2KG Mimosa Hostilis Straight to base?

[raid517]

Hi, I have a friend who has acquired a 2KG supply of Mimosa Hostilis Inner Powdered Rootbark on behalf of a friend. In any case, he has been following the tek listed here: http://www.spiritelf.com/substances/index.php?doc=63 and I have to say I am highly impressed by it's simplicity. (I know there is some debate around straight to base teks like this, but they do seem to work well for mimosa, since this contains little fats, or chlorophyll etc (so no need for defatting, or the acidification stages). In any case my friend would like to use this tek - but as he has such a substantial supply of mimosa (roughly 4x the amount that is being worked in this tek) he is curious as to whether he should simply use 4x the amount of water and chemicals used in this tek too - or if maybe it doesn't work like that? He also notes that this tek doesn't give a specific value for the initial water/sodium hydroxide mix - and while he is aware that the author was probably keen to preserve the simplicity of the tek, he feels that this value should be able to be clearly established. He is highly uncertain if simply 4xing the amount of water used and the amount of Sodium Hydroxide (and the amount of Naphtha) will preserve the correct PH value - and the correct chemical balance also, or if doing this might have some kind of adverse effect? He notes from reading other teks that in several instances some amateur chemists have failed to successfully complete this experiment due to using too much Naphtha and other chemicals. Having spent a considerable sum of money in setting up this experiment, he is keen to do everything he can to ensure that he doesn't screw up. He would therefore welcome any advice anyone on this forum feels able to offer. He would be most grateful in particular if any such advice referred directly to the above tek alone and not to some deviation of this, or to any discussion about the relative merits of any other possible teks - as this is only likely to confuse him considerably. Thanks.

 

[raid517]

[quote:ca5998712c="zero"] One thing that will add is that if you were thinking about whether or not the experience was good for you DURING THE EXPERIENCE, then you certainly weren't anywhere near the realm that DMT can take you to. And maybe you don't want to be, that's completely understandable, it's not for everyone. I think you would find great wisdom and room for serious personal exploration with Ayahuasca though man. It doesn't get more natural and organic feeling than that, period.[/quote:ca5998712c] No, if you read what I wrote, you would recall that I clearly said that I wasn't thinking about anything. The dominant and overriding thought was one of complete surrender - a state I believe I achieved through careful meditation both before and during the experience. However in the end I (as I said) I became bored with the psychedelic colour scheme - and it was this that brought me back to a sense of myself and to a decision that it was all very unnatural and not overly impressive. Perhaps if there had been more blues and reds and a wider spectrum of colours in general and less of what in a strange way seemed an almost cliched green electro organic glow to everything (somewhat as you would expect if you were in a forest setting and you believed that a substance you had taken had made the plant life 'glow with green energy'), and perhaps if the process of extraction had not been quite so arduous and artificial for my friend SWIM and perhaps if the entire paraffinalia required and process of consumption of this substance had not been so artificial and Westernised and so far removed from the original context in which this substance was originally consumed, then maybe my impressions may have been different. But there are a lot of perhaps in this - and some of these I am uncertain I will ever have he opportunity to fully resolve. I certainly could try some Ayahuasca - and this might help with the impression of the artificiality of it all and the dirty Westernised extraction and consumption process' - but again, it will come down I think to the actual authenticity of the experience and may still find myself being concerned that it is impossible to recreate an authentic experience both within my own very Westernised world and my own Western mind. I am interested too to hear what the actual tribes people of the Amazon make of this experience, because I am sure that to some large degree it will work only within the context of one's own personal experience and one's individual expectations. For example do you imagine that such primitive tribes people will speak in terms of 11 dimensional superbeings, or aliens that intersect many different physical and non physical realities? Or would they be more likely to speak in terms of Gods, with half man and half bird bodies, or of many headed monkeys, or giant panther like entities who offer messages of healing and wisdom for the tribe - and also messages of comfort from both recent and long dead ancestors? If the experience and the insights gained from it are real, then why is is likely that in a different context, different people from different cultures will have both very different experiences and an entirely separate visual and mental vocabulary for explaining them? Or do you think that perhaps as you are Western, you are by definition smarter and that therefore these 11 dimensional entities etc. are in some way more disposed to reveal themselves and their purpose more fully to you? From a Western perspective, perhaps an avid sci-fi reader and believer in aliens and other worldly phenomena in general might be more disposed to being anally probed in a gigantic golden alien pyramidical hypergallactic space ship of some description or other, but from the perspective of a non believer and a sceptic in such matters, or from the perspective of someone from entirely another culture from our own, your impressions are likely to have no common value or theme at all with their experiences. This is why I referred earlier to the capacity of many psychedelics in bringing out much of what is in your mind already, rather than having the capacity to plant anything profoundly new there. Anyway, how about we make it interesting? How about the next time any of the cosmic explorers here decide to partake in a journey 'into the beyond' that you do as McKenna and others have done and ask these entities for something real and practical you can bring back to this world and then report your findings here? These entities may feel there is 'as much value in curing cancer as there is for us in saving flies from spider's webs', however as someone who has lost a number of friends and close relatives to cancer in the past, I would personally find such an assertion both unfeeling and even perhaps potentially quite callous. I would certainly be interested in discovering a way to ease all human suffering (and all suffering in general) - but if their answer is to 'take DMT' I just don't think as a universal answer that that would wash so well. Drugs often do have the potential to offer a short term relief from suffering, but if you make them the focus of your life, they have an equal potential to create suffering also. Perhaps someone some day might create a drug that offered us the potential to be eternally happy - but how much value would that happiness have if it ultimately was not in fact real? I think that a true search for fulfilment and happiness must start with the self - and perhaps if we are lucky we may find some small aids and insights that help us along a little further in our journey. But I think it is a mistake to place an over reliance in these aids and to devote our faith entirely to them. Anyway I am diverging horribly from my original purpose. As I said this particular experience has probably made me more skeptical rather than less so. However it might not dissuade me from reassessing my options and revisiting this topic at some point in the future.

