Alright, thank you!
I've ordered the stuff and I'll most likely contribute some data as soon as it arrives.
I've ordered the stuff and I'll most likely contribute some data as soon as it arrives.
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Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
69Ron's "Triple E" Tech for Elemicin Extraction from Elemi Oil
- Thread starter 69ron
- Start date
69ron
Rising Star
endlessness said:
Elemicin is apparently more well known in China as a hallucinogen. The Chinese chemical companies that offer pure elemicin state very clearly that it's hallucinogenic. Also, all of the oils that contain elemicin in sufficient quantities are also hallucinogenic. So there’s little question about it being an active hallucinogen. Like bufotenine, it’s just not that well known.
This is from a Chinese chemical supplier’s description of elemicin
There are very clearly stating it's hallucinogenic.
well that automatic google translate or funny chinese translating from the suppliers description already makes me wonder if they are really expressing what we think they are.
Then there is the fact that 'hallucinations' is a way too broad term that doesnt necessarily mean psychedelic, it can be a term also used for delirants and so on (and the term 'slight' is very peculiar too)
Lastly, even if it was psychedelic that they meant, just because some chinese supplier says its psychedelic is not good enough source IMO for proving that the plant's effects are de facto psychedelic.
Im not saying it is not psychedelic, and as you saw I already added Elemicin to the WIKI. But what I am saying is that its important to be critical and that one or two anecdotal reports (with all due respect, given its you) and a bad translation in a chinese supplier store is not the strongest of evidences. But at least its interesting and worth to put in the info we have and worth to research more
Question. What is elemicin classified as? Its not an alkaloid, so what is it? A phenolic compound? What is the right classification for it?
Then there is the fact that 'hallucinations' is a way too broad term that doesnt necessarily mean psychedelic, it can be a term also used for delirants and so on (and the term 'slight' is very peculiar too)
Lastly, even if it was psychedelic that they meant, just because some chinese supplier says its psychedelic is not good enough source IMO for proving that the plant's effects are de facto psychedelic.
Im not saying it is not psychedelic, and as you saw I already added Elemicin to the WIKI. But what I am saying is that its important to be critical and that one or two anecdotal reports (with all due respect, given its you) and a bad translation in a chinese supplier store is not the strongest of evidences. But at least its interesting and worth to put in the info we have and worth to research more
Question. What is elemicin classified as? Its not an alkaloid, so what is it? A phenolic compound? What is the right classification for it?
69ron
Rising Star
Honestly, I don’t see where the skepticism comes from. Many on this forum have tried elemi oil at low doses and found it to be mildly psychedelic. Even The Traveler tried it and found it produced some visual effects. The only psychoactive in elemi oil is elemicin.
Endlessness, I can prove it’s a hallucinogen without a doubt. Buy some and ingest it. It’s 100% legal. It’s not like bufotenine, in that it works very well for everyone SWIM knows who’s tried it. The effects are unmistakable, similar to LSD and mescaline, but not as visual or mental as either.
SWIM has a friend who works at a drug manufacturing company and she has recently obtained a pure elemicin sample from one of those suppliers in China and given it to a dozen people at a party. It is very clearly hallucinogenic according to all the people who’ve tried it. It’s not like only a certain percentage got effects from it. Everyone did. So this is not controversial like bufotenine, where it doesn’t seem to work well in some people. Everyone says it works. Now these are people SWIM knows, and so I don’t expect you to take what I’m saying as fact until you try it yourself.
Endlessness, we also have another member on this forum who says he’ll also be trying pure elemicin soon. He’ll be able to give you confirmation on this I’m sure. But until you try it yourself, how can you be sure we’re not full of shit?
As for getting pure elemicin, SWIM tried and can’t get it, but his friend can easily get it because of where she works. If you work at a drug, flavor or perfume manufacturing company, it’s a simple matter of ordering a sample.
Endlessness, I can prove it’s a hallucinogen without a doubt. Buy some and ingest it. It’s 100% legal. It’s not like bufotenine, in that it works very well for everyone SWIM knows who’s tried it. The effects are unmistakable, similar to LSD and mescaline, but not as visual or mental as either.
