4+g of Cubes vs. 1.5g Pans with MAOI

[brainbutter]

My first cubensis experience was with 3 grams with an intention to 'party'. It was a beautiful experience, especially when combined with some lovely music.

My 2nd experience was with around 4.5g of cubes. It was fundamentally different, with massive anxiety on the 'come-up'. After the initial panic and anxiety faded away (at about the 90 min mark), it turned into the most amazing trip, full of love and devoid of fear. Bright, complex, undecipherable open & closed eye visuals. It taught me a lot about myself and brought me to the brink of a full ego-death (which i had previously experienced on DMT). It had the same tone, the same vibrational hypnotic effect as my high dose DMT trip, but my ego held onto reality and i remained fully conscious throughout.

My 3rd experience involved 1.5g of pan cyans (blue meanies) after consuming 2-3g of syrian rue seeds for two days prior to ingesting the cyans. I wasn't expecting too deep of a trip, but those pan cyans are another entity altogether. The trip wasn't as bright as the cube experience, but i still felt anxiety on the 'come-up'. I also experienced open & closed eye visuals, of a different level. There was a deep sense of foreboding, the hallucinations weren't as vivid, but lasted for at least 3 hours. I rode it out and was very much a mere observer. I looked into the woods from my front deck and noticed a tree morph into a multi-headed, pixelated dragon. I also had the same synesthesia with music, which made the trip much more beautiful that it would have been. The strange thing was how long the visual distortions lasted. 12 hours later (the next morning at a drive through coffee shop) i was still experiencing visual distortions (if i allowed myself to remain focused on a certain scene for more than about 10 seconds).

I realize that my mindset certainly played a role in my experience, along with the addition of the MAOI's. I also know that the psilocybin/psilocin ratios are quite different in these two strains, which may (possibly?!?) play in a role in the longevity of the visual effects.

Does anyone else have thoughts on different psilocybin mushroom strains & how it can affect your experience?

 

[Th Entity]

Yes, the ratios of psilocybin/psilocin are different in most strains you cant predict that, even same species can/will have different ratios of compounds in them based on their growing enviroment.

Except psilocybin/psilocin ratios one must keep in mind other factors like: set and setting, your brain chemistry that day/night, what you ate, what you drank, how fast are different strains digested, what other compounds are in the strains that synergise in some way with the psilo/cybin/cin etc..

I somewhere read that combining Psilocybin containing mushrooms with MAOI was the closest thing in nature to smoked DMT freebase, have you writen a trip report?

:thumb_up:

 

[brainbutter]

I have only reported on my DMT experience so far, but i did journal everything from my mushroom experiences. I will certainly format/edit my musings and post something soon.

The mushroom experiences I've had did seem slightly more coherent than the 30+ DMT trips.

I've also been microdosing cyans, which has yielded mixed results. It's been wonderful in my personal life, not so good in the corporate atmosphere of my current employment. Huge corporations and their policies don't gel with my newfound ethical point-of-views.

 

[Th Entity]

not so good in the corporate atmosphere of my current employment. Huge corporations and their policies don't gel with my newfound ethical point-of-views.

HAHAHA :lol: :d

Two of Terence Mckenna's speeches came to my mind immedietly.
Terence Mckenna - DMT is Everything!
Terence Mckenna - Trust Yourself

Back to the topic, i would love to read a trip report on the Cyans + Maoi combo.

Edit: WoW i just watched one of your videos on YT, intense and interesting!

 

[brewster]

Nice writeup!
I never combined Shrooms with MAOIs, but I've had many journeys on both cubensis and blues, in moderate and high doses.
Once, I had several grams of dried blues (stupid... but I was lucky, it was a spectacular experience). After that, I had distortions for weeks. All was normal, but once I looked at one spot for longer than a few moments, it started to warp and melt.

I was very worried, but this passed after a while. This was one of the signs to take a break though...