 

[Noman]

[quote:da99d4216e="raid517"] These entities may feel there is 'as much value in curing cancer as there is for us in saving flies from spider's webs', however as someone who has lost a number of friends and close relatives to cancer in the past, I would personally find such an assertion both unfeeling and even perhaps potentially quite callous.[/quote:da99d4216e] Are you callous for not saving that fly? Is a biologist callous for not driving a pack of hyenas away from ripping the guts out of a baby gazelle? No, because that's what happens to flies and gazelles. And what happens to every living thing is that they die. Why should humans get a pass? Why stop at a cancer cure? Why shouldn't you expect these entities to just give us the secret of immortality? They can't and they won't even try because the number one cause of death is birth - and that's okay. Psychedellics can end human suffering by showing us that and showing us how physical life is only a tiny little speck in the greater whole of existence.

 

[El Ka Bong]

Hey Everyone, have we all read this..?! http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/sacred.pdf ... Raid517 imo, let me just wonder aloud if ... maybe psychedelics work differently for you... OR quite simply you just have not ever done a high enough dose...? Try a really big pair of lungfulls that you hold in ... ! Try it at different times of day since the number of HT-5 receptors in your brain and the amount of MAO enzymes in your body will vary I don't want to speak for you experience, so tell us more ... have you had a 'white-light' experience..? That ultimate goal of Tim Leary et al and their version of the Tibetan Book of The Dead ..?! I used to have a 'cartoon' version in my head about it until it happened - It was beyond terror, but now I'm 'used' to it...! Being again the White light or the AllThatIs... I like to talk this over and over, but not to exhaust it to death... heh ... (ego death) ... just yet .. ! One hardly needs to experience that more than once a month, or once a year ... 3 or 4 times for me ... > 35 mg vapourized... But Raid', speaking about the ego... Let me observe that you make so many typical, but very 'sharp', very-dualistically-limited statements about anything you (or we) think we know. 'Ego-maniacally' ! Forget the Entities-shmentities...! 'they', whatever the beings are that you might meet, are nothing like you imagine, or have been told or shown or maybe seen painted.... You are just making shit up, expecting from the ego's-view. My 'elves' were little kids when they finally showed up ... my ayahuasca liek snake was phenomenal ... and when I finally hit 'GOD' ... I knew I had no further to go ... AND btw ... ! ... my SWIM's MHRB extract is nothing "dirty" ..?! It's a super refined, precious, jasmine smelling, perfect crystal garden ..! God's crystal Garden in my hands..>! But I thought exactly what you did, if I understand your replies here, and I think you say it clearly... So do we all agree that reality we wake up to becomes 'laminated' with words and ideas..? Isn't it true that we are crucified by time and gravity when we wake up, out of a perfect dream...?! Raid' ... you recognize how much you are projecting your self into all that is assumed to be 'real' and 'artificial'... to the point of making all sorts of even more, limiting, 'negative' and hyper-dualistic assumptions....? All of that ego function needs to get peeled off - it's a healthy thing to have happen since our brains and bodies have an amazing self-healing and recovery mechanism that FREES you of all the crap - ego dissolution is a thing we do every night we lay down to fall asleep... Vapourized dmt is another way to do this, as 'artificial' as it appears, in dualistic comparison to an 'opposite', but it freaking works ! ... OMFG does it work .. ! At a high enough dose of vapourized, swim showed me the way to have a Beingasm...! That is what dmt is for me, at the right dose ... suddenly I 'remember' ... I am 'AllThatIS ' and god, and my previous lives ... the net of Indra, and my unborn self ... all packaged perfectly, again since forever, still going .. and life here in the flesh is ... such a holiday from the rest of the NON-flesh universe wo w ... ! I ammmm still .... breeeathhhhhing .... ! I never did a high enough dose of any tryptamine until just a bout 18 months ago, and then finally - into the white light and back again. And I have never shut up about it since ... that, and a few other side-effects ! And who was it that said ... "God never shuts up"..?

 

[raid517]

