Hi, I have a friend who has acquired a 2KG supply of Mimosa Hostilis Inner Powdered Rootbark on behalf of a friend. In any case, he has been following the tek listed here: http://www.spiritelf.com/substances/index.php?doc=63 and I have to say I am highly impressed by it's simplicity. (I know there is some debate around straight to base teks like this, but they do seem to work well for mimosa, since this contains little fats, or chlorophyll etc (so no need for defatting, or the acidification stages). In any case my friend would like to use this tek - but as he has such a substantial supply of mimosa (roughly 4x the amount that is being worked in this tek) he is curious as to whether he should simply use 4x the amount of water and chemicals used in this tek too - or if maybe it doesn't work like that? He also notes that this tek doesn't give a specific value for the initial water/sodium hydroxide mix - and while he is aware that the author was probably keen to preserve the simplicity of the tek, he feels that this value should be able to be clearly established. He is highly uncertain if simply 4xing the amount of water used and the amount of Sodium Hydroxide (and the amount of Naphtha) will preserve the correct PH value - and the correct chemical balance also, or if doing this might have some kind of adverse effect? He notes from reading other teks that in several instances some amateur chemists have failed to successfully complete this experiment due to using too much Naphtha and other chemicals. Having spent a considerable sum of money in setting up this experiment, he is keen to do everything he can to ensure that he doesn't screw up. He would therefore welcome any advice anyone on this forum feels able to offer. He would be most grateful in particular if any such advice referred directly to the above tek alone and not to some deviation of this, or to any discussion about the relative merits of any other possible teks - as this is only likely to confuse him considerably. Thanks.
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2KG Mimosa Hostilis Straight to base?
- Thread starter raid517
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Well in for a penny in for a pound, as we say here in the UK. I guess I overestimated how much SWIM would need - besides which, I did take into account the potential for screw-ups and missteps along the way - which if SWIM had used a lesser amount, he would probably have left in the end with nothing. I also pretty much swallowed the whole 'mysticism' line and thought that SWIM would need a pentiful supply to do a lot of exploring with. But in the end the expreience simply amounted to being 'off your skull' on a totally artificial and completely chemical substsance. There was nothing 'natural', or mystical about it at all - and even in the midst of the full on crest of the effects, the predominant thought was that this was 'shit.' I still had enough of a sense of myself to know the difference between what was real and what wasn't - and I knew very early that none of this experience was real, or in any way life enriching at all.
[quote:437f4290bf="raid517"]Of all of the experience reports I have read, people have certainly described some very weird and strange experiences - but if you read them carefully none of them actually make any sense, at least not in any direct or literal way. No one has ever gone on a DMT trip (or any drug) and brought back from it solutions for the many ills and shortcomings of this world. They may speak of 'aliens' and 'pixies'' but what specifically useful things do these pixies have to say regarding these subjects ?[/quote:437f4290bf] I guess you haven't read a lot of Terence McKenna. Or Aldous Huxley. Or Huston Smith. Or Christian Ratsch. Or accounts of traditional shamanic use of Ayahuasca and psilocybe. To name a few sources beyond the trip reports on Erowid.
Yes I have read a lot by these people and it was partly this that inspired both my own and SWIM's interest in this subject. As I said, I did buy into the mysticism side of things, however in the full midst's of the most powerful effects of this substance (and it was extremely powerful) my rational mind still was able to discern that the experience was in fact false and entirely artificial. Besides which what have Terence McKenna. Or Aldous Huxley. Or Huston Smith, or any similar gurus ever really discovered? What cures for cancer, what new technological marvels, what profound advances in engineering have they brought us in this world - the real world that we live in? I do know that Crick and Watson are often ascribed with having taken hallucinogens, and that this in some way attributed to their discovery of the double helix nature of DNA, however these are often very misquoted and what Watson actually said was that it helped him think in abstract ways about abstract shapes and structures that are not always immediately obvious in our day to day lives. What these claims often leave out is that both Crick and Watson already had much of the mathematical and theoretical structure of DNA already worked out and that they had spent the largest part of their careers and lives thinking about abstract structures and shapes in this way and that they had done this entirely independently of any psychedelic aids whatsoever. Pyscadelics of this nature tend to simply bring out in abstract form whatever is already in your mind anyway - they rarely ever plant entirely new concepts there, they are in a way a visual representation of your mental life, so in fairness the best that can be said about these reports is that they enabled Watson to see abstract shapes and structures in a more visual way - but that in fact he was probably to a large extent already engaged in an intense and prolonged period of thought about such structures anyway. He would (and probably did) make his discovery entirely independently psychedelics - and in reality the psychedelics simply helped him see (or visualise) something he had been thinking about for a very long time anyway. Well as I said, I don't want to be critical. I wouldn't have told SWIM to do this and to go to all of this trouble if I didn't genuinely believe there was value in it. But ultimately for better or for worse, both I and SWIM have come away from the experience much more sceptical than I personally was before. I'm sorry that that is my conclusion. But that unfortunately is the reality.
