5-MeO-DMT - Hype or Hyperbole?

[Here&Now]

Yes, glad to see you back and indeed that you are still with us.
5-MeO-DMT has known mortalities associated with it, that coupled with the generally riskier solo use and the abrupt departure and absense led me to query this...thankfully was mistaken.

I hope your reset is working out well. Its definitely important to sometimes take a step back and just work on application of what one had learned in the midst of day to day life.

That's a good point about 5-MeO-DMT's reputation for being riskier than other psychedelics. I can see how someone like myself suddenly disappearing could be viewed with extra concern, which I appreciate.

My reset is going well, thanks. I've been focusing entirely on fortifying the physical, but always doing so with the intention of returning stronger and healthier for spiritual pursuits. It's similar to the story of how Bodhidharma trained the Shaolin monks in kung fu to make them more physically capable of handling intense meditation. At least that's the concept I'm drawing from, even if it is a bit presumptuous, lol.

I am reminded of the Benedicts law of the Benedictine monks; no meditation instruction at all is given in that tradition, which seems strange given a monks meditative inclination. However the reason given is that one is encouraged to find ones way and ones whole life becomes a kind of living meditation. Peak experiences and merging with Godhead have their place, but will be more beneficial if embedded within a whole lifestyle conducive to it. Theres also as you mention simply the very real physical toll of allowing these type of phenomena and energies to be channeled through the system that needs to be harnessesed appropriately.

I certainly love this idea. I mentioned above that I'm working on the physical to assist with the spiritual, but viewed more holistically, it can also be seen as a singular pursuit. I do feel like I've had a surprising amount of insights during this period, considering my state of consciousness has been far more "ordinary." I think it makes a lot of sense to openly accept our lessons in whatever form they arrive.

 

[universecannon]

Glad to see you're back @Here&Now!

 

[dithyramb]

Yeah, I was messing with dangerous wild crude oral Phalaris back in the day and actually came close to killing myself twice. And the lethal aspect of those grasses was... 5-MeO-DMT. I got a 5 phobia since then. But I didn't know it could be lethal without an maoi in reasonably well measured doses. I also didn't know of the physical toll it takes by itself. I've experienced it in miraculously healthy ratios to DMT and within the healthy medicinal signature of Phragmites, in combination with rue since then. İts presence seems to be strain specific in phragmites, and I am so extensively experienced with this species that I am always comfortable with it and trust it fully. A teeny tiny bit as it is found in phragmites, when it is found at all, seems healthy to me. Welcome back @Here&Now ! You guys know I have my periods of in and out of this place, but my tendency seems to be towards posting less in the long term. At least you guys are assured I am safe.

 

[Panpsychic]

My reset is going well, thanks. I've been focusing entirely on fortifying the physical, but always doing so with the intention of returning stronger and healthier for spiritual pursuits. It's similar to the story of how Bodhidharma trained the Shaolin monks in kung fu to make them more physically capable of handling intense meditation. At least that's the concept I'm drawing from, even if it is a bit presumptuous, lol.

Interesting that you mention this, I have done martial arts myself for a long time and while I have long recognized the parrallel in developing that meditative mindset and Zen attitude, I hadn't really considered actual physical strengthening as a necessity.

I have experienced on occasion this intense physical side with Harmala + DMT and with shrooms where it seemed very overwhelming almost and a physical chore, but these experiences were few and far between where the physical component felt like it was a significant drain, certainly never something I felt needed specific training or that was a consistent part of the experience.

It makes sense however as we have discussed 5-MeO-DMT is something very different, activation of the Kundalini system is like connecting yourself to a lighting rod of God Consciousness and one wouldnt expect it to be easy in any way.

The yoga traditions are also intensive physical and mental training that will also strengthen the body and mind for this type of experience, so it is an expected part of the process. When you say therefore you are fortifying the physical for the spiritual, what aspects of the physical do you feel are going to be most needed to be doing work with the substance again, and has the 5-MeO-DMT showed you specific ways or excercises even, anything akin to an internal physical yoga template to develop?

