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69ron tek would appreciate some opinions on these pics
- Thread starter Fiashly
- Start date
mogascreeta
Rising Star
You could try a taste test and compare the taste of the mesc goo with the powder and also compare with a little CaOH. Mesc has a very distinct taste and so does Lime. 
Eden
Rising Star
It is most definitely lime. When adding lime after the limo, some will almost always become suspended in the solvent. Lime is absolutely horrid in dissolving in water and seems to enjoy limo quite a lot.
Because of this, it might be difficult to redissolve in a basic solution of lye...most of the lime will remain undissolved. This could then be ran through a coffee filter to remove the lime (hopefully) and then the remaining solution should be clean of the excess.
Because of this, it might be difficult to redissolve in a basic solution of lye...most of the lime will remain undissolved. This could then be ran through a coffee filter to remove the lime (hopefully) and then the remaining solution should be clean of the excess.
does lime oxidixe to mild(low ph) substance like lye does? sodium hydroxide will oxidixe to "food safe" sodiun bi-carbonate realively rapidly.
i dont see any reason to add lye at this point, what ph are you at now? if not above 11 or 12, then maybe add more base
the reason second pull Might have more: using milder base, it takes time for it to do its job
i dont see any reason to add lye at this point, what ph are you at now? if not above 11 or 12, then maybe add more base
the reason second pull Might have more: using milder base, it takes time for it to do its job
futura
Rising Star
I have done 69rons tek a few times and found that it works better for me if I did the Mesc HCL Tek rather than the Mesc Acetate Tek. I prefer the purer Mesc rather than the full spectrum alkaloids(Thats also why I used P. Torch instead of Pedro the last few times)
I would adjust the Mesc HCL tek slightly however to avoid pulling too much junk(non-mesc alkaloids). The tek as written(5 ml 10% HCL to 25 Ml water) results in a salting PH of 1.50 and thats way too low!!!
The ideal PH where all the mesc hcl comes out is 6.6-7.0
To get a PH of 6.6-7.0 simply add 8 drops of 10% HCL to 200 Ml water. I use 100 ML of this HCL-water per 300 Ml D-Limo pull and salt 3 times per pull...this results in a nice tan to off white crystaly powder.
In addition I do not use any heat to dry. I just put hcl-water in large glass baking dish and point fan at it till it ripples and let evap 2 or three days.
To get clean mesc wash 1 gram mesc-HCL with FREEZING COLD 20 ML ANHYDROUS Acetone TWICE...or to get ultimate purity recrystalize with hot acetone and freeze precipitate...(The Acetone should NOT be anhydrous to do this...you will need the little bit of water in it to dissolve the mesc...)
To get Anhydrous acetone I use epsom salts dried in the oven at 400 for 3 hours.I put 90 grams of chunks(Not powdered) in a Mason jar and add 16 OZ Acetone and shake a lot. Let sit for two days shaking often,filter twice with Buchner Funnel with three #100 Medium filter papers(Vacum Filtered) then put in coldest freezer for a couple days,then just suck what you need off top and use.
NOTE:Make sure you use a piece of aluminum foil between Mason jar lid and Glass jar or Rubber seal will get melted from Acetone!!!
Here are some pics:
The largest pile is reddish brown and Very Crunchy and was salted from my first pull of D-limo with 69rons suggestion of 5ml 10% HCL added to 25 ML Water per 300 Ml d-limo. as you can see it pulled a lot of junk from the limo and has way too much hcl acid Oxidation(Redish-Brown Color).(I salted 600 ML d-limo 4 times using 60ml hcl water each time)
The smallest pile is a little waxy and was salted from my second pull using 9 drops 10% HCL added to 200Ml water/added to 600 ml d-limo. It was scraped from the center of the evap dish(I did 4 salts of 600 ml d-limo using 200 ml hcl water for each salt)
The middle sized pile is also a little waxy and was from the same pull but was scraped from the outer edges and is a little less clean.
After I mixed the torch with the pickling lime and added water it was a PH of 12.85
I added limo which was a PH of 9.68 before adding to torch/lime mixture.
After I salted with ron69s suggestion(5 ml 10% hcl added to 25ml water) my hcl water went from a starting PH of 0.50 to a PH of 1.5 pulling tons of junk(Non-Mesc Alkaloids)and also gave me a very thick emulsion problem!!!(I had to sit the jar with HCL Water in a hot water bath for an hour to break the emulsion!!)
After I salted with the 9 drops 10% hcl per 200 ml Water my hcl water went from a starting PH of 3.00 to a PH of 6.00 which was still a little low so I changed to 7-8 drops 10% hcl per 200 ml water toacheive the 6.6-7.0 range I was aiming for...
I will be washing the large pile with FREEZING COLD ANHYDROUS ACETONE Twice to clean it up. The smaller piles I may just leave that way as they look pretty clean and I want to try them as is to see how different they feel from the cleaned stuff.