[quote:4f69b01058="raid517"] Besides which what have Terence McKenna. Or Aldous Huxley. Or Huston Smith, or any similar gurus ever really discovered? What cures for cancer, what new technological marvels, what profound advances in engineering have they brought us in this world - the real world that we live in? [/quote:4f69b01058] What advances in technology or discoveries have you made from using cocaine or speed?
None. But I never made any pretenses or had any illusions that they would. They were simply recreational and 'fun' substances. I have though learned some interesting and insightful things from taking MDMA in the past about myself - but the useful part of this is/or was that in many ways they could be applied and put to a useful purpose in my own life. The world of DMT is however far too alien and far too removed from this world to have any really useful or practical applications as far as I can tell at all.
[quote:2e59e76224="raid517"]The world of DMT is however far too alien and far too removed from this world to have any really useful or practical applications as far as I can tell at all.[/quote:2e59e76224] Well its largely a matter of what one considers useful or practical. No, eleven dimensional non-material entities aren't going to tell us how to build a better bridge and they see as much sense in a cancer cure as we do in saving flies from spider's webs. Viewed objectively, life is simply a period of suffering shot through with moments of pleasure and ending with death. If we learn just that from (psychedellics, yoga, TM, voodoo, whatever), I'd consider it useful. There are real world manifestations though. McKenna claimed that psychedellics were responsible for the development of language. The mushroom taught him a new way of working the I Ching that predicted the end of the world taking place within hours of when the Mayan calendar predicted it. When he asked the mushroom for just one concrete thing that could be done to save the planet, the answer came instantly "everyone has just one child". Seems about the best advice for our species that I've ever heard. But I think the value of psychedellics is in dissolving barriers and boundaries and egos that get in the way of truely rational, objective thought. The results of that can be better bridges or cancer cures or just more fulfilling lives as we the material bring that back from the non-material.
[quote:afd307f256="raid517"]None. But I never made any pretenses or had any illusions that they would. They were simply recreational and 'fun' substances. [/quote:afd307f256]You should not have gone into the realm of DMT with any sort of expectations or "pretenses". It IS alien, and it IS very odd and weird. And like most others, it wasn't what you expected, lol
TBH, I went into the experience with no expectations other than that it would be in some way meaningful and profound. I had done lots of research, read around, read lots of things by those authors that I have previously been told I have not studied in any detail - and really set the mood as much as I could. But again I had no real expectations other than it would 'feel' meaningful. I prepared myself through meditation for complete surrender to the experience - and I did surrender, the dominant thought was one of complete surrender. Nonetheless I still found the experience to be entirely false and artificial. One of the off-putting factors was that I just didn't like the colour scheme of this psychedelic world. Lot's of bright greens and electroluminescent lime greens - perhaps reminiscent in some odd way of the plant material origins of this substance. Unfortunately lime green is probably among my least favorite colours. An odd reason perhaps to begin to not like an experience like this - however there was more to my impression than this - as, as I said, it was really just the sheer artificiality of it that put me off. I did hope I guess that it would feel much more 'organic' and 'natural'. It also puts me in a bit of a bind to be honest, as I had started down this path as a means of both self exploration - and also of trying to find a new path in life. I became interested in world cultures and their different views of the world and I thought that these other cultures and their different belief systems might be able to tell me something significant and meaningful that would help me find a better way to live in my own life. Now maybe I'm not so sure. I wouldn't mind perhaps repeating this experience again, in the correct setting - in the Amazon rain forest itself, perhaps in the company of a fully trained Shaman. However in practical terms the opportunities for me to be able to do this are very limited. So whether I will ever repeat this experience within this setting remains at this time very open to question.
