Acid cook solution (vinegar & water) ph problems

[SLiCeR]

Hi i just whent to do my acid cook and mixed 1 part vinegar to 3 parts water and then checked the ph it was at 3.0 so trying to get it to 4.0 stupidly i added more vinegar but then i thought vinegar is acidic which is low on the ph scale so in theory add more water right? I tried this and could only get it to 3.4 before using all my distilled water. My question is should i try less vinegar? I think i will just pour the solution out and start again coz when i try to add more water it takes to much to bring it up to 4.

Can anyone help me out here?

 

[acacian]

you could sprinkle just a little sodium bicarbonate in there (or sodium carbonate.. it'll just push it up a bit more) to knock it back up to slightly alkaline (prolly round ph 8 ) and then reacidify with vinegar.. or you keep adding water as you suggested, but if you've added a considerable amount of vinegar it'll take quite a lot. Do it sooner rather than later anyway to decrease any chance of degradation in the spice.

it only takes a very small drizzle of vinegar to push water down to ph 4. I always found 1 part vinegar to 3 parts water brought it down to too far to be honest.. sometimes i'd end up like ph 2.8 now i just add a touch and get much better results.

Also add the acid after you've added the water to the plant material, as the plant material is slightly acidic itself and will knock the ph down a bit too.

 

[endlessness]

Yes you can use a little sodium carb or bicarb to raise the pH, but add very slowly because it will bubble up.


but hey, if youre extracting DMT, pH 3 is just fine for the acid cook, why are you trying to be so exact with pH?

 

[3rdI]

if your making DMT that acidity will be fine, i have used just vinegar before, no water, and it came out fine. dont worry about it to much.

 

[SLiCeR]

Yes you can use a little sodium carb or bicarb to raise the pH, but add very slowly because it will bubble up.


but hey, if youre extracting DMT, pH 3 is just fine for the acid cook, why are you trying to be so exact with pH?

I only wanted it precise because i
Plan on leaving the acid cook overnight abd maybe a bit longer as i have
used branches, twigs, phylodes and a bit of bark and could only really grind the small amount of bark
up and the rest has been chopped into the smallest pieces i could by hand so i just thought i would leave the acid
cook for longer so it get as much as it could.

What are your thoughts
SLiCeR

 

[nen888]

..endlessness wrote:

but hey, if youre extracting DMT, pH 3 is just fine for the acid cook, why are you trying to be so exact with pH?

..i think this is because, in the case of some acacias too low a pH can cause what seem to be reaction products, or make the extraction go wrong by dissolving resins..below 3..
.

 

[endlessness]

A-ha, that's new to me, nen888... I mean, with mimosa yuremamine would also degrade but there seems to be nothing significant in the final product, and yuremamine would equally degrade in pH 4.... And if people are looking just for DMT, DMT wont degrade even at pH 2 or 1... What compounds in acacia could be degrading that one would prefer not to degrade? Do you not want degradation products because they are toxic, or because the original compounds are of interest?

So you say that below 3 resins dissolve, what does that mean, that final product is less pure? Can't a simple recrystallization take care of it?

SLiCeR, if all you want is DMT, you are safe having a low pH even if its long soak, maybe you'll just have to recrystallize/clean up more later... but mind you, nen has waaaay more experience with Acacia extractions so lets first wait for his answer before you decide what to do.

But yeah if you just want higher pH you can use a bit of base to raise the pH

 

[nen888]

^..i can only guess, endlessness, but after various observations and a lot of anecdotal stories it seems at some times of year in some species (maidenii, ob etc.) pH below 3 may 1) cause more beta-carbolines to be formed, and possibly other degradation products which lessen effectiveness of the extract..2) cause some kind of breakdown/change in the amphoteric resins (tars, comprising phenols and other things) which then do not allow the alkaloids to be extracted properly..
..from the quote i gave more of in Trying to improve Acacia information - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus:

On attempting to acidify, filter, and basify, considerable difficulty was experienced; the acidified residue seemed unfilterable, and when basified with NH3, a thick pink gel was formed which was impossible to extract.

..etc.
..due to the possibly seasonal changes in acacia chemistry (which is a little different to Mimosa), a more careful and cautious approach may need to be taken with pH levels, at both ends of the scale..
.

 

[endlessness]

Very interesting. We should try to get some samples of the "failed/wrong" attempts, see what is it thats in there. Any clue what times of the year it is that this happens?

 

[nen888]

^..indeed..note the above quoted example was not a failure in the end, it just required a lot of careful and very fine pH adjustment combined with filtering stages to sort it out..i've heard of a few 'odd' (apparently changed for worse) outcomes which were shelved..

 

[scott4836]

Yes you can use a little sodium carb or bicarb to raise the pH, but add very slowly because it will bubble up.


but hey, if youre extracting DMT, pH 3 is just fine for the acid cook, why are you trying to be so exact with pH?

I only wanted it precise because i
Plan on leaving the acid cook overnight abd maybe a bit longer as i have
used branches, twigs, phylodes and a bit of bark and could only really grind the small amount of bark
up and the rest has been chopped into the smallest pieces i could by hand so i just thought i would leave the acid
cook for longer so it get as much as it could.

What are your thoughts
SLiCeR

The information is very interesting. Now I'm interested in the properties of vinegar.

 

[SLiCeR]

Ok so i just actually tested the distilled water and the ph is 3.8 alone!!!
Is this right? i find it strange that the distilled water is so acidic already.

I literally only needed about like a splash of vinegar to get it to 4

I know my ph meter should be working coz i have a 4.0 buffer solution.

What do you guys rekon?