Oh and I started with 450 grams P Torch Powder in case anyones interested. I did not weigh the Mesc HCL salts yet but will before cleaning and after and post results.
I stiil have at least one more pull and salt from the torch...I soaked it for 24 hours in d-limo before each pull but it got a little pasty and I am having a hard time recovering all my limo even with a french press!!
I am going to add 7 or 8 tablespoons of WASHING SODA (NOT Baking Soda!!!) which should release all the trapped D-Limo from the limo saturated P Torch Powder...
TO MAKE WASHING SODA:
1.Pour sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) onto a non-aluminum pan or oven-safe dish.
2.Place in the oven at 400ºF (205ºC) for one hour to release CO2.
3.The resulting material should have lost around third of the original weight. It will be of a slightly less powdery consistency, closer to sugar than flour.
The piles pictured are all sitting in a pie plate in a tupperware container filled with damp-rid and tightly sealed to really dry it out 100% and keep moisture from getting at it as I heard Mesc HCL is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air. I am going to gel cap it for storage after its cleaned and re-dryed.
I would adjust the Mesc HCL tek slightly however to avoid pulling too much junk(non-mesc alkaloids). The tek as written(5 ml 10% HCL to 25 Ml water) results in a salting PH of 1.50 and thats way too low!!!
The ideal PH where all the mesc hcl comes out is 6.6-7.0
To get a PH of 6.6-7.0 simply add 8 drops of 10% HCL to 200 Ml water. I use 100 ML of this HCL-water per 300 Ml D-Limo pull and salt 3 times per pull...this results in a nice tan to off white crystaly powder.
In addition I do not use any heat to dry. I just put hcl-water in large glass baking dish and point fan at it till it ripples and let evap 2 or three days.
To get clean mesc wash 1 gram mesc-HCL with FREEZING COLD 20 ML ANHYDROUS Acetone TWICE...or to get ultimate purity recrystalize with hot acetone and freeze precipitate...(The Acetone should NOT be anhydrous to do this...you will need the little bit of water in it to dissolve the mesc...)
To get Anhydrous acetone I use epsom salts dried in the oven at 400 for 3 hours.I put 90 grams of chunks(Not powdered) in a Mason jar and add 16 OZ Acetone and shake a lot. Let sit for two days shaking often,filter twice with Buchner Funnel with three #100 Medium filter papers(Vacum Filtered) then put in coldest freezer for a couple days,then just suck what you need off top and use.
NOTE:Make sure you use a piece of aluminum foil between Mason jar lid and Glass jar or Rubber seal will get melted from Acetone!!!
Here are some pics:
The largest pile is reddish brown and Very Crunchy and was salted from my first pull of D-limo with 69rons suggestion of 5ml 10% HCL added to 25 ML Water per 300 Ml d-limo. as you can see it pulled a lot of junk from the limo and has way too much hcl acid Oxidation(Redish-Brown Color).(I salted 600 ML d-limo 4 times using 60ml hcl water each time)
The smallest pile is a little waxy and was salted from my second pull using 9 drops 10% HCL added to 200Ml water/added to 600 ml d-limo. It was scraped from the center of the evap dish(I did 4 salts of 600 ml d-limo using 200 ml hcl water for each salt)
The middle sized pile is also a little waxy and was from the same pull but was scraped from the outer edges and is a little less clean.
After I mixed the torch with the pickling lime and added water it was a PH of 12.85
I added limo which was a PH of 9.68 before adding to torch/lime mixture.
After I salted with ron69s suggestion(5 ml 10% hcl added to 25ml water) my hcl water went from a starting PH of 0.50 to a PH of 1.5 pulling tons of junk(Non-Mesc Alkaloids)and also gave me a very thick emulsion problem!!!(I had to sit the jar with HCL Water in a hot water bath for an hour to break the emulsion!!)
After I salted with the 9 drops 10% hcl per 200 ml Water my hcl water went from a starting PH of 3.00 to a PH of 6.00 which was still a little low so I changed to 7-8 drops 10% hcl per 200 ml water toacheive the 6.6-7.0 range I was aiming for...
I will be washing the large pile with FREEZING COLD ANHYDROUS ACETONE Twice to clean it up. The smaller piles I may just leave that way as they look pretty clean and I want to try them as is to see how different they feel from the cleaned stuff.
Oh and I started with 450 grams P Torch Powder in case anyones interested. I did not weigh the Mesc HCL salts yet but will before cleaning and after and post results.
I stiil have at least one more pull and salt from the torch...I soaked it for 24 hours in d-limo before each pull but it got a little pasty and I am having a hard time recovering all my limo even with a french press!!
I am going to add 7 or 8 tablespoons of WASHING SODA (NOT Baking Soda!!!) which should release all the trapped D-Limo from the limo saturated P Torch Powder...