I think the answer is that our minds may just work differently - which in itself is something of a statement on the nature of psychedelic substances of this kind. You I suspect probably have an easier time talking about 'commune with God', or with 11 dimensional superbeings and with a variety of non physical realities. However, as someone who uses skepticism in the work that they do to uncover real and quantifiable truths about the nature of the world we live in - and as a skeptic both by nature and by temperament - and also as someone who does not in any way subscribe in even the smallest way to any form of religion, or God, or aliens, or any non physical/spiritual realities beyond the one in which we currently exist, it might be easier to see how my experience might differ vastly from the experiences of many others here. Which might lead you to wonder why I have chosen to follow this path? Well as I said previously, I am interested in world cultures (and also world religions) but only from an entirely objective perspective, insomuch that I view them purely in the context of 'stories' and legends that may in some way serve as a means for man to both understand himself and the nature of the world around him - and also his own position within the Universe at large. I saw (or see) value in these stories - but only in the sense that they may occasionally act as a useful reference book for living; they may provide answers (often in allegorical form) for many human issues and individual personal dilemmas that cannot be answered so easily through any other means. The body of human experience contained within these stories is after all often vast, so it would be foolish and even potentially arrogant to ignore them completely. But I nonetheless do view them purely as stories and I do not ascribe any greater value to them than this. (And certainly no deeper 'spiritual' or 'mystical' value of any kind). Similarly I read the stories (or 'experience reports') here (and also the works of McKenna, Huxley and others) with the same objective anthropological interest that I view all such matters. I never once bought into any genuine 'mystical' interpretation of it. However I did see value in it as a means of enabling certain cultures and certain individuals to ascribe both meaning and value to their own lives and in helping them (and indirectly me also) to understand their position within the wider reality and within the Universe in which we presently exist. The stories here (at least from my own personal perspective) are no different in any substantial way from the more mystical elements and stories of wider religions such as those of Christianity, or Judaism, or Hinduism, or any number of other belief systems of this nature. To say they have no value probably indeed would be extremely arrogant - however there is a valid body of opinion that would argue that ultimately (again in common with all religions) they are no more than an expression of man's common desire to be more than a simple addition of the sum of his parts - and for life to not simply be about a brief and often not very meaningful period of existence, followed thereafter by eternal oblivion and death. Many humans find the concept of complete finality and non existence almost impossible to accept. They also find it impossible to accept that ultimately their time on this earth may in many ways be fundamentally meaningless. So what better way to cope with this than to adopt a belief system that offers one a deeper and more fundamental connection with all of nature and with everything we see? How insignificant are we really, if we can come to know of God and can be part of some wider scheme, or be a part of his plan for us all? (This is equally true whether your God is the God of Abraham, or whether it is a collective of 3 foot high reptilian skinned pixies). In any case my own interest has always been entirely objective in nature. I wanted to understand these stories in as close a context as possible - to get 'down and dirty' with them if necessary, in an attempt to more fully understand and appreciate their origins. I wanted I guess to experience that sense of complete 'oneness' and 'universality' with nature and to attempt to temporarily suspend my skepticism in the process. In doing so I believed that only then could I fully appreciate how these legends could have arisen. So no, I have not had the 'white light' experience alluded to in this particular set of stories. However as I have said, as someone who is interested and willing to study such matters to their fullest degree, I would not rule it out entirely as an option for the future. Nonetheless I doubt that whatever transpires I will ever truly undergo any substantive kind of religious (or cultural) conversion; there have been many opportunities for this to happen in the past and ultimately I have always returned to a the same position of objective distance (although perhaps I have been better informed by the experience). I cannot change what, or who I am - and I cannot change the probably deeply analytical nature of my psyche - but this does not mean by any measure that I do not see value in either these experiences or in stories of this nature.