[quote:0e0eb42670="Noman"][quote:0e0eb42670="raid517"]The world of DMT is however far too alien and far too removed from this world to have any really useful or practical applications as far as I can tell at all.[/quote:0e0eb42670] Well its largely a matter of what one considers useful or practical. No, eleven dimensional non-material entities aren't going to tell us how to build a better bridge and they see as much sense in a cancer cure as we do in saving flies from spider's webs. Viewed objectively, life is simply a period of suffering shot through with moments of pleasure and ending with death. If we learn just that from (psychedelics, yoga, TM, voodoo, whatever), I'd consider it useful. There are real world manifestations though. McKenna claimed that psychedelics were responsible for the development of language. The mushroom taught him a new way of working the I Ching that predicted the end of the world taking place within hours of when the Mayan calendar predicted it. When he asked the mushroom for just one concrete thing that could be done to save the planet, the answer came instantly "everyone has just one child". Seems about the best advice for our species that I've ever heard. But I think the value of psychedelics is in dissolving barriers and boundaries and egos that get in the way of truly rational, objective thought. The results of that can be better bridges or cancer cures or just more fulfilling lives as we the material bring that back from the non-material.[/quote:0e0eb42670] I understand what you are saying. But I think the 'just one child' answer (as well as those others you mentioned) is one that any reasonably intelligent person could come up with, entirely without the aid of any psychedelics at all. It is probably a thought that a million or more people have several times a day. Indeed there are cultures in this world (and in China specifically) where this policy is already widely applied. Unfortunately as an answer it has not proved as spectacularly successful as you either might hope or imagine, as the Chinese population continues to expand at an unprecedented rate - and the strain this places on the world's natural resources continues unabated. Besides which, how would you manage this? Not everyone in the world - and especially young families, mothers and fathers who wish to have a rich and fulfilling family life with perhaps two or three children - would agree that this really was the best choice for them. Would you tell them that they were wrong - would you deny them this basic human desire? And how would you enforce it? Would you have paid bedroom monitors, or a 'sex police' to monitor sexual activity between people in their own bedrooms to make sure that no ejaculation took place and to monitor fertility cycles? Would you force people to use contraceptives - and if they refused, would you have them forcibly sterilised? Because really if this is an ideal vision of the future, it sounds extremely Orwellian and possibly fascistic in scope to me - and it is almost certainly not something I would want to be a part of. So you see your ideal answer might not be quite as ideal as you think and may not in fact be considered as 'good advice' by everyone you speak to. The rest of these topics that you mentioned are equally debatable - for example there are other much more credible and scientifically sound theories for the origins of language which are on the whole much more widely accepted than those of McKenna. Indeed it is notable perhaps that McKenna's theories are in large part only really accepted in those circles where he is most widely known, i.e. among the 'tune in and drop out' crowd, who by most measures probably can't really claim to have a firm grasp on reality anyway. However there may still be value in the legends and stories that these other cultures subscribe to - and I guess I will probably continue to study them with interest.
Mmm... maybe.... But I just have one question for reference sake. Are psychedelic greens and mustard yellows a common theme? Two other people I know of have reported similar experiences. The visual element (as in not with eyes closed, or half squinting) certainly had this greenish glow to it. Again, not a colour scheme that was particularly to my taste, but maybe if it had more blues and reds and a fuller spectrum I might have appreciated it better. Orally might help me to deal with the vile taste - although I would only do this with pure crystal. (If at all). Anyway, I can certainly see how some people when in a forest setting would report the leaves 'glowing with green energy', as green does seem to be a common theme (at least from my initial impressions). I am not retracting anything I have said (and in particular not the artificial nature of the experience), I just have a very analytical mind (I can't change that even if I wanted to, it's the way I am wired) so in a sense I feel I am attempting to understand where many of the reports I have read may have come from. But in any case, since I am not a prude, I wouldn't rule it out again at some point in the future. However it would have to be in a very appropriate setting and as close to the actual ritual as possible - and not make me feel like I was some dirty little crack head looking for a thrill. The process of taking the drug was I think probably part of my impression of the artificiality of it. The entire process from synthesis to consumption was very Western in nature and there was nothing 'natural' about it at all. So perhaps in some small way this was a contributing factor. But in any case I remain unsure if even in an entirely natural setting there would be any way to overcome the artificial feeling of the experience. I guess I was in some sense looking for a real and physical way to find commune with nature itself - to find some kind of genuine and deeper connection with the non material/natural world that surrounds us. I suppose it may seem obvious to say that I am disappointed that it seems that DMT will not be able to lead me in this direction.