As for the come-up anxiety: very interesting. I never experienced this, on the contrary. I always have had strong emotions when the effects started to kick in, but they were of great excitement and euphoria. Similar to sitting in a powerful sports car that is accelerating at full throttle. Or, maybe, more like an A-Wing? Whatever

 

[brainbutter]

not so good in the corporate atmosphere of my current employment. Huge corporations and their policies don't gel with my newfound ethical point-of-views.

HAHAHA :lol: :d

Two of Terence Mckenna's speeches came to my mind immedietly.
Terence Mckenna - DMT is Everything!
Terence Mckenna - Trust Yourself

Back to the topic, i would love to read a trip report on the Cyans + Maoi combo.

Edit: WoW i just watched one of your videos on YT, intense and interesting!

I do enjoy some McKenna. Ty, I'm going to check out those links.

I will post a report on the maoi/pans experience soon, it was a strange one for sure.

Re: The video.
hahaha, if my ego hadn't been humbled so much, i wouldn't have EVER posted that video.
My wife insisted i record the experience so she would have a 'witness', just in case i did anything crazy. Which i kind of did. It's hard to believe that video shows "the most profound experience of my life" and completely wiped out my depression, guilt, anger, etc... it's hard for me to believe when i watched it back. DMT is a miracle in my life.

 

[brainbutter]

Nice writeup!
I never combined Shrooms with MAOIs, but I've had many journeys on both cubensis and blues, in moderate and high doses.
Once, I had several grams of dried blues (stupid... but I was lucky, it was a spectacular experience). After that, I had distortions for weeks. All was normal, but once I looked at one spot for longer than a few moments, it started to warp and melt.

I was very worried, but this passed after a while. This was one of the signs to take a break though...

As for the come-up anxiety: very interesting. I never experienced this, on the contrary. I always have had strong emotions when the effects started to kick in, but they were of great excitement and euphoria. Similar to sitting in a powerful sports car that is accelerating at full throttle. Or, maybe, more like an A-Wing? Whatever

Wow, i am impressed that you haven't had an anxiety attack on the higher doses. I think i have lived my life as a very scared individual, not brave at all.

I have lived my life in the 'flight' response mode, but more often it's a 'freeze' response, where i would almost collapse into the fetal position when faced with what i deem a threat to my survival. hahaha, man, it's good to laugh at my weaknesses!

My wife can eat mushrooms, feel it coming on and immediately lay down and fall unconscious/asleep, into that crazy realm of impossibility. She also doesn't get anxious about what i see as a 'system failure' in your head. A good failure, but nonetheless, something is askew!

Do you consider yourself a fight or flight person?

 

[Legarto Rey]

I've never been largely impressed with the qualitative difference in trips induced by various cubensis strains or between species of psilocybin mushrooms. Quantitative differences can be quite variable. Psilocybin is converted to psilocin in the gut.

Now, "psilohuasca" does seem to "alter" the experience, qualitatively and dose wise. Pre-dosing with RIMA seems to mitigate "come-up" anxiety, reduce effective dose required and extend the trip by @15-30%. My experience has been with rue and moclobemide.


Comparing enterally delivered tryptaminics(mushrooms, aya/anahuasca, LSD) to vaped/smoked DMT or even Salvia extracts seems difficult. The psychodynamics are so divergent 'twixt these ROAs as to render comparisons unenlightening.


Wish I could find some, Pan cyans! I've only experienced, Pan subbalteatus, wild harvested. They were good, but relatively impotent.


Peace

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Ooof. Seeing the title made me think of my third mushroom trip... lol. O what a fool I was!!

1st trip: ~5 grams cubensis, eaten in small portions between 3pm and like 9 pm. Due to never having tripped, I didn't eat them all at once. Nor had I heard of Terrence McKenna or the nexus - this was in 2005. The experience was amazing!!! I didn't have anxiety, the hallucinations were incredible!

2nd trip: 1.5 grams cubensis - i felt it was lackluster compared to the first trip.

3rd trip: ***sighs first*** well you know how things were when you were 20 years old? More is better, right? Right...... well. My brilliant young self compared the two experiences and decided: "if 5 grams was awesome, and 1.5 was meh, them 7 grams should be great!!! Yeah. They were pan cyans. I didn't know the difference at the time; just thought "hmm, these look different" - nom nom nom nom... mind you, we're still in 2007 at this time.