SWIM has a friend who works at a drug manufacturing company and she has recently obtained a pure elemicin sample from one of those suppliers in China and given it to a dozen people at a party. It is very clearly hallucinogenic according to all the people who’ve tried it. It’s not like only a certain percentage got effects from it. Everyone did. So this is not controversial like bufotenine, where it doesn’t seem to work well in some people. Everyone says it works. Now these are people SWIM knows, and so I don’t expect you to take what I’m saying as fact until you try it yourself.
Endlessness, we also have another member on this forum who says he’ll also be trying pure elemicin soon. He’ll be able to give you confirmation on this I’m sure. But until you try it yourself, how can you be sure we’re not full of shit?
As for getting pure elemicin, SWIM tried and can’t get it, but his friend can easily get it because of where she works. If you work at a drug, flavor or perfume manufacturing company, it’s a simple matter of ordering a sample.
(Oops sorry for posting this in a wrong thread, I just read the last post and was going on about elmemicin, mods, please forgive my distractiveness !)
69ron, SWIM got some elemi resin at home (the one you distill to make stem distilled essential oil), he'd like to try it, but what dosage should he do ?
69ron said:
69ron, SWIM got some elemi resin at home (the one you distill to make stem distilled essential oil), he'd like to try it, but what dosage should he do ?
69ron
Rising Star
rOm said:
I'm sorry rOm, I have no idea. The resin is much lower in elemicin than the oil is. But I have no idea how much it actually contains. I haven't seen any studies concerning the resin and it's elemicin content.
We should talk about this in one of the elemi threads. Maybe someone else knows.
69ron said:
Youre right ron, I will try it sometime when im back from vacations and will post here about it
Hope you dont mind I moved the posts to the elemicin threadKeep on researching
69ron
Rising Star
Yes, the dose given out was about 20 mg of 91% pure elemicin oil per capsule. Some people took 2 capsules, most took 1.
There was a pretty big variance in effectiveness from person to person, but everyone who tried it said it was definitely “psychedelic” or “trippy”. It was being compared to LSD and MDMA by people experienced with such things. Keep in mind that this group of people was not really into psychedelics much, so they didn’t have much to compare it to other than LSD, MDMA and shrooms.
One girl said it was like ecstasy, but much more “trippy”, and without “the love”. When asked about visual effects, she had no idea what visual effects were. She never used anything other than MDMA and pot. When asked if it affected her vision at all, she said that things looked sort of different, sort of “animated” and “sparkly”. She took 1 capsule.
One of the guys who was a little experienced with LSD but more experienced with MDMA said it was more like LSD than MDMA. But he could tell it was not LSD or MDMA. When asked about visuals, he said he had visual effects and they were like LSD visuals but also different, less intense. He took 1 I believe.
Another person said he felt body tension from it, and got pretty strong visual effects, and almost a migraine like effect on his vision, and things looked like they were “flashing” and looked “watery”. He said it felt like a mix between MDMA and LSD, but with a strong body high and a tense feeling all over. He took 2. This is the only person who complained of body tension.
Another older guy who used LSD a lot in the 60’s said that he felt this drug before. He said he and a few others back in the 60’s got some strange “liquid gel caps” of “LSD” and they were exactly like the stuff he had at the party. He said he could very easily tell it wasn’t LSD. It “lacked the ultimate magic of acid”, but was still “psychedelic with a nice body glow”. I don’t remember how many this guy took. I think it was 2. He never tried any psychedelics other than LSD, so he couldn’t compare it to anything else. I was hoping he had tried peyote at least, but no such luck.
One guy got extremely hyper from it and could not sit still and became a little paranoid for a while. He said it came on really fast, just a few minutes after taking it, and made him feel nervous that he took too much, and he got a little “spooked out” because he kept seeing flashes of faces in moving patterns on the walls. He had never taken any psychedelic before and was a little freaked out by it. This guy took 1 capsule.
Another girl took 2 capsules and hardly got any effects from it. She said it had very mild visuals like a tiny dose of shrooms, but it felt nothing at all like shrooms, and was more like a strong cup of coffee. She had never tried LSD, only pot and shrooms, so she had little to compare it to.
There were many others there with similar comments. The fact that no one said it was like mescaline is because no one at the party had ever had mescaline before, so that doesn’t mean much.