 

[Implants]

Raid, first of all I'd like to thank you for the interesting, thoughtful, well written posts you've made. Honestly most of the time i see posts that large and my mind immediately goes "Oh fuck me... i have to read all this?" - On that note ill keep this as short as possible. Many people report non breakthroughs/lower doses as uncomfortable, unenjoyable etc. It seems - unless i somehow missed it - that you didn't break through. I'm wondering if you plan on trying it, actually, i'm hoping you do so i can hear your opinion/thoughts/ideas because I have never smoked DMT myself, but i come from the same line of thinking it seems. I'm into the psychedelics but im a skeptic, it's hard for me to balance my conflicting ideas, IE - finishing The God Delusion, identifying with all of it, loving it, to reading True Hallucinations, identifying, loving it. So yeeah, go take the plunge into the "beingasm" - "AllThatIs" and let me know. go go =)

 

[Garulfo]

Raid, I consider also that SWIM is very sceptik, often critizising religion beliefs and dogmas. He enjoy science and 'facts', and he is sometimes pretty upset by stupid beliefs (ex: astrology, homeopathy, astral projection... - note, this is a personal opinion based on personal experience, not a judgement). But since... huh... (can't say how long ) he feels 'pushed' to check by himself what others said about the main mystery : "I am conscious" That main mystery leads to all others. Without that... well, no mystery. For that reason SWIM experimented with different psychedelic substances. He thinks now that that experiences pointed towards the same 'source', but DMT allowed him to lace things together and it is not a matter of what is seen during the experience which is fun but rather anecdotical. And the truth is that there is nothing really new there but SWIM just forget it 99,99% of his time. Maybe you are aware about who you are most of the time and the DMT has nothing to offer to you...

 

[zero]

Saving everyone a long winded post, I'll just make this point... again... "The dominant and overriding thought was one of complete surrender - a state I believe I achieved through careful meditation both before and during the experience. However in the end I (as I said) I simply became bored with the psychedelic colour scheme - and it was this that brought me back to a sense of myself and to a decision that it was all very unnatural and not overly impressive. Perhaps if there had been more blues and reds and a wider spectrum of colours in general and less of what in a strange way seemed an almost cliched green electro organic glow to everything (somewhat as you would expect if you were in a forest setting and you believed that a substance you had taken had made the plant life 'glow with green energy'), and perhaps if the process of extraction had not been quite so arduous..." I'm still going to stress the fact that it is clear that you didn't have a full blown DMT experience, nor anything even near it, so it's still difficult to stress to you what you've missed and impossible for you to know what you've missed... and you've already decided for yourself pretty much. And that's obviously your call but I do hope that you give it another shot one day. Also... in my opinion, the extraction process was far over-done, so to speak, so I can understand your discouragement. BUT... SWIM started an extraction of 500g MHRB on Sunday morning, spent from 9am-6pm in/around the kitchen... It is Tuesday morning and he is finished... completely finished... grams of transluscent twinkly white crystals. Easy.

