69Ron's "Triple E" Tech for Elemicin Extraction from Elemi Oil

[69ron]

In order to duplicate the tech using 99% DMSO instead of the kind diluted with 30% water, you need to add 30% water to it of course. SWIM’s DMSO is 30% water. So you’d simply mix 70 ml of DMSO with 30 ml of water. I assume you already know that and that’s what you did.

Yes, that's what i did. After not seeing the layers i added some more dmso to see if that would change anything. Could this have had a negative effect on the tek? I've had a hard time working precisely, fiddling with syringes and stuff.

I see no problem with DMSO. The tek is very simple...couldn't get more simple.

You should see two layers. The fact that you didn’t see layers form means something is wrong. I wonder what could cause this? Is your elemi oil clear like the DMSO?

Adding more DMSO will make the solvent mix less polar and it will dissolve more unwanted compounds. So it will affect it in a negative way. It all depends on how much you added. The fact that the sedative seemed to come through means to me that maybe too much DMSO was added, making the sedative soluble in the solvent mix. It’s all about polarity. If you add more water, the polarity goes up and the sedative is less soluble. Add too much water and then the elemicin is also less soluble. If you add more DMSO the polarity does down and the sedative is more soluble in the solvent mix.

The DMSO/Water mix needs to be exactly what’s in the tech, or it’s not going to give results exactly like what SWIM gets.

I think I need to post some pics. Next time SWIM does this tech he’s going to take pictures of all the steps so people can see exactly how it works.

 

[obliguhl]

This most likely explains why i felt sedation! The oil is nearly as clear as the solvent, so this was a problem. I couldn't take all liquid into my pipette, so i had no seperation. What i was basically doing was sucking up the top layer only, so this was my fault. after aa couple of tries, i just sucked up the top layer, then the bottom layer and repeated that for 3-4 times until there was no more oil left.

I'm having very much trouble with measuring the right amount of liquids. I tried to convert the amount somehow to drops, but the drops from my pipette doesn't compare to the drops from the bottle. 0.5 ml oil wasn't 18 drops like you said, but more like 30. But maybe i was holding the syringe in a bad angle. I doon't know.

I need to measure:

10ml oil = x drops
10ml of water = x drops
10ml of DMSO = x drops

Always using the same pipette. Then I'll be able to perform the tek accurately. Maybe there is some stuff in the oil causing bronchoconstriction. So next try i'll double the dose, work more accurately and have chocolate and coffee handy. I did drink some and it seemed to help a little with breathing.

 

[69ron]

This most likely explains why i felt sedation! The oil is nearly as clear as the solvent, so this was a problem.

That’s different from SWIM’s oil. His oil is yellowish so it’s easy to see the two layers. Even after mixing, the DMSO is clear and the oil is yellowish. In your case using a UV light would really help a lot. After you mix the two layers, only the DMSO layer glows blue in UV light.

One thing that you might be able to do is add 1 drop of food coloring to the DMSO. Maybe the food coloring will dissolve in the DMSO and not the oil. It’s worth a shot.

I'm having very much trouble with measuring the right amount of liquids. I tried to convert the amount somehow to drops, but the drops from my pipette doesn't compare to the drops from the bottle. 0.5 ml oil wasn't 18 drops like you said, but more like 30. But maybe i was holding the syringe in a bad angle. I doon't know.

This is always a problem. Drop size varies by many factors. You’ll find the bottle drops are different than the pipette drops. In SWIM’s case the bottle drops are larger than the pipette drops. I try not to use drops anymore as a measure because of their inaccuracy.

SWIM is getting interested in trying nutmeg oil for the first time. He bought some but he’s a little apprehensive about trying it. I wonder if this tech will be good for nutmeg oil? In addition to elemicin, nutmeg oil has safrole and myristicin. Safrole is a sedative, but some say it does have very mild MDMA-like effects at very large doses. It might act as a modifier.