 

[Here&Now]

Interesting that you mention this, I have done martial arts myself for a long time and while I have long recognized the parrallel in developing that meditative mindset and Zen attitude, I hadn't really considered actual physical strengthening as a necessity.

I have experienced on occasion this intense physical side with Harmala + DMT and with shrooms where it seemed very overwhelming almost and a physical chore, but these experiences were few and far between where the physical component felt like it was a significant drain, certainly never something I felt needed specific training or that was a consistent part of the experience.

It makes sense however as we have discussed 5-MeO-DMT is something very different, activation of the Kundalini system is like connecting yourself to a lighting rod of God Consciousness and one wouldnt expect it to be easy in any way.

The yoga traditions are also intensive physical and mental training that will also strengthen the body and mind for this type of experience, so it is an expected part of the process. When you say therefore you are fortifying the physical for the spiritual, what aspects of the physical do you feel are going to be most needed to be doing work with the substance again, and has the 5-MeO-DMT showed you specific ways or excercises even, anything akin to an internal physical yoga template to develop?

That's a great question, because a claim of training the physical can be a nebulous concept without further explanation.

In my particular case, I guess I'm referring to a few things. For one, I've gotten back into lifting weights with the goal of reinforcing the scaffolding of my body, including connective tissue, joints, and most specifically, the spine. Like I briefly mentioned before, I'm getting a little older now (40+), and chronic pain is a reality that I deal with. Beyond the pain reduction, strengthening and growing muscles has a giant list of health benefits that will simply make existence easier. A few carryovers to more effective spiritual practice are a lack of distracting discomfort, a more effortless awareness of the moment, and the raw strength to hold myself up and remain unbothered for extended lengths of time.

For me, focusing on the physical also means eating as healthy as I can, getting enough sleep, losing excess fat, and just a solid attempt in general to make the right choices and live up to any potential I may have.

The following is purely speculation on my part. The toll I previously mentioned that 5-MeO-DMT takes is not only the mental fatigue from the intensity of the experience. While the releasing of the molecule into the system surely finds the appropriate receptors for the desired effect, I suspect the systemic flooding into the body creates a slightly unnatural condition. I couldn't tell you the exact differences between the release of endogenous 5-MeO-DMT from an advanced meditator entering samadhi (assuming that's scientifically accurate) and a psychedelically assisted practitioner utilizing the substance, but based on my subjective experience, I believe there is likely a meaningful distinction to be made in terms of the temporary health aftereffects. Despite how enlightening the revelations always are, I can't always claim to feel great for a day or so afterwards.

That's not to say 5-MeO-DMT shouldn't be used extensively by anyone who's looking for an astronomical boost in their practice. And similar to how a younger person can frequently drink alcohol and be seemingly unaffected by hangovers, some people probably won't even have the type of issue I'm describing. I'm also not convinced that weekly use of 5-MeO-DMT would have a cumulating negative effect on health in general. But the acute aftereffects of a hangover-like sensation can become more and more bothersome to those whose physical resiliencies to external chemicals have become fragile with age and receding health. So my hope is to turn back the clock and regain some of my youthful resiliency. I feel it'll be vital in my 5-MeO-DMT-assisted practices and beyond.

 

[Panpsychic]

That's a great question, because a claim of training the physical can be a nebulous concept without further explanation.

In my particular case, I guess I'm referring to a few things. For one, I've gotten back into lifting weights with the goal of reinforcing the scaffolding of my body, including connective tissue, joints, and most specifically, the spine. Like I briefly mentioned before, I'm getting a little older now (40+), and chronic pain is a reality that I deal with. Beyond the pain reduction, strengthening and growing muscles has a giant list of health benefits that will simply make existence easier. A few carryovers to more effective spiritual practice are a lack of distracting discomfort, a more effortless awareness of the moment, and the raw strength to hold myself up and remain unbothered for extended lengths of time.