At least 1 person got side effects that I’m aware of, and that was body tension.
As far as dosage, 1 capsule did almost nothing for a few people, while a few others got very strong effects from 1 capsule. So apparently either individual sensitivity to it varies a lot, or the person who measured the doses didn’t do an accurate job.
Parties are not the best places to do these kinds of things, and I personally think it was a little irresponsible to have such a thing as elemicin given out at a party like that. They were all however informed about it ahead of time and knew it was pretty much an RC with unknown risks involved.
I think 20 mg is too much for first time users. Some people got 40 mg. I think not more than 5 mg should be used for a first time. The fact that one guy at the party almost freaked out from 20 mg, is not at all good.
The girl who decided on the dosage had used it herself prior to giving it out and thought if less than 20 mg was used, people wouldn’t feel it. She determined that 20 mg was the minimum amount needed to feel it. She was apparently wrong.
There was a pretty big variance in effectiveness from person to person, but everyone who tried it said it was definitely “psychedelic” or “trippy”. It was being compared to LSD and MDMA by people experienced with such things. Keep in mind that this group of people was not really into psychedelics much, so they didn’t have much to compare it to other than LSD, MDMA and shrooms.
One girl said it was like ecstasy, but much more “trippy”, and without “the love”. When asked about visual effects, she had no idea what visual effects were. She never used anything other than MDMA and pot. When asked if it affected her vision at all, she said that things looked sort of different, sort of “animated” and “sparkly”. She took 1 capsule.
One of the guys who was a little experienced with LSD but more experienced with MDMA said it was more like LSD than MDMA. But he could tell it was not LSD or MDMA. When asked about visuals, he said he had visual effects and they were like LSD visuals but also different, less intense. He took 1 I believe.
Another person said he felt body tension from it, and got pretty strong visual effects, and almost a migraine like effect on his vision, and things looked like they were “flashing” and looked “watery”. He said it felt like a mix between MDMA and LSD, but with a strong body high and a tense feeling all over. He took 2. This is the only person who complained of body tension.
Another older guy who used LSD a lot in the 60’s said that he felt this drug before. He said he and a few others back in the 60’s got some strange “liquid gel caps” of “LSD” and they were exactly like the stuff he had at the party. He said he could very easily tell it wasn’t LSD. It “lacked the ultimate magic of acid”, but was still “psychedelic with a nice body glow”. I don’t remember how many this guy took. I think it was 2. He never tried any psychedelics other than LSD, so he couldn’t compare it to anything else. I was hoping he had tried peyote at least, but no such luck.
One guy got extremely hyper from it and could not sit still and became a little paranoid for a while. He said it came on really fast, just a few minutes after taking it, and made him feel nervous that he took too much, and he got a little “spooked out” because he kept seeing flashes of faces in moving patterns on the walls. He had never taken any psychedelic before and was a little freaked out by it. This guy took 1 capsule.
Another girl took 2 capsules and hardly got any effects from it. She said it had very mild visuals like a tiny dose of shrooms, but it felt nothing at all like shrooms, and was more like a strong cup of coffee. She had never tried LSD, only pot and shrooms, so she had little to compare it to.
There were many others there with similar comments. The fact that no one said it was like mescaline is because no one at the party had ever had mescaline before, so that doesn’t mean much.
At least 1 person got side effects that I’m aware of, and that was body tension.
As far as dosage, 1 capsule did almost nothing for a few people, while a few others got very strong effects from 1 capsule. So apparently either individual sensitivity to it varies a lot, or the person who measured the doses didn’t do an accurate job.
Parties are not the best places to do these kinds of things, and I personally think it was a little irresponsible to have such a thing as elemicin given out at a party like that. They were all however informed about it ahead of time and knew it was pretty much an RC with unknown risks involved.
I think 20 mg is too much for first time users. Some people got 40 mg. I think not more than 5 mg should be used for a first time. The fact that one guy at the party almost freaked out from 20 mg, is not at all good.
The girl who decided on the dosage had used it herself prior to giving it out and thought if less than 20 mg was used, people wouldn’t feel it. She determined that 20 mg was the minimum amount needed to feel it. She was apparently wrong.