If this tech is used with nutmeg oil, the elemicin will be extracted for sure (it has an XlogP3 of 2.5), but myristicin is less polar (with an XLogP of 3), and so it might not be extracted well enough (my guess is that it will mostly float on top of the DMSO/water mix). Safrole has an XLogP of 3.1, so it’s even less polar than myristicin. So it’s possible this tech would only extract elemicin and other junk from nutmeg oil. But because of the other compounds present, it’s likely to have somewhat different effects even without myristicin or safrole.

 

[q21q21]

SWIM finally got his oil in. He's going to try it tonight with the DMSO which he doesn't mind too much consuming it.

He's already mixed the 2 and the layers a very apparent. He's just going to us a dropper to separate the layers, it's thin and even thinner at the bottom so it's pretty easy to get the separation.

He already did the tek and it is 10:20am

He's probably going to take it at 7pm tonight. It won't lose it's gusto, will it?

Edit: it was quite pretty, took a picture

Thats 5ml DMSO and 1ml elemi, super macro

 

[69ron]

q21q21, thanks for posting the pic. That's EXACTLY how it looks when SWIM does it. The top is slightly yellow and the bottom is clear.

It looks the same before and after mixing it vigorously for one minute. But under UV light it looks different. If you look at it under UV light, before mixing, the top yellow layer glows bluish green, but after mixing for a minute, and settling, the bottom layer glows bluish green and the top doesn't. Normally, you don't need UV light because the oil layer should be yellowish and clearly visible as a separate layer.

I'm excited to see how it goes for you. Hopefully you get a similar effect to what SWIM gets.

 

[1992]

So guys, how is this stuff? Has anyone thought about growing the elemi for future use? Steam distillation is not hard at all hahaha

 

[q21q21]

SWIM tried it and currently has a non-placebo buzz.
He took about .6ml worth of the DMSO then 1 hour later took the rest which was .4 worth.

It definitely has it's own character but it was not nearly high enough dose to tell anything clearly.


Looking forward to trying a higher dose.
Do you think he should try 1.5ml next time or do you think the re-dosing may have effected the strength. It really didn't seem to make it much stronger. Maybe try 1.0ml all at once?

Oh ya, EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW it's nasty! Definitely need something to cover it up besides water, lol. Even putting it in 5 gelcaps would be worth the effort.

 

[69ron]

HA HA HA! The taste is strong, like bitter nutmeg. I don’t mind the taste of nutmeg, but it this stuff is very STRONG tasting taken straight.

My advice is don't re-dose. Wait at least 2 days before trying again. Re-dosing doesn’t really work with elemi oil, at least not for SWIM.

 

[Dorge]

Elemicin is apparently more well known in China as a hallucinogen. The Chinese chemical companies that offer pure elemicin state very clearly that it's hallucinogenic. Also, all of the oils that contain elemicin in sufficient quantities are also hallucinogenic. So there’s little question about it being an active hallucinogen. Like bufotenine, it’s just not that well known.

This is from a Chinese chemical supplier’s description of elemicin

It is mainly used as antioxidant in anti-tumor effect. And it can permeate the blood-brain barrier to affect the cardiovascular. Meanwhile, it can be used to manufacture antibacterial synergist. It can stanch and as a kind of drug on nerve, it can cause a sense of slight hallucinations. So it is useful in the nerve synapses research.

There are very clearly stating it's hallucinogenic.

Ive seen that... I think the chinese know psychedelic amphetamines better then we...

 

[69ron]

Elemicin is apparently more well known in China as a hallucinogen. The Chinese chemical companies that offer pure elemicin state very clearly that it's hallucinogenic. Also, all of the oils that contain elemicin in sufficient quantities are also hallucinogenic. So there’s little question about it being an active hallucinogen. Like bufotenine, it’s just not that well known.