I can safely say that is one of the top two contenders of: "ACY's worst choice of drug quantity" The other contender is an embarrassingly higher dose of LSD.

As you can imagine, the pan cyans wrecked me. I would not go near mushrooms until 2013. It was horrendous. I mean, now-a-day it would have been manageable - not easily, but manageable. Let's forget about all the fine details and skip to: "when I realized I may have made a huge mistake." There are two others involved: Bret and x-gf. Bret ate about a gram and a half, x-gf said, "i'm going to bed, yall have fun with that."

So, fast forward some: Bret and I were in the living room watching television. Not a great idea, but I didn't really know what was coming. He had put 'family guy' on the TV, and we were just waiting for the mushrooms to kick in. I was watching the screen, and then things began to feel very strange. Dismissing the feeling, I just fixated on the television. But, there was no avoiding what followed.

Rapid onset seemed to instantly turn on. Imagine the onset of DMT - usually a minute or so before you can take the hit, set the pipe down, and get into position before GONE. Well, this was like an extended version, stretched out to roughly 5-7 mins. In that span, things went from weird to chaos. I had no idea what was happening... because i looked down at my hands and noticed that they were breaking apart into little pieces and then "atomizing and swirling away into the wind of the ceiling fan." Well, this was alarming and that's when I began to realize how much I had messed up. Pardon my language- this time the language is appropriate to describe the feeling.

I started screaming for help. Bret didn't really know what to do, because I was yelling, "call the fucking ambulance! Call the ambulance! I'm disappearing!!! I fucked up man! Call the ambulance!"

So, he managed to get me to the bedroom where a sleeping xgf was quickly woken. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like, "hey, I don't know what you want to do about this but...eh... he's freaking out."

I kept begging for the ambulance as my world was distorted and vaporized into nothingness. Eventually, xgf asked, "what will the ambulance do for you?"

"JUST CALL THEM! THEY CAN STOP ME FROM DISAPPEARING!" Well they got a laugh out of that and tried to reassure me that I was most certainly not disappearing. I didn't believe them. At that time, "I" was just a swirling cloud of particles that seemed to be interacting with themselves by grouping together as fractals before dissolving again.

Finally, they managed to get me to take a xanax, and xgf said, "ok, you and him (Bret) got yourselves into this, you two are going to have to figure it out. I am going to bed." So, they ushered me back to the living room, which is where I stayed until the xanax kicked in and things started to settle. The next morning, I vowed to never eat mushrooms again. That lasted for a while. It wasn't until 2013 that I decided to give them a second chance. I proceeded with extreme caution - with the fear of a repeat from 2007. It took a long time to confront this fear. I had to work up to larger doses in a slow and patient manner.

Luckily, you have the nexus for guidance! I had no guidance. I just did what I thought would be "fun." So! Be careful with those pans... you never know when you might accidentally disappear.


Take Care,
ACY

 

[doubledog]

I have experience with various species of shrooms (cubensis, semilanceata/strictipes, pan cyans, moravica, serbica) and think all are sligthly different.

Cubensis are for me bodily grounded with less intense and less colourful visions, but with stronger focus on personal content. Their teaching style is loud, little bit aggresive and pushy

while fresh moravica are more electric, effects are cleaner, easier, with beuatiful ornamental visions more close to dmt and not so seriously psychoanalytical. teaching style more friendly and calm, would say intellectual.

I dont claim this is the case for everyone, these are my personal views.

 

[brainbutter]

Wow

Hahaha, omg, i enjoyed reading that my friend.

I know at 4g+ of cubes i almost had another DMT style ego dissolution moment, so 7g of pans would be incredibly intense. Phew, I cant even imagine how that anxiety would have felt, but i can imagine the relief once that xan started to kick in.

