
It powderises easily to a fine consistency that vaporizes easily with nearly no harshness.
If you use a microwave to dry the seed powder it takes about 5-10 minutes.
I don't think there is a quicker and simpler method than this. It's not messy at all because the bufo benzoate crashes out pretty cleanly and is not sticky. I was able to yield around 7% freebase from this method.
It turns out the issue with vaping my bufo was simply due to it being in a "flake" type shape from when I scraped it. I think the heat is less evenly distributed in and among flakes which causes uneven heating and burning.
It powderises easily to a fine consistency that vaporizes easily with nearly no harshness.
Jan e Kharabat
Established member
A desiccant makes things much easier, but I don't have any right now. Anyways, I managed to extract a decent amount.
I was wondering about how to recrystallize the benzoate. Initially I had black colored crystals salted out with 6g of benzoic acid added directly to acetone. They didn't dissolve easily in water. Also, while dissolving, a whole lot of oil swam up on the surface. After half an hour of stirring and heating (at around 80 degrees C), I filtered the solution, most of the oil got trapped in the filter paper and lightly solidified, some light colored solid chunks are also left behind, I don't know what those are yet. I basified the water solution with sodium carbonate, a black precipitate formed which stuck around the beaker. I poured off the basified solution, dried the beaker, and tried to dissolve the black precipitate in near boiling toluene but it barely dissolved. I poured off the toluene and put it in the freezer, a thin layer of oil formed which was not easy to scrape off, is was likely no more than a few hundred milligrams, judging by the small amount a scraped off and weighed.
Anyways, there was still a significant amount of black precipitate left, so I added a small amount of acetone, which easily dissolved it all. I filtered the acetone solution as there were some solid bits which wouldn't dissolve. I added benzoic acid and stirred a little, and a precipitate crashed out instantly. This means that toluene doesn't dissolve freebase bufotenine very well, or may be the bufotenine is not easily accessible to the solvent as it becomes trapped within the layer of fats etc.
The second benzoate precipitate is brown colored, I will test it as it is, but I was wondering if it would be possible to dissolve the benzoate directly in some solvent and recrystallize it. I tried it with IPA but the solubility is rather poor and the crystals take a long time to form.
I was wondering about how to recrystallize the benzoate. Initially I had black colored crystals salted out with 6g of benzoic acid added directly to acetone. They didn't dissolve easily in water. Also, while dissolving, a whole lot of oil swam up on the surface. After half an hour of stirring and heating (at around 80 degrees C), I filtered the solution, most of the oil got trapped in the filter paper and lightly solidified, some light colored solid chunks are also left behind, I don't know what those are yet. I basified the water solution with sodium carbonate, a black precipitate formed which stuck around the beaker. I poured off the basified solution, dried the beaker, and tried to dissolve the black precipitate in near boiling toluene but it barely dissolved. I poured off the toluene and put it in the freezer, a thin layer of oil formed which was not easy to scrape off, is was likely no more than a few hundred milligrams, judging by the small amount a scraped off and weighed.
Anyways, there was still a significant amount of black precipitate left, so I added a small amount of acetone, which easily dissolved it all. I filtered the acetone solution as there were some solid bits which wouldn't dissolve. I added benzoic acid and stirred a little, and a precipitate crashed out instantly. This means that toluene doesn't dissolve freebase bufotenine very well, or may be the bufotenine is not easily accessible to the solvent as it becomes trapped within the layer of fats etc.
The second benzoate precipitate is brown colored, I will test it as it is, but I was wondering if it would be possible to dissolve the benzoate directly in some solvent and recrystallize it. I tried it with IPA but the solubility is rather poor and the crystals take a long time to form.
Hello, I'm curious if there are any possible substitutes for the anhydrous acetone. In Brasil bufotenine is actually legal but anhydrous acetone isn't. I have some isobutanol and was thinking it's polar and apolar properties could be useful for extracting bufotenine (isobutanol and bufotenine are slightly polar beacuse of a OH group), but thats just a guess. Otherwise I wonder if it would be possible to make 60% acetone anhydrous with the use of sodium sulfate of magnesium sulfate. If anyone could answer my
Ruffles
Esteemed member
Questions:
- how long for the acetone pulls? Just mix and decant?
- any predictions if fumaric or citric or malic or others would work?
Woolmer
Established member
Perhaps loveall followed a different procedure but the original acetone extraction laid out by BW worked well for me.
"Boil the seeds at ~ 60 °C for 10 minutes in the Acetone while preferably stirring - no need to be exact with temperature, just make sure that it is boiling. Wait for the seed powder to sediment down to the bottom, decant the Acetone and repeat 2x times with fresh solvent."
Woolmer
Established member
I don't think anyone has tried salting from isobutanol. If there is water present it could be a problem because I believe bufo benzoate is soluble in water.
This sounds like one situation where using a soxhlet extraction apparatus would be beneficial, which is a question that pops up from time to time.