i've never had any direct green theme or anything. Every trip for me is different from the last. Each one offers something new and exciting. If you are looking for a more natural trip, maybe brewing up some ayahuasca just like the natives do it would be the ticket 8)
ok raid517 - slow down ~ Dmt is rocket fuel and you have one big rocket to launch there ... I suspect you have crappy purity, and that has to affect quality, even you mind set worrying about all this work you've done to get this far ! (I already made my points about 'watch-out-for-bad-teks' right..? ). I can't imagine the point of snorting it..!? Very courageous.. but ... whoa..>! ... and once you have extracted GOOD spice, then there's practice smoking it ! .. assume any mental 'posture' you want before you launch - it makes no difference after 35 mg. Try different doses... Try every set and setting that's safe ... and gather a larger sample of experiences, over years even. There's no rush... but when you're ready to practice again, find the 'rush' you get out of 35 - 50 mg ... Then let's hear what you can tell us... ! Your 'elves' won't be like anybody else's ... your 'snakes' won't be either ... your angels and who knows what you'll find will be like nothing you've ever read about ... ( say 20 - 40 mg ) God and the AllThatIs is already all in you - perfect eternal Buddahood, a thousand unborn souls that we each carry with us until they are born - is waiting for you to remember !... ( 35 - 55 mg) I can't wait to find out what you'll type once you get a full 50 mg vaporized ! ... 20 pages or maybe nothing... the 'lights of the lower bardo' are mustard green if that's your mood ... that's dose dependant too I bet 5 - 15 mg for an orgy of visions. This can be recreational dmt use for a few ... Dmt at >35 mg vapourized and inhaled is like getting an ego-waxing ... or a Beingasm ... sort of jubilant terror. The roller coaster leaves the tracks .. but it's ok ! .. a diving board where you can't see the bottom... An orally-active psychedelic might be a better choice for you, no .? And definately one's recent diet affects the dmt- trip - if you eat beans and bacon (apparently) you flood your body's MAO enzymes with their substrarte (.?tyrosine..?), so smoke dmt 45 minutes after a big fat breakfast of beans and pork..! Also I just wonder if I had to grow an 'old' enough brain to either need, or seek what dmt can do to you ... at half my age, I might have not wanted a Beingasm ... Just like when you were a child, did we all know wtf was happening during our first orgasms..? it took practice, letting go, and going for it ! ..! and in teh mean time, here on Earth, analytical newb's like me enjoy reading these kinds of things; http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1627 Raid517 I re-read your previous posts; we are stuck in duality - we are stuck in language - we wake up laminated to a broken-up reality labelled with words where duality defines everything. But, have you ever experienced what is sometimes called a 'unitary' state of being/consciousness..? the AllThatIs White Light..? I finally did with dmt and found that to be so perfectly liberating and healing for the ol' ego ! It took me until age 40 to find the 'button in my head' that I could press (with dmt) to get this experience of ultimate 'oness' .. It sounded like a corny-line until I finally 'died' ... I had my ego flip inside out after one proper toke ... I was NOT recreational; but it ws blissfull to discover this ... ! And I will do it again ... ! Once you hit that state - there is no more to go! Some may choose to never 'die' again until they finally do decease, at old age ! And btw, I think the "have one child" business by McKenna had to do with creating a future generation of enlightened Homo Sapiens, one that will replace the old decrepid, dualistic mentality we have today . It had nothing to do with population control..?! But seriously raid517, one day you'll re extract properly, using cold ACID extraction first to get the yellow oils and 'yuremamine' mystery alkaloids out too. Then with simple evaporation of the the naphtha, get a crop of perfect crystals. Try again with just 150 g of MHRB - this will yield at least 1.05 g dmt ... You will never want to be with out an emergency stash of MHRB again !