For me, focusing on the physical also means eating as healthy as I can, getting enough sleep, losing excess fat, and just a solid attempt in general to make the right choices and live up to any potential I may have.

The following is purely speculation on my part. The toll I previously mentioned that 5-MeO-DMT takes is not only the mental fatigue from the intensity of the experience. While the releasing of the molecule into the system surely finds the appropriate receptors for the desired effect, I suspect the systemic flooding into the body creates a slightly unnatural condition. I couldn't tell you the exact differences between the release of endogenous 5-MeO-DMT from an advanced meditator entering samadhi (assuming that's scientifically accurate) and a psychedelically assisted practitioner utilizing the substance, but based on my subjective experience, I believe there is likely a meaningful distinction to be made in terms of the temporary health aftereffects. Despite how enlightening the revelations always are, I can't always claim to feel great for a day or so afterwards.

That's not to say 5-MeO-DMT shouldn't be used extensively by anyone who's looking for an astronomical boost in their practice. And similar to how a younger person can frequently drink alcohol and be seemingly unaffected by hangovers, some people probably won't even have the type of issue I'm describing. I'm also not convinced that weekly use of 5-MeO-DMT would have a cumulating negative effect on health in general. But the acute aftereffects of a hangover-like sensation can become more and more bothersome to those whose physical resiliencies to external chemicals have become fragile with age and receding health. So my hope is to turn back the clock and regain some of my youthful resiliency. I feel it'll be vital in my 5-MeO-DMT-assisted practices and beyond.

Thats interesting, I wonder if there are more specific practices that can be developed or revealed conducive to the unfolding of Kundalini itself.

I mentioned elsewhere that DMT + Harmalas had introduced me to this at a base level and encouraged me to develop a meditation practice focusing on energy chakras and the Third Eye. I didn't mention previously but it also strongly showed me that alongside this I should develop my martial arts - this was the message received to develop both of these strongly in tandem. I hadn't mentioned it prior because I didn't think they were related so interpreted that as a personal direction, but now that you mention this physical aspect they may go hand in hand, particularly still forms that encourage strengthening of the stance and other limbs with breathing for long periods, which comes back to the legend of Bodhidharma.

So it may be that there are limits with how far one can go without the physical concurrent training to allow these energies to work on the system which is potentially important to know, although as you mention others may not have these same issues so its hard to say if its universal but it makes sense that this is a part of the process.

 

[Here&Now]

Thats interesting, I wonder if there are more specific practices that can be developed or revealed conducive to the unfolding of Kundalini itself.

I mentioned elsewhere that DMT + Harmalas had introduced me to this at a base level and encouraged me to develop a meditation practice focusing on energy chakras and the Third Eye. I didn't mention previously but it also strongly showed me that alongside this I should develop my martial arts - this was the message received to develop both of these strongly in tandem. I hadn't mentioned it prior because I didn't think they were related so interpreted that as a personal direction, but now that you mention this physical aspect they may go hand in hand, particularly still forms that encourage strengthening of the stance and other limbs with breathing for long periods, which comes back to the legend of Bodhidharma.

So it may be that there are limits with how far one can go without the physical concurrent training to allow these energies to work on the system which is potentially important to know, although as you mention others may not have these same issues so its hard to say if its universal but it makes sense that this is a part of the process.

There are for sure practices that help with Kundalini, subtle energies, and the subtle body in general. Not surprisingly, I think of them as subtle-level practices; occupying a kind of interstitial space between the mind and body, and ultimately acting as a connection and gateway to the source of all things.

I guess in my mental map, I don't strictly consider this aspect as physical, but I suppose it wouldn't be strictly mental either. For that reason, I didn't mention it in my posts above, but I do totally plan to advance my persistent awareness of this sensual field as much as possible.