Ok, I tried the tek and took the equivalent of 4 drops. I noticed it almost immediatly after swallowing, it took no longer than 5 minutes to feel it. After 1-2 hours i felt a prickling sensation on my head and some slight nausea. It was stimulating at first but now i feel tired and not so well. It also seems to be the cause for some bronchoconstriction, having difficult times to breathe, but nothing danngerous yet, i think.
But i can say that its definatly active. Not sure if psychedelic but i feel likee im coming up on something...
But i can say that its definatly active. Not sure if psychedelic but i feel likee im coming up on something...
69ron
Rising Star
obliguhl said:
Prickling, nausea, from such a low dose? Could that be caused by a bad reaction to DMSO?
You shouldn’t feel tired or sedated at all. I wonder if this is the oil you have or the DMSO causing this. Have you ever used DMSO on its own before?
IS YOUR DMSO 30% WATER OR PURE DMSO?
imPsimon said:
Hmm…SWIM has not felt bronchoconstriction at all even at pretty high doses. One thing though, he drinks coffee with it and that’s a mild bronchodilator, and also SWIM has been using the same exact bottle of oil for quite a while now. He recently ordered some more. It’s a different brand. He’ll see if that makes any difference. There are more than a dozen compounds in the oil. Maybe some oil is just too high in other junk to be of much use? I think the bottle of elemi oil SWIM has been using must be high in elemicin and that’s why his tests are so positive. I think he maybe got lucky with his purchase.
At a party, one guy who took pure elemicin felt tension in his body, but no one else did. That indicates it causes some vasoconstriction. Another person in another thread mentioned getting slight muscle cramping the day following oil usage, like that sometimes felt from HBWR, and that also indicates some vasoconstriction is happening. Passionflower would be very good for alleviating vasoconstriction, especially cramping.
SWIM get’s very noticeable bronchoconstriction from the LSH found in HBWR, but never from his elemi oil. The bronchoconstriction from the LSH is pretty strong and a little scary.
Chocolate is good for easing bronchoconstriction because it contains theobromine. Passionflower relieves relaxes muscles in general.
I’ve been reading some other forums of people trying elemi oil, and their results mirror the ones on this forum. Some are like SWIM and love the stuff. Others are complaining of side effect mostly. This cleanup step in this thread works wonders for SWIM’s oil, but maybe it will not be so effective with other oils out there. It all depends on what gets extracted into the DMSO. There are many other compounds present in the oil that are active that would be extracted into the DMSO unfortuantley.
It seems like only a certain percentage of people are getting good effects from elemi oil. My gut feeling is that some batches of oil are just too low in elemicin to be of use, and taking more is just causing side effects from the other compounds present.
I havn't tried DMSO on its own, no. Its 99,5% DMSO but I've added some water to it during the extraction process and drank the result with lots of water. Nausea was very low and could have been due to other things. It was definatly euphoric at first and i experienced some kind of body high. A little wobbly but mostly heavy, like mushrooms, but not so jumpy and lightweightish. I think i can't really judge the oil yet with a low dose of 4 drops. Mine is also fabricated in the philipines and says therapeutic grade. It tastes strongly like nutmeg.
imPsimon
Rising Star
This last time I tried it I got some new oil from FV and it was pretty consistent to what
I had from my previous tries. Maybe a little less sedative.
Next time I will sacrifice some good mood for a cup of coffee to see if it gets better.
At what time do you ingest the coffee?
I do get good effects but that heavy breathing is quite bothersome and quite
distracting.
I had from my previous tries. Maybe a little less sedative.
Next time I will sacrifice some good mood for a cup of coffee to see if it gets better.
At what time do you ingest the coffee?
I do get good effects but that heavy breathing is quite bothersome and quite
distracting.
69ron
Rising Star
obliguhl said:
Obliguhl, make sure you read the DMSO label very carefully. My bottle says 99.9% DMSO in very big letters on the front, and then in really tiny letters on the back it says it’s 30% water. It’s sort of false advertising if you ask me. I was pissed when I first found out it contained water. I thought it was pure DMSO for a long time. And then one day after finding it didn’t work properly for a certain tech, I read it thoroughly and found it wasn’t actually pure DMSO, but was mixed with water. Anyway, so that’s why I asked. Some DMSO labels are very misleading.