I hope to try 3g of pans with a pre dose of 3g rue, but i dont know when. I intend on having a guide next time. Last time i took the maoi-pans combo, my wife didnt know i had taken them, until i was nuts deep in the 'come up' and face down in bed. That's when she decided to watch Charlie fucking Chan at high volume in the same room. 1950 TV murder plots with racially insensitive fake Chinese accents isnt ideal for tripping There were blood curdling screams from frightened 'dames', over-acted, but capable of fucking with a psychedelic mindscape in ways i can conservatively state as 'disturbing'.

Thankfully, i had my phone and headphones, so after 10-20 mins, i was able to feel my way to a pile of my wifes clothes in the bathroom floor, where i got fetal by the heater vent. Turned out to be a pleasant experience, but very different from the vivid nature of the 4g cubes.

Anyway, i rambled a bit, but i appreciate the information about your brutal experience. Glad u avoided an ambulance ride, because im sure that would have only made things much worse. Thank God for benzos, the only good use for those compounds.

Cheers

 

[brainbutter]

I have experience with various species of shrooms (cubensis, semilanceata/strictipes, pan cyans, moravica, serbica) and think all are sligthly different.

Cubensis are for me bodily grounded with less intense and less colourful visions, but with stronger focus on personal content. Their teaching style is loud, little bit aggresive and pushy

while fresh moravica are more electric, effects are cleaner, easier, with beuatiful ornamental visions more close to dmt and not so seriously psychoanalytical. teaching style more friendly and calm, would say intellectual.

I dont claim this is the case for everyone, these are my personal views.

Thanks for your input, ive never heard of moravica, prior to this thread. Gonna do some research on that strain.

 

[brainbutter]

I've never been largely impressed with the qualitative difference in trips induced by various cubensis strains or between species of psilocybin mushrooms. Quantitative differences can be quite variable. Psilocybin is converted to psilocin in the gut.

Now, "psilohuasca" does seem to "alter" the experience, qualitatively and dose wise. Pre-dosing with RIMA seems to mitigate "come-up" anxiety, reduce effective dose required and extend the trip by @15-30%. My experience has been with rue and moclobemide.


Comparing enterally delivered tryptaminics(mushrooms, aya/anahuasca, LSD) to vaped/smoked DMT or even Salvia extracts seems difficult. The psychodynamics are so divergent 'twixt these ROAs as to render comparisons unenlightening.


Wish I could find some, Pan cyans! I've only experienced, Pan subbalteatus, wild harvested. They were good, but relatively impotent.


Peace

I wish I could show you this one pasture i have visited. On one visit, i saw 4+ pounds fresh pans. My friend had dried and put them in vitamin capsules, stored air tight in freezer. I took 2 capsules at .80g in each one two months after harvesting for a 'fun time/small dose", thought that maybe the effectivress of the psilocybin/psilocin was degraded.....didnt realize the maoi would be in my system the next day, but it definitely potentiated the effect.

I agree its hard to interpret the qualitative effects with any psychedelics, but it intrigues me how different the experiences feel.

 

[doubledog]

it is not very known wild growing type of shrooms, maybe it could be misidentified as P. bohemica, as it can be found in the same woody locations in Czech republic. Big disadvantage is that they loose potency when dried.

For most people here probably unaccessible, but it belongs to cyanescens-like family, so I assume P. cyanescens could be somehow similar.

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Wow

Hahaha, omg, i enjoyed reading that my friend.

I know at 4g+ of cubes i almost had another DMT style ego dissolution moment, so 7g of pans would be incredibly intense. Phew, I cant even imagine how that anxiety would have felt, but i can imagine the relief once that xan started to kick in.

I hope to try 3g of pans with a pre dose of 3g rue, but i dont know when. I intend on having a guide next time. Last time i took the maoi-pans combo, my wife didnt know i had taken them, until i was nuts deep in the 'come up' and face down in bed. That's when she decided to watch Charlie fucking Chan at high volume in the same room. 1950 TV murder plots with racially insensitive fake Chinese accents isnt ideal for tripping There were blood curdling screams from frightened 'dames', over-acted, but capable of fucking with a psychedelic mindscape in ways i can conservatively state as 'disturbing'.