Well I think really, as a true skeptic and rationalist (in all things, not just things of this nature) one should probably repeat an experience at least twice before forming a full opinion. So perhaps a slow recrystallization tek and an attempt to produce some genuinely nice white spice might be an answer for SWIM - as least purely for reference sake. It is doubtful that he will repeat the experience for a very long time (or again if at all), or at least until he can in some way be certain that he is in absolutely the right time and place in order to do this. But as an artifact and a keepsake, perhaps he will refer back to his supply at some point in the future. He remains concerned about the possible artificial nature of not just the experience itself, but the sheer artificiality of even the feeling that the experience invoked. Also by smoking it, snorting it, injecting it, shoving it up your butt, it is easy to see how any sense of naturalness could be completely lost in this. [quote:903138c385]And btw, I think the "have one child" business by McKenna had to do with creating a future generation of enlightened Homo Sapiens, one that will replace the old decrepit, dualistic mentality we have today [/quote:903138c385] Yes well I remain a skeptic about McKenna (and the others too). I think perhaps certain drugs under certain circumstances can provide a degree of personal insight - but as a means of overcoming the problems of the larger world, it seems much less likely. I am simply seeking the former of these, the latter unfortunately remains beyond even far more intelligent men than McKenna to resolve at this time.
zero
Rising Star
Wo, this thread has just gotten exhausting to read. If I read it correctly... you're basically passing your judgement and opinion of the collective worth of the DMT experience solely by one 50mg insufflated (not insufucated) experience? To be clear... all of your statements are derived from snorting 50mg of DMT once? Is that correct? And to think that this could mapped out and judged after 2 tries is just as foolish. If that is the case it almost seems futile to even respond to such silliness. The fact is that this is analogous to you telling me all about the plot and worth of a great novel after reading the first 10 pages. Yawn.
DMTripper
John Murdoch IV
I don't have much experience with DMT but a lot of experience with shrooms. I think you need more experience with these compounds before you will have something deep and meaningful coming out of them. My first trips with shrooms was just me in cartoonland laughing my ass off. Later shrooms showed me some of the greatest truths I've known. I had to first learn that there was something more going on behind the curtains of my trips and then I had to learn to access those realms and understand them. And I'm still learning. It's a reason why shamanic training takes so long. And actually these shamans say they are constantly learning more. I'm not saying here that DMT can offer us something. I wouldn't know 'cause I only have a little experience. I'm just saying the same as others here, I think you need to read more than 10 pages.
[quote:7f485af797="zero"]Wo, this thread has just gotten exhausting to read. If I read it correctly... you're basically passing your judgement and opinion of the collective worth of the DMT experience solely by one 50mg insufflated (not insufucated) experience? To be clear... all of your statements are derived from snorting 50mg of DMT once? Is that correct? And to think that this could mapped out and judged after 2 tries is just as foolish. If that is the case it almost seems futile to even respond to such silliness. The fact is that this is analogous to you telling me all about the plot and worth of a great novel after reading the first 10 pages. Yawn.[/quote:7f485af797] [quote:7f485af797="zero"]Wo, this thread has just gotten exhausting to read. If I read it correctly... you're basically passing your judgment and opinion of the collective worth of the DMT experience solely by one 50mg insufflated (not insufucated) experience? To be clear... all of your statements are derived from snorting 50mg of DMT once? Is that correct? And to think that this could mapped out and judged after 2 tries is just as foolish. If that is the case it almost seems futile to even respond to such silliness. The fact is that this is analogous to you telling me all about the plot and worth of a great novel after reading the first 10 pages. Yawn.[/quote:7f485af797] I understand your bitterness and your disappointment. You are clearly under the impression that I am being in some way critical of the world that you believe has value for you. (Hence the somewhat feeble attacks concerning irrelevant typos/spellchecker errors). But this is not the case, I am speaking from my own perspective and the experience WAS full on enough to form more than a reasonable judgment - at least for me. If you can recommend a way that I can somehow overcome the sheer artificiality of the experience I encountered, then perhaps I could learn more from it. But overall I was concious of the experience enough to be aware of how inorganic it felt - it simply did not meld in as clean a way with my psyche as other substances have in the past. In any case, if this thread is going to take on a flaming tone, it is only likely that it will dissuade me further from repeating the experience in the future. This is often the case with matters of this nature, whereby individuals claim to be participating in a universal community, or to be a part of a wider consciousness, or to be part