In order to duplicate the tech using 99% DMSO instead of the kind diluted with 30% water, you need to add 30% water to it of course. SWIM’s DMSO is 30% water. So you’d simply mix 70 ml of DMSO with 30 ml of water. I assume you already know that and that’s what you did.
SWIM never tried drinking the results with extra water though. So far with the pure oil, he’s had bad experiences using in it water. That may effect how it gets absorbed into the body. Did any float to the top of the water?
If the oil tastes strongly of nutmeg and is made in the Philippines, then it’s probably got a lot of elemicin in it. But it could still have a lot of other junk too.
SWIM’s experience with elemi oil and this tech is all based on one single bottle of oil. So this is all really new ground for SWIM. It’s possible SWIM’s next bottle of oil will be a dud. We’ll see. SWIM’s next experience will be with his new bottle of oil.
69ron
Rising Star
imPsimon said:
SWIM drinks the coffee as soon as the effects kick in.
I’m inclined to believe that brand means very little and that most likely all the batches from all the vendors will vary in elemicin content. If you look at the data on elemi oil, all of the data shows different levels of elemicin and many other compounds. It doesn’t look at all consistent to me. Levels range from 1-20% elemicin for elemi oil from the Philippines.
You have the same issue with nutmeg oil. It varies a lot.
imPsimon, did you ever try nutmeg oil? If so, did it also cause this effect on breathing for you? SWIM has not tried nutmeg oil yet.
The 10 ml bottle of elemi oil SWIM has been using is pretty much gone, there’s not enough for anymore testing. SWIM’s new bottle is unopened, also a 10 ml bottle, and this is from FV.
SWIM has tried 1 capsule of pure elemicin a friend got as a sample. This is very good, clean, but not much different from SWIM’s oil (after the DMSO extraction). SWIM’s friend got the oil as a free sample from a vendor in China. The price for the elemicin is SUPER EXPENSIVE. She will not be buying any more of it, and can’t get another free sample, unless another vendors is willing to give out a free sample. The price of the elemicin she said was about $1000 for 1 gram of elemicin! Holy crap! I’ve seen a place selling it for about $400 for 1 gram, $1000 for 5 grams. Still, that’s a lot of money compared to the price of the oil. SWIM will be sticking with the oil.
narmz
Rising Star
I thought DMSO was icky and i didn't even put it in my mouth, i just let it absorb through my hand. You start to taste it in your mouth, you feel like your breath stinks, and it did make me feel kinda weird. I dunno, is it common practice to swallow DMSO? Would you run the risk of absorbing some not so nice stuff using DMSO, since it doesn't really screen out everything besides psychedelic drugs?
69ron
Rising Star
I know DMSO use is controversial. I never had issues with it, but others apparently do.
I don't seem to get any effects from DMSO at all. And if I put it on my hand, I don't taste it in my mouth. I know others claim this, but I never noticed it.
DMSO is taken as a supplement in 1-2 tsp doses daily by some people for years for various conditions. This used to be more popular before it was banned for use as a supplement. Right now, the FDA considers it a drug, not a supplement, but does allow you to use it as a solvent. Sellers can no longer advertise it's for use as a supplement like they once did.
The bottle used to say "Take 1-2 tsp daily", but no longer says this because of the ban. The ban itself is controversial.
If you have issues using DMSO orally, wait a bit. SWIM is working on another tech.
I don't seem to get any effects from DMSO at all. And if I put it on my hand, I don't taste it in my mouth. I know others claim this, but I never noticed it.
DMSO is taken as a supplement in 1-2 tsp doses daily by some people for years for various conditions. This used to be more popular before it was banned for use as a supplement. Right now, the FDA considers it a drug, not a supplement, but does allow you to use it as a solvent. Sellers can no longer advertise it's for use as a supplement like they once did.
The bottle used to say "Take 1-2 tsp daily", but no longer says this because of the ban. The ban itself is controversial.
If you have issues using DMSO orally, wait a bit. SWIM is working on another tech.
Yes, that's what i did. After not seeing the layers i added some more dmso to see if that would change anything. Could this have had a negative effect on the tek? I've had a hard time working precisely, fiddling with syringes and stuff.
I see no problem with DMSO. The tek is very simple...couldn't get more simple.