Thankfully, i had my phone and headphones, so after 10-20 mins, i was able to feel my way to a pile of my wifes clothes in the bathroom floor, where i got fetal by the heater vent. Turned out to be a pleasant experience, but very different from the vivid nature of the 4g cubes.

Anyway, i rambled a bit, but i appreciate the information about your brutal experience. Glad u avoided an ambulance ride, because im sure that would have only made things much worse. Thank God for benzos, the only good use for those compounds.

Cheers

I tossed you a bonus vote. Looks like you're a full member.


Yeah man!!! My wife loves watching weird murder stuff, too. I have to either tune it out or put headphones on - and that's while being sober!

The murder stuff always makes me feel uncomfortable. It just feels unnatural.

I'm glad you were able to get to a comfortable space. My wife is pretty cool about my psychedelic use. I hardly partake, any more; but I used to assemble my tent in our living room (my safety zone). When she saw the tent come out, she'd say, "Am I going to find you passed out, naked, in there in the morning, again?" Followed with laughter.

Me: "Yeah, probably."

I wish you a wonderful journey on your next ride with the pans! Maybe they'll find me, and I'll offer an attempt at redemption.


Take care!!
ACY

Oh yeah! Yes, benzos can be useful for such situations. That's why I don't raise my nose at them. Abuse and use are quite different beasts!

 

[brainbutter]

I tossed you a bonus vote. Looks like you're a full member.


Yeah man!!! My wife loves watching weird murder stuff, too. I have to either tune it out or put headphones on - and that's while being sober!

The murder stuff always makes me feel uncomfortable. It just feels unnatural.

I'm glad you were able to get to a comfortable space. My wife is pretty cool about my psychedelic use. I hardly partake, any more; but I used to assemble my tent in our living room (my safety zone). When she saw the tent come out, she'd say, "Am I going to find you passed out, naked, in there in the morning, again?" Followed with laughter.

Me: "Yeah, probably."

I wish you a wonderful journey on your next ride with the pans! Maybe they'll find me, and I'll offer an attempt at redemption.


Take care!!
ACY

Oh yeah! Yes, benzos can be useful for such situations. That's why I don't raise my nose at them. Abuse and use are quite different beasts!

Thanks so much for the vote. It did indeed upgrade me to full membership. Very kind of you, i appreciate it and will continue with my quest to gain and share knowledge.

I love the idea of a tent in the living roon, for that matter, a tent in the woods sounds good when it warms up a bit. Apart from the odd mountain lion, my area is devoid of predatory wildlife.

My wife will partake in smaller doses of psychedelics, of the edible kind. That DMT or changa does a number on her lungs though, so she now avoids that substance altogether.

Has your wife ever experienced a psychedelic? I know it is difficult for non-partakers to understand the appeal, fear and revelatory nature of a trip.


I want someone close to me to try spice, so i can try and validate my own experiences and the subsequent personality change that takes place.

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Thanks so much for the vote. It did indeed upgrade me to full membership. Very kind of you, i appreciate it and will continue with my quest to gain and share knowledge.

I love the idea of a tent in the living roon, for that matter, a tent in the woods sounds good when it warms up a bit. Apart from the odd mountain lion, my area is devoid of predatory wildlife.

My wife will partake in smaller doses of psychedelics, of the edible kind. That DMT or changa does a number on her lungs though, so she now avoids that substance altogether.

Has your wife ever experienced a psychedelic? I know it is difficult for non-partakers to understand the appeal, fear and revelatory nature of a trip.


I want someone close to me to try spice, so i can try and validate my own experiences and the subsequent personality change that takes place.

Sure thing!

And, yes - a tent in wilderness is great! I had my first aya experience by hiking about 3 miles through a mountain trail to camp at an amazing waterfall! It was fantastic! I had 2 friends with me, though neither of them partook in the aya. I offered, but they kindly denied. That night was very special... I slept in a hammock, strung between two trees, being blasted by the raging mist of the falls.