TO MAKE WASHING SODA:
1.Pour sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) onto a non-aluminum pan or oven-safe dish.
2.Place in the oven at 400ºF (205ºC) for one hour to release CO2.
3.The resulting material should have lost around third of the original weight. It will be of a slightly less powdery consistency, closer to sugar than flour.
The piles pictured are all sitting in a pie plate in a tupperware container filled with damp-rid and tightly sealed to really dry it out 100% and keep moisture from getting at it as I heard Mesc HCL is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air. I am going to gel cap it for storage after its cleaned and re-dryed.
Attachments
futura said:
???
2% did just fine. junk was washed away succesfully.*
i am assuming the guy from the 69ron tek did some calculations and the 2% is chosen for a reason. In some other thread someone (benzyme?) speaks about the pKa...
And wouldnt a higher pH pull more junk? You say you would adjust the tek to avoid pulling of junk.
But then you say a pH 0.5 (how did you measure?) is too low..? No offence but i dont get it. could be me.
* So the junk was washed away. This is how i do it. Im very interested in how you do it.
2x 99% acetone 10ml, 2x 99% IPA 10ml:
> mini shotglass + dirty mescaline-HCl ('grey/brown, crystal shards' pulled from 100g dried, green flesh of SP)
> add 15ml roomtemperature 99% acetone. use small wooden stick to break up dirty mescaline in acetone. swirl.
> put in freezer for 15min
> CAREFULLY take out of freezer. DO NOT disturb the powder at the bottom.
> use dropper to suck off about 10ml acetone. work fast! but DO NOT disturb the powder at the bottom. and dont overdo it. you can leave some acetone for the next wash.
> add 10ml roomtemperature 99% acetone. swirl.
> put in freezer for 15min
> CAREFULLY take out of freezer. DO NOT disturb the powder at the bottom.
> use dropper to suck off about 10ml acetone. work fast! but DO NOT disturb the powder at the bottom.
> leave to evap most of remaining ~5ml acetone.
> repeat with IPA
Both acetone and IPA at room temperature were added. And then put into the freezer for the solids to settle and the temperature (and solubility) to drop. Most of the junk (tan, color) dissolved in the IPA, that is why the product was washed twice in IPA.
In between washes (acetone-acetone and acetone-IPA) the product was not left to dry. Only after the final IPA wash the product was left to completely dry. As i have understood it is important to dry not more than necessary. Because of oxidation and stuff?
No Virola, what he is saying is that a too low pH in the HCl salting will pull more unwanted non-active stuff together with the actives. If one maintains a less acidic pH, it will still pull the actives but not as much of the junk.
futura
Rising Star
FREEZZING COLD ACETONE and FREEZING COLD IPA Works Better. It absorbs less Mesc HCL the colder it is. I also put wash container back in freezer after washing to let particles settle but make sure its covered tightly so water cant get in from condensation.Virola78 said:
I cant get 99% IPA so I dry what I can get(91%) and also I think all store bought acetone has some water in it so I dry that as well.
As I read the Tek in the Wiki it calls for 10% and not 2%. At 5 ml 10% to 25ML water it produces a salting water PH of 1.5 after adding to d-limo which is way too low and pulls a lot of non-mesc alkaloids.
If you add 7-8 drops 10% HCL to 200 ML water it gives a salting PH of 6.6-7.0 after adding to d-limo which is perfect for the pursest and most Mesc HCL to salt out.!! All Mesc HCL salts out at a PH of around 5.4-6.0 but for the little bit extra you get a lot of extra juink so PH of 6.6-7.0 is ideal.
w0mbat
Rising Star
Fiashly said:
Hey Fiashly,
Dunno if you've already done something with your yield, but if you're still deciding what to do, here's my $0.02: I believe mescaline acetate is more soluble in water than lime. Thus if you dissolve your second product in about 100 mL of water, that should get all of the mescaline and only about 0.17 g lime (b/c the solubility of lime in water is 0.173 g/100 mL at room temperature - at least according to wikipedia). Then, run it through a filter and remove the remaining solid. Evap the filtered water and you should have a somewhat more pure final product. There will still be some lime in there, but you'll have a good idea of how much lime - and will therefore be able to adjust dosages accordingly.
Best of all, you were smart enough to use food-grade reagents, so even if you don't try to purify it at all, you should be fine if you take it.
For the future, I'd recommend using food-grade NaOH or KOH. They just seem to be more reliable.
I hope all this makes sense, my sleeping meds are starting to kick in. Good luck!
futura said:
I see now. And i will keep this and some other threads in mind when the damn monkey wants to extract some more...
btw i used the acetone and IPA at room temerature because i figured not only mescaline but also the unwanted alkaloids will dissolve better in a warm(er) solution. So my aim was to maximize solution of the unwanted alkaloids... like when they use warm MEK for recrystalization. When the temperature drops (freezer) the mescaline-HCl will precipitate anyway..