This is from a Chinese chemical supplier’s description of elemicin

It is mainly used as antioxidant in anti-tumor effect. And it can permeate the blood-brain barrier to affect the cardiovascular. Meanwhile, it can be used to manufacture antibacterial synergist. It can stanch and as a kind of drug on nerve, it can cause a sense of slight hallucinations. So it is useful in the nerve synapses research.

There are very clearly stating it's hallucinogenic.

Ive seen that... I think the chinese know psychedelic amphetamines better then we...

It’s funny. Elemicin has been sold as a psychedelic in China for a very long time. Why is it that I only heard about it recently? I have many books on psychedelics and NOT ONE talks about elemicin. And yet elemicin is present in nutmeg oil, elemi oil, and a few others, and is pretty easy to get.

Earlier today SWIM tried nutmeg oil for the very first time. He only used 0.25 ml of nutmeg oil, but it was enough for decent mild psychedelic effects. The onset was totally different from elemi oil, but after the peak the effects were nearly identical. The effects of nutmeg oil are very clearly caused by elemicin to a large degree, at least after the peak. The onset was like a completely different drug though. It was mentally psychedelic in a way SWIM has not experienced before from anything. He has nothing to relate it to.

Larger doses of the two oils will probably give very different effects as other compounds in the oils start becoming active, but at very low doses, the two oils are very much alike (except the first two hours which are completely different).

I’m surprised that elemicin remains so obscure. And I’m also surprised that more people don’t use nutmeg oil. At the dose used it was very pleasant, with no side effects at all. I’m sure as the dose increases side effects will become apparent. But at the dose tested, it’s a very decent experience worth repeating.

Once SWIM gets a better feel for whole nutmeg oil at larger doses, he’ll try the TripleE tech on it and see how it performs with nutmeg oil.

 

[narmz]

Couldn't ya just take the dmso layer with the elemicin dissolved in it, find a solvent that elemicin is insoluble in and is miscible with dmso (most are correct?) and just add an excess of that to crash out the majority of the elemicin?

 

[69ron]

Couldn't ya just take the dmso layer with the elemicin dissolved in it, find a solvent that elemicin is insoluble in and is miscible with dmso (most are correct?) and just add an excess of that to crash out the majority of the elemicin?

Yes, you should be able to do that with water. Elemicin is insoluble in water, and so adding enough water to the DMSO layer should cause the elemicin to float to the top. SWIM hasn’t tried this yet, but I’m sure it would work. Then you could maybe freeze the DMSO/Water, and then pour off the elemicin.



Also, there’s a tip I wanted to mention about this tech. Instead of using a pipette or other similar way of separating the oil from the DMSO layer, you can instead freeze the DMSO in the refrigerator (no need for a freezer, DMSO freezes in the refrigerator) and simply pour off the oil. That makes separation a snap!

 

[69ron]

Another thing I want to mention about this tech, and this also applies to elemi oil and nutmeg oil, and all other psychedelics:

SWIM IS EXTRA SENSITIVE TO PSYCHEDELICS. MOST OTHER PEOPLE REQUIRE 2-4 TIMES AS MUCH TO GET THE SAME EFFECTS. SO WHEN SWIM POSTS DOSAGE INFORMATION FOR SWIM YOU SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF THAT.

What I mean is that 0.5 ml of elemi oil is a decent experience for SWIM (after the Triple E cleanup), but most people will need 1-2 ml of oil to feel the same effects SWIM gets at 0.5 ml. This is a fact that SWIM keeps forgetting to mention. This is pretty universal for SWIM concerning psychedelics. SWIM’s brother needs 4 times as much to get roughly the same effects for nearly all psychedelics SWIM and his brother have tried, including elemi oil.

So while SWIM gets decent effects from 0.5 ml of elemi oil, his brother needs 2 ml for the same effects using the exact same bottle of oil.

 

[q21q21]

Ya, SWIM has noted that for sure.

He tried 1ml today and got mild, though non-placebo effects pretty much the same as last time.

He'll try 1.75ml next time and likely get a medium-strong experience.

He generally has a medium-high natural tolerance to psychedelics.