We had arrived around 4 pm, set up camp and waited for the evening to come. I started making the brew around 6 pm, but the gusts of wind and that was flowing from the falls made it very difficult to keep the stove lit. It took a while to get the water to simmer and even longer to brew. I had it ready by ~9 pm and took the plunge. THAT was a magical night. It wasn't a typical aya experience that you read about.



Yes, my wife and I have taken psychedelics together. She will/has not consume(d) DMT, (yet?). I have offered, but she's expressed that "there is something about it, no... it just doesn't seem right." However, it'll be here when she's ready. I don't push it on her or tell her she should try it, or even tell her much about my experiences from within. Just recently, over the past month - she's begun to show some curiosity in "what exactly was it that I saw in there?"

She's eaten mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, BK-MDMA, mescaline, harmalas, LSA, and..... I think that's it?

Remember how I said:

I can safely say that is one of the top two contenders of: "ACY's worst choice of drug quantity" The other contender is an embarrassingly higher dose of LSD.

Right. She's not tripped since - it still makes her nauseous to think about. I never really told her about the things that were going on, within my selves. I was subdivided into 4 "selves" that were simultaneously existing in 4 different realities. I spoke about it in a different thread:

I have had a semi-breakthrough on LSD one time - and that was on a high dose. I'll spare the dosage information, and the reason, but it resulted into my "being" or "soul" or "spirit" or what ever you want to call it - a sense of self awareness - was divided into 4 different entities that were in different "realities," and I was experiencing them all simultaneously. However, the different "me's" would take turns swapping from reality to reality. I don't know what the purpose; most likely to deal with the situation at hand - which was INCREDIBLY difficult. I'll spare the details on that bit as well. But, a very very very difficult thing was going on in this reality, so the self decided to subdivide and allow the independent "me's" trade in and out.

Have you heard of the game musical chairs? There is music playing, and you're walking around in a circle, and when the music stops - every one quickly sits in a chair. There is always one less chair than there are people, so whoever is standing is out of the game. SO, this was like musical "selves." As we traded realities, and dealt with the situation at hand, as each layer of the difficult situation was removed, one of the realities would vanish from our awareness, and along with it would also vanish the sense of individuality of that reality. This carried on until the three layers of the difficult situation were removed, and there was only this reality left. I still had about 24 more hours of tripping before it was over, but the first 12 were as described.

The final 24 hours were still difficult, but it was a relief from the prior situation - and towards the very end, began to laugh a little - about the absurdity of what had just happened. WHAT HAD JUST HAPPENED??????? Whew. I (we?) made it out. So, in a sense, I have no idea which "self" started, and which "self" ended in this body. But it claims to be here, and has access to most of the memories and operations. So, it's fine.

I call it a semi-breakthrough, because there was always one "me" that was aware of what was going on here. However, it was indistinguishable as a defined unit within my full consciousness. During the time, I would not have been able to tell you who "I" was, because "I"(we?) was in the rotation. The realities that we were experiencing were as real as we can call this one. Three of the initial four realities (including this one) appeared to be 3 dimensional. The other one is unable to be described. It's not that I don't remember my time there.... I remember my(our?) time in all of them. However, the observation of that reality does not translate to words very well. Ineffable, we say.

So, that was that. But, yeah. There was a situation at hand. I was dealing with it one way, and she had some things that were dealt with as well. "We" had to swap places in order to bear the weight of that load. I don't think a single person could have done it.


There is a silver lining. There was a task at hand and it was accomplished. It's taken a while to really set in - but I am finally seeing the work come through. I've never offered her a psychedelic since that experience. If she wants, she knows who to ask. LOL. I've only taken LSD twice since then - it was sometime in June of 2016. One of those times was a microdose and not really noticeable. The second time was only 300 ug, but it tossed me right back into that head space of the large dose. I haven't taken LSD since then, and I think that was maybe a year and a half ago? I don't remember the specific date, it didn't matter. I decided that I could close the book for a while. I had some different stories to live.

I don't even really take psychedelics anymore, either. I'll smoke DMT once in a while; maybe eat some mescaline here and there, but I had my time. It's time for someone else to have a turn.

In a way, I've never stopped taking psychedelics. I don't think she has, either.

Take Care,
ACY