of a spirit of 'oneness' with all things and all people. (In fact this thin veil of community is common to almost all drug cultures and drug types I have encountered). However as soon as anyone dares to appear to be in any way 'critical' of these assumptions (even if in many cases they in actual fact are not being critical at all) this sense of 'community' often dissolves into bickering and arguments and those individuals who may not fully agree can find themselves being shunned. However, for me the question remains that if you cannot look at such matters with a critical eye, if you cannot maintain your skepticism, how can you ever truly learn anything of value? How can you ever hope to take anything concrete or meaningful from anything you do? In any case I am not being critical of this experience, or of this community - I am simply stating that I maintained enough presence of mind throughout to be able to gauge how useful and meaningful it was likely to be to me. I understand that some people here might find it useful and meaningful to them - and I accept this fully. But it s unfair to assume that this will always be the case for everyone. I think it is certainly useful to inject a note of skepticism into this thread (and into these forum posts at large), since it will at least allow anyone contemplating engaging on this path to enter it with an objective eye. Two perspectives are always better than one in my view - and even if someone did not find value in this experience, it should not appear as a threat to anyone who feels that it did have value for them. Besides which, I am not going to spend my time attempting to establish my psychedelic credentials. At 40 years old however, suffice to say that substances such as LSD, mushrooms - and pretty much the entire spectrum of legal and illegal substances hold little or no surprises for me. There have however been occasions in the past where (as I said) certain substances have provided me with useful personal insight. However I remain uncertain whether DMT (whether one experience or 10 experiences) would be capable of fitting into this category. (Again, at least for me). I am not (as someone who is open to genuine personal growth and self exploration) ruling it out entirely. But perhaps if I can put some distance between me and the entirely unnatural and often arduous process of extracting this substance (perhaps say several months) my memory of this period might wane and my curiosity might be spiked again.
zero
Rising Star
Man... I am neither bitter nor disappointed. Yes, you're opinion is totally valid. However, I simply pointed out that you're judging something a little hastily in my opinion. The difference in subjective effects can be vast everytime DMT is used. You certainly wont have the same experience twice. The nature of the experience is mysterious in that it changes constantly. I have had extremely natural and organic feeling experiences as well as very mechanical, machine-like, future induced alien connections... and I've learned from both. It sounds like I offended YOU in some way but that wasn't my intention. I corrected your spelling for informational purposes only because it was just entirely the wrong word. One thing that will add is that if you were thinking about whether or not the experience was good for you DURING THE EXPERIENCE, then you certainly weren't anywhere near the realm that DMT can take you to. And maybe you dont want to be, thats completely understandable, it's not for everyone. I think you would find great wisdom and room for serious personal exploration with Ayahuasca though man. It doesnt get more natural and organic feeling than that, period.
Garulfo
Rising Star
[quote:df6e1a08b3]Nonetheless I still found the experience to be entirely false and artificial.[/quote:df6e1a08b3] SWIM also had that feeling. He felt clearly that the 'enligthment' was true but artificial. Artificial does not obviously means 'false' ! Associating the two words is a way of thinking. Like saying that a good wine is 'natural' and a coca-cola is 'artificial'. Both are somehow good or bad for health, both are extremly different but both are liquids that can be enjoyable althought many people would say that coca is just evil and horribly artificial. I enjoy both depending on the time... 8) Also the visuals provoked by the DMT are felt as 'artificial' because (unless exception) nobody have the feeling that they are made by 'the will'. It's like a movie, but a rational mind can not believe that they are 'external' (therefore artificial). Not more than a dream. Some part of you are obviously making that visuals and you can not say that some part of you are 'artificial' unless you are a bionic man 
I see it that way : The DMT molecule have the ability to 'fire' some neuron networks (visuals by ex) and to make some others sleeping/disrupted (like self-body feelings). This creates some intense imagery that can not be achieved without that artificial and external source of energy. but it's just some energy. What 'you' do with that energy is not artificial and what you may reveal thru this experience is not artificial because it's YOU.
I see it that way : The DMT molecule have the ability to 'fire' some neuron networks (visuals by ex) and to make some others sleeping/disrupted (like self-body feelings). This creates some intense imagery that can not be achieved without that artificial and external source of energy. but it's just some energy. What 'you' do with that energy is not artificial and what you may reveal thru this experience is not artificial because it's YOU.