My go-to for this type of practice is from Eckhart Tolle's writings. They may seem overly simplistic at first, but that's actually where they gain their advantage. I feel it's important to remember that we're discussing an experiential skill, controlled via kinesthetic sensation. For example, the skill of throwing a baseball involves a symphony of muscle movements, with each one of them involving an intuitive firing in the correct sequence. An awful lot can be said intellectually about how that ball is thrown, but attempting to utilize that knowledge in the practice of the sport itself can often cloud the truth of the technique, which should be as natural as a baby taking its first steps. In my experience, these practices have that in common.

Based on what you've described about your own inklings, I think subtle-level practices would be an excellent direction to move towards. For whatever reason, it seems like even many of the great traditions mysteriously neglect this topic. In my opinion, to ignore it is to be missing a major piece of the puzzle.


"To stay present in everyday life, it helps to be deeply rooted within yourself; otherwise, the mind, which has incredible momentum, will drag you along like a wild river. It means to inhabit your body fully. To always have some of your attention in the inner energy field of your body. To feel the body from within, so to speak. Body awareness keeps you present. It anchors you in the Now.

The body that you can see and touch cannot take you into Being. But that visible and tangible body is only an outer shell, or rather a limited and distorted perception of a deeper reality. In your natural state of connectedness with Being, this deeper reality can be felt every moment as the invisible inner body, the animating presence within you. So to "inhabit the body" is to feel the body from within, to feel the life inside the body and thereby come to know that you are beyond the outer form.

You are cut off from Being as long as your mind takes up all your attention. When this happens - and it happens continuously for most people - you are not in your body. The mind absorbs all your consciousness and transforms it into mind stuff. You cannot stop thinking.

To become conscious of Being, you need to reclaim consciousness from the mind. This is one of the most essential tasks on your spiritual journey. It will free vast amounts of consciousness that previously had been trapped in useless and compulsive thinking. A very effective way of doing this is simply to take the focus of your attention away from thinking and direct it into the body, where Being can be felt in the first instance as the invisible energy field that gives life to what you perceive as the physical body."


"When you can feel the inner body clearly as a single field of energy, let go, if possible, of any visual image and focus exclusively on the feeling. If you can, also drop any mental image you may still have of the physical body. All that is left then is an all-encompassing sense of presence or "beingness," and the inner body is felt to be without a boundary.

Then take your attention even more deeply into that feeling. Become one with it. Merge with the energy field, so that there is no longer a perceived duality of the observer and the observed, of you and your body. The distinction between inner and outer also dissolves now, so there is no inner body anymore. By going deeply into the body, you have transcended the body."

 

[Here&Now]

I should also mention real quick that the use of 5-MeO-DMT makes it so much easier to feel this sensation. It's special in that way, and I've never used another psychedelic that has the same property of subtle enhancement, at least not nearly to this degree.

 

[Transform]

a claim of training the physical can be a nebulous concept without further explanation.

In my particular case, I guess I'm referring to a few things. For one, I've gotten back into lifting weights with the goal of reinforcing the scaffolding of my body, including connective tissue, joints, and most specifically, the spine. Like I briefly mentioned before, I'm getting a little older now (40+), and chronic pain is a reality that I deal with. Beyond the pain reduction, strengthening and growing muscles has a giant list of health benefits that will simply make existence easier. A few carryovers to more effective spiritual practice are a lack of distracting discomfort, a more effortless awareness of the moment, and the raw strength to hold myself up and remain unbothered for extended lengths of time.

I saw you mentioned shaolin earlier - have you come across Shi Heng Yi's training videos yet? Mrs T swears by them

 

[Here&Now]

I saw you mentioned shaolin earlier - have you come across Shi Heng Yi's training videos yet? Mrs T swears by them

I haven't seen those, but thank you very much, because I'll definitely check them out. I've taken little bits here and there from Shaolin, Taoism, and other traditions that acknowledge this aspect of spirituality, but I've never done a proper deep dive. This channel looks super digestible, so I appreciate it.