 

[69ron]

VERY IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ! THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH USING DMSO!

Some testing done has revealed a problem with using DMSO!

The test:

Group A - 3 people tested the DMSO extract as is
Group B - 3 people tested the DMSO extract diluted to 75% water.

All took the same dose.

The outcome

Group A and B had effects.

Group A experienced stimulation with far less psychedelic and euphoric effects, and the trip came on faster.

Group B experienced less stimulation and far more psychedelic and euphoric effects, and the trip took longer to come on.

Why is this happening?

DMSO causes the elemicin to bypass the digestive system. In testing, it was found that by diluting the DMSO extract many time with water, the experience produced was FAR SUPERIOR.

My theory is that elemicin requires transformation in the digestive system before it becomes fully active. By using concentrated DMSO, the elemicin is allowed to go right to your blood unaltered. It's been theorized in the past that before elemicin can become fully psychedelic, it must be tranformed into TMA in the digestive system. It seems like this is true according to these tests.

SWIM tried this on himself today and found it to be very much the case. The DMSO is affecting the experience negatively.

We need a tech that is either not DMSO based, or we need a way of removing the DMSO.

 

[Ginkgo]

or we need a way of removing the DMSO.

A few pulls with water to get the DMSO out would do. If elemicin isn't soluble in water, that is.

 

[69ron]

or we need a way of removing the DMSO.

A few pulls with water to get the DMSO out would do. If elemicin isn't soluble in water, that is.

It's been tried and it doesn't work. The elemicin stays in the DMSO/water mix, even when diluted with a whole cup of water!

SWIM tried diluting the DMSO to 75% water and then extracting with d-limonene. And guess what! IT DOESN'T WORK EITHER! The elemicin loves the DMSO and won't come out of it.

Apparently the solubility of elemicin is enough in the DMSO/water mix that it won't separate out. Maybe if the water is highly concentrated and without any DMSO in it, it might separate, but with the DMSO present, the elemicin stays in the mix. It does look cloudy like it's going to separate, but it never does. Well, maybe after several days it might separate. It was only given a few hours to separate and it never did and it didn't look like giving it more time was going to help. It stayed as a suspension in the liquid.


Using a 1 ml dose of oil extracted into 2 ml of DMSO and then dissolved in 1 cup of milk works really well. You can sweeten it and it tastes sort of like nutmeg. It's actually very nice tasting when sweetened. The DMSO flavor is too dilute to taste. SWIM just tried this after a friend said it works really well. It was SWIM's highest dose yet.

As the doses are increased, elemicin is proving to be very similar to the classic psychedelics. SWIM experienced mental psychedelic effects, very decent LSD-like visuals, lots of euphoria, mild stimulation, and that classic psychedelic trippyness was finally reached. SWIM was looking at objects and seeing them differently. At times the "sound of silence" was experienced. The perception of music was altered.

Again, SWIM is extra sensitive to psychedelics so his 1 ml dose is equivalent to a 2-4 ml dose for most other people.

 

[pau]

this tek is developing nicely! Thanks for all the research.
Does the elemi:MSO ratio still stand at 1::5? And, at around 18 drops (from a common dropper) per .5 ml?

 

[q21q21]

SWIM is about to try test #3

2ml extracted once with 10ml DMSO (just being consistant with tests 1 and 2)
Diluted in ~400ml mint tea w/ honey (sipped it, not terrible, but not the best combination)

WILL UPDATE!

 

[pau]

Amazing! Heard that SWIM's cousin just found some DMSO and will now recalibrate the experiment he was planning on doing. Rather than a 1to5 elemi-to-DMSO ratio, this guy will now try it at a 1to2 ratio. The big decision he has to make is: how to dilulte the DMSO portion afterwards with the modified tek? Milk actually has something in it to put one's digestive system to work, whereas things like tea and coffee are more like colored water that are not particularly demanding on the digestive system. Would it make more sense to use milk for this reason?