 

[El Ka Bong]

Yes Raid' ... take two huge ... maximum lung-capacity hits .. and hold on to each lungfull ... then come tell us what happened..!> But see how this thread exploded already ... ! Raid' I was just like you - I understand exactly what you write about. But imo your effort to be so "objecvtive' is the 'block' ... YOu need to have it 'waxed' off with your ego ... That objectivity is justl a dualistic view of the world - trapped in a laminated layer of language. Until one can get out of this laminated-shell of 'objectivity' ... or blow it all away .. and 'die' ... you will not experience anything but living inside that ego's shell. Most people today wait until their death bed to realize this, and hang onto dogmas and 'isms all life long (eg science!) to keep fear in check ... Until recently I also had little evidence in my life of anything but the the physical; I was all science and biology with some Jungian theory thrown in ... I used to believe that material, flesh and physical reality came before anything else - but from an experience of total 'ego dissolution' (to stick with scientific sounding terms) I now recognize the limitedness of such a world view. It was backwards ... I was a very typical Newtonian-minded ego of the modern western world... Lucky for my Jungian / Buddhist inklings, because after getting dmt vapourizing right, I now see that there is a non-physical realm that ALWAYS has existed, from before I was concieved. I found this intuitively obvious once I was flipped so inside-out... And I now have experienced the 'event' that the body incarnates a soul (or a whole raft of souls) from this source ... I am supported by archetypes, guardian spirits, I am affected by past-lives, and in this reincarnation I will affect karmic 'load' on my next life ... Suddenly these non-physical parts of me are affecting my fate - And I feel so stress free and 'liberated' from the ego's limits and angst .. Now that I have communed with the numinous, synchronicities are popping off like fireworks in my physical reality ... humouring me, lovingly ... And now I awaken and I 'live' off the joy of knowing this mystery was given to me as a gift in my body, for a VERY, impossibly huge reason ... I gave up on being 'objective' about that .. it's too big to ever know it all but I have experienced it ever so 'subjectively' ...

 

[raid517]

Mmm... Well as I said I will reserve full judgment to a more appropriate date. Nonetheless, there remains the distinct possibility that no matter how profound and/or spiritual these experiences might seem, that because they are only accessible through the consumption of a drug, that they may nonetheless be entirely drug induced. If you discount that possibility, then you discount an alternate and rational explanation and in the process you also discount the most useful tool that humanity has at it's disposal, which is a genuine pursuit of objectivity - and if you loose this, any experiences you recount may loose a considerable degree of their significance and value as a result. I am not a very 'ego' driven person to begin with, so telling me to loose my ego is not such a big deal for me. However telling me that I should loose my objectivity is likely to always be a problem.

 

[Garulfo]

[quote:4cba8c4bfe]that because they are only accessible through the consumption of a drug,[/quote:4cba8c4bfe] They are not only accessible that way. It's just faster, stronger but may not last more than few days. [quote:4cba8c4bfe]I am not a very 'ego' driven person to begin with, so telling me to loose my ego is not such a big deal for me.[/quote:4cba8c4bfe] Bwahahahahah :lol: Sorry guy, there must be a misunderstading there. "Losing my ego" is like dying, can you still say it is no big deal ?

 

[raid517]

Well I have spent most of my life losing my ego - and there have been periods in my life where I have lived though what can only be described as a walking and waking death. Life itself often does all too good a job at chipping away at your ego - providing you live long enough to allow it to do this to you. So yes I can see how it is possible to say that only when the ego is entirely stripped away, can you begin to truly learn anything of value. But again, this process is not exclusive to the world of DMT, or of drugs in general. It is possible to reach this position entirely without the aid of drugs - and in some ways it is probably preferable if you can do this. However I guess what I am trying to say is that at best I view certain drugs as purely an aid to insight - and not an end in of themselves. They may help to illuminate certain answers, but they are rarely, or never an answer entirely in their own right. Anyway I think I've made my views on this subject very clear. Should the opportunity and the right setting arise in the future where I feel it may be appropriate to repeat this experiment, I may opt to do so at that time. However I do not envisage that this will be for some considerable time - as I feel this period of reflection and self contemplation/growth must be able to continue, with or without the aid of chemical, or other substances of this nature. If I am unable to achieve this, then I feel that such growth probably cannot